Quantcast
old double barrel questions - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Blackpowder Shooting

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 24, 2014, 09:36 PM   #1
firemanstrickland
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 18, 2011
Location: Central South Carolina
Posts: 381
old double barrel questions

hello all,
I need some info on an old double barrel and I have very limited information on it. All I know is its a Belgium 1892 Peiper arms company double barrel and I only have this one pic. Can anyone tell me anything about it? maybe possible values as well?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 10715780_1492527054336334_2041154475_n.jpg (97.6 KB, 56 views)
__________________
Everybody Goes Home
firemanstrickland is offline  
Old September 24, 2014, 09:59 PM   #2
Jim K
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 31, 2002
Posts: 15,258
Pieper made some of the better guns to come out of Belgium but I would consider that one a wall hanger. It looks to have Damascus barrels, and IMHO that eliminates it from shooting.

I have heard personally and have seen on the net statements to the effect that not only were Damascus guns safe with black powder, but that the barrels are stronger than modern steel barrels. I can only disagree, very strongly. I consider all Damascus, twist, laminate, or any built-up barrels as unsafe to fire. Period.

Jim
Jim K is online now  
Old September 24, 2014, 10:08 PM   #3
firemanstrickland
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 18, 2011
Location: Central South Carolina
Posts: 381
so is it a cartridge gun? or muzzle loader? it looks like it has nipples for caps but I honestly have no clue
__________________
Everybody Goes Home
firemanstrickland is offline  
Old September 24, 2014, 10:20 PM   #4
Jim K
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 31, 2002
Posts: 15,258
It is a cartridge gun, but without more and better pictures or information, I can't tell what gauge it is. The original proof marks, with the gauge and chamber length should be on the bottom of the barrels and can be seen when the barrels are removed.

Jim
Jim K is online now  
Old September 24, 2014, 10:32 PM   #5
zimmerstutzen
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 30, 2009
Location: banks of the Susquehanna
Posts: 921
I agree with Jim K about safety if it is indeed a damascas barrel. Belgian makers did use damascas barrels, but usually used drawn barrels and sometimes had a fake finish to look like damascas. Even back in the 1960's all the hunter safety instructors warned folks not to shoot high brass in a damascas or twist barrel.

I remember seeing a damascas barrel that had ruptured and looked like a frayed rope where it separated.
zimmerstutzen is offline  
Old September 24, 2014, 11:18 PM   #6
firemanstrickland
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 18, 2011
Location: Central South Carolina
Posts: 381
ok, thanks for the info, I will post more info and pics as I get them.
__________________
Everybody Goes Home
firemanstrickland is offline  
Old September 24, 2014, 11:37 PM   #7
rcmodel
Contributing Member
 
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Location: Eastern KS
Posts: 49,380
Quote:
Even back in the 1960's all the hunter safety instructors warned folks not to shoot high brass in a damascas or twist barrel.
I was a Hunter Safety Instructor in the 70's.

And High-Brass has nothing to do with it.

Shotgun pressure is about the same, whether low brass or high brass.
Low-Brass HV trap loads may produce just as much chamber pressure as 2 3/4" Magnums.

They use faster burning powder then heavy high-brass loads, and peak chamber pressure can easily be as much as the heaviest Magnum load.

Personally, I have known three people locally who lost fingers on their left hand when Damascus barrels let go right over where they had their hand holding the forearm.
One of them lost an eye.

I would not shoot smokeless powder loads in one on a bet!

rc
__________________
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Or all your primers in a glass jar!
rcmodel is offline  
Old September 25, 2014, 07:32 AM   #8
zimmerstutzen
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 30, 2009
Location: banks of the Susquehanna
Posts: 921
Re. Sounds logical just repeating what the PA hunter safety instructors drilled into us. My father worked for the game commission and taught the instructors. He has a collection of firearm failures that he used back then for demonstration of what could happen. Some scary stuff on the wall in his study.
zimmerstutzen is offline  
Old September 25, 2014, 08:01 AM   #9
Crawdad1
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 13, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,116
Here's some good information on the Pieper family of gunmakers of Belgium.

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...ies%20gb.htm#P

Looks like a replacement hammer, and the throw looks incorrect, the locks are missing pins or screws, I don't even know what's going with the wood behind the lock, but all in all the gun looks pretty well worn out.
Crawdad1 is offline  
Old September 25, 2014, 10:47 AM   #10
firemanstrickland
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 18, 2011
Location: Central South Carolina
Posts: 381
yeah, like I said I haven't even got my hands on it but I am really shying away from it. He only wants $50 bucks for it, that's my problem lol
__________________
Everybody Goes Home
firemanstrickland is offline  
Old September 25, 2014, 12:13 PM   #11
Curator
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 20, 2007
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
Posts: 858
From the looks of the picture, the left hammer has been replaced with a true percussion hammer. not the correct breech-loading hammer. No way this hammer could strike the firing pin. Parts for these guns are nearly non-existent.
Curator is offline  
Old September 25, 2014, 01:20 PM   #12
col.lemat
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Location: Lakewood, Ca
Posts: 377
Offer $25 then get $50 at a buy back
col.lemat is online now  
Old September 25, 2014, 06:24 PM   #13
Crawdad1
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 13, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
He only wants $50 bucks for it, that's my problem lol
Its not even worth that. I wouldn't take it even if he handed it to me, it's nothing but trouble.
Crawdad1 is offline  
Old September 26, 2014, 02:20 AM   #14
totallyeftup
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 26, 2014
Posts: 22
10 grains and a grease patch

I will try 10 grains with a paper barrel, we are talking about 3 firecrackers of pressure. Just keep your hands away from the barrel, or shoot it like these guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZaK7D4XVo8
totallyeftup is offline  
Old September 26, 2014, 08:50 AM   #15
Crawdad1
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 13, 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
I will try 10 grains with a paper barrel, we are talking about 3 firecrackers of pressure. Just keep your hands away from the barrel, or shoot it like these guys
What?????
Crawdad1 is offline  
Old September 26, 2014, 09:56 AM   #16
the Black Spot
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 10, 2010
Location: central arkansas
Posts: 348
It would take some tinkering to get the hammer to hit the firing pin. Then it would be a handload only propisition with a small load of 2f blackpowder, assuming it locked up well.

If he threw in the gun case and cat it would be a good deal!
the Black Spot is offline  
Old September 26, 2014, 08:08 PM   #17
Jim K
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 31, 2002
Posts: 15,258
FWIW, the problem with smokeless powder in Damascus barrels is not so much the chamber pressure, but the burning curve. Smokeless powder burns slower than black powder ("progressive burning") and maintains pressure further out in the barrel. Because BP pressure drops off quickly, most BP barrels thin down just before the end of the forearm, allowing the gun to be lighter at the front end and with more "whip" as the old timers used to say.

So smokeless powder pressures are still high at the point the barrels become thin, which is just where the shooter's off hand is usually placed. When the barrel lets go, it usually takes a couple of fingers along for the ride.

Add that to the fact that no matter how strong a Damascus barrel might have been when it was new (those who claim there is no danger always cite the fact that the barrels passed proof), years of corrosion eating into the welds will have weakened the barrels. I have sectioned a few old Damascus guns and found the interiors to be like dirty lace, in spite of nice exteriors and bores that looked clean and shiny.

Jim
Jim K is online now  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.