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Old August 21, 2014, 01:15 AM   #1
elhombreconnonombre
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Do you have bp-centric emergency/GetOutOfDodge bag?

I am considering it as I don't have any modern cartridge stuff.
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Old August 21, 2014, 04:06 AM   #2
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Unfortunately I see this being closed soon, as threads like this usually are. However this is the first I've seen use the idea of being centered around BP.
I know there's tons of Survivalist websites and Fora where they might be able to help you.
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Old August 21, 2014, 04:12 AM   #3
Skinny 1950
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There is currently a smokeless pistol powder shortage here in Canada which is getting close to an emergency so yes Black Powder seems to be viable option.
In before the lock.
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Old August 21, 2014, 04:14 AM   #4
elhombreconnonombre
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So are you saying the bp mods would close this thread and not use of bp equipment for home self defence?
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On patrol and cold camping tonight with Cap'n Yack and Flacco on the Pinta Trail under a Comanche Moon near Enchanted Rock...out of cell phone range

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Old August 21, 2014, 09:35 AM   #5
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There is a warning about The End of the World As we Know it threads on the non firearms weapons section, but not here, though the moderators do make calls as they see them..

If I had no smokeless pistolas I would consider a BP in the Family 72 hour bag. Our church encourages its members to have a bag packed with whatever our families might need if we have to be evacuated for a weather emergency or say a train derailment or forest fire etc.

They do not encourage packing a firearm.....but I do.

I would consider dropping a BP revolver in a vacuum sealed bag (some items n the bag are sealed that way for protection anyway...who wants a wet change of undies and socks?) and another bag for powder (either in a small flask or individual load tubes of some sort or a mint box of paper cartridges)and balls and a third padded bag for a cap loader. I might also consider dropping all of the above into a "Tupperware" TM type container if I had no access to a vacuum sealer. A holster might be nice.

While a tricked out semi auto and spare mags might be better than say a brass frame "fantasy" .44/1851, the BP revolver would be more comforting than a sharp stick and not prevent me from having one of my canes and/or Big Honking knives in addition to the BP revolver.

Notice my post is about a common 72 hour emergency and not TEOTWAWKI.

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Last edited by kBob; August 21, 2014 at 09:42 AM.
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Old August 21, 2014, 10:27 AM   #6
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Old August 21, 2014, 10:39 AM   #7
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Hillbilly,

Doesn't that give you a headache?

-kBob
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Old August 21, 2014, 11:15 AM   #8
hillbilly matt
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Please don't think that was aimed at you Kbob was not my intention, I love bp ,but these survivalist threads have been getting their grubby finger into everything for sometime now and nothing seems sacred and it's really starting to burn my biscuits.
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Old August 21, 2014, 11:27 AM   #9
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Double post

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Old August 21, 2014, 11:48 AM   #10
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I think a gun is appropriate in a bob/ghb/etc. if it is something you practice with regularly and can use well. People rarely meet that standard using modern guns and BP adds a level of difficulty.

I would actually like to see "survival" oriented BP guns on the market. I think a .32 patched ball flintlock take-down with an adjustable rail so you could pull the optics from another gun, mount it, and zero without having to adjust the scope (allowing the optic to be shared) would be cool. Especially with a speed loader system built into the stock.

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Old August 22, 2014, 09:29 AM   #11
elhombreconnonombre
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Never mind..mods can close this thread..dont want to get anybodys panties in a wad over a simple post. And keep in mind, most of the prepper types do it as a hobby, they just want to say they do it...just like any other hobby to be part of a "special" clique.

I guess I will go and put up A REALLY controversial post...the 167 yo tale of the unmarked civilian Colt Walkers. ;-)
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On patrol and cold camping tonight with Cap'n Yack and Flacco on the Pinta Trail under a Comanche Moon near Enchanted Rock...out of cell phone range

God Bless John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Errol Flynn, Randolph Scott, and Val Forgett Jr.

Last edited by elhombreconnonombre; August 22, 2014 at 10:25 AM.
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Old August 22, 2014, 01:04 PM   #12
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BP as a skill set

I would choose smokeless munications over BP in many,if not most instances. However, being able to make BP as a skill set could well be priceless. There are many study guides that would fit quit nicely in a travel bag. As I now am enjoying the H--l out of the success of making and being able to tailor BP to how I want to use it, I have begun to attempt to create it without making a purchase. BP has a myriad of use beyond propelling bits of lead. Trade alone makes it a valuable commodity. "Chance favors the prepared mind."
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Old August 22, 2014, 09:01 PM   #13
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It's just too much stuff. I've had relatives who have had to escape forest fires and whatnot and it's amazing how focused you get when you can only keep one carload of stuff.
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Old August 22, 2014, 11:45 PM   #14
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No.
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Old August 24, 2014, 05:34 PM   #15
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I second what Eljay mentioned; it's too much stuff. Plus, you have to worry about keeping your powder dry, and the fact that Italian repros, as much as I love them, just aren't up to the same level as a Ruger. You also don't want to bother with cap fragments tying up your gun. There are many reasons why BP firearms are for hobbyists.

I would just get a cartridge firearm. A Ruger single action, if that's what you're comfortable with. At the very least, get a conversion cylinder for you C'n'B revolver, with a box of ammo.

If you are simply unable to get or possess a modern firearm, then I would consider a tuned repro or Ruger Old Army.
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Old August 24, 2014, 11:24 PM   #16
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I keep my bp revolvers and equipment in a decent toolbox that I can grab and toss in the truck to go to bp shoots and competitions. All necessary stuff is in there except holsters and gunbelts.
I suppose you could call it a b.o.b. if you want.
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Old August 28, 2014, 09:23 AM   #17
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You folks may want to look at this from a different theoretical angle...

For SD in a survival scenario, aka a "bugout", no you wouldn't want black powder, all things being equal. You'd want to save your cartridge guns and ammunition for that. If you don't own any... you need to have a pump shotgun, 12 gauge, at least. (imho)

If you are talking a few months of the grid being down, say for no more than 12 months, 24 at the outside, then again, no on BP for SD. BP would be viable to deter folks on the edges of your territory from venturing into your area, especially if they don't have a cartridge gun or they have limited ammunition, for if the inexpensive BP rifle doesn't persuade them to go away, you then could up-gun to your modern rifle which you have safely stashed.

However, if one is talking the fall of civilization, the choice for hunting would be between bow and BP while hording your modern ammo and rifle, if you are thinking using deer or other mamals as your prime protein source. For birds, then you'd want to use a bow, and shoot them on the ground... birdshot shells are very inefficient compared to the amount of meat you get.

The next thing would be the noise. If you weren't part of a community, loose knit or perhaps a village, then you very much would want to go unnoticed. The sound of a shot, BP or otherwise, might draw some very unwanted attention.

Some of the thinking of folks interested in survival planning has been contaminated by bad science fiction in TV and movies. In The Book of Eli, set 40 years after a nuclear holocaust...a good premise and entertaining, but poorly executed science fiction (imho)... Eli has a bow, and cartridge firearm, and the villains have cartrdige fireams... nobody else has a bow? Nobody has a flintlock or a caplock? 40 Years after the collapse of civilization...really? They can make fuel to keep cars moving, but nobody can make black powder? There's no blacksmith...really? After 40 years?
Example 2: In the TV show Revolution... 15 years after something blocks the use of electric power... the female character is using a rather new, compound crossbow...again though no flinters or even matchlocks. It takes a higher level of technology to keep that crossbow working than it does to fashion a basic matchlock, and probably more tech to keep a reproduction flinter (built before the "fall") working. It takes waay less tech to keep a wooden bow and arrows flying. Bad science fiction, and the show was cancelled (saw that coming when I saw the pilot episode). Now we have The 100 , about 100 young adults with zero survival skills landed in the wilderness of what looks to be North America, where they are up against "grounders" and they are holding their own....balderdash. The group would quickly succumb to the wilderness, as well to the humans well trained to the enviornment, and it should be called The Last 10.

IF you are talking about a "fall" where we are reduced to water powered mills, candles, wood stoves, and horse drawn plows to plant crops, then we're talking black powder for everyday use, and hording the modern stuff, in case a large group of Big-n-Bads comes a raiding, and only then.

LD

Last edited by Loyalist Dave; August 28, 2014 at 09:29 AM.
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Old August 28, 2014, 09:35 AM   #18
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It's called a Possibles Bag. Mountain men carried them. Let's not make it too complicated.

Most important thing you can carry: Fixed blade knife. Chop wood for fire, fire starting spindle, shelter.
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Old August 28, 2014, 09:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
At the very least, get a conversion cylinder for you C'n'B revolver, with a box of ammo.
That's it right there. I shoot and hunt with loose powder and ball but after she's all cleaned up in goes the conversion.
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Old August 28, 2014, 11:27 AM   #20
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I have plenty of cartridge shotguns, handguns, and rifles.

Only BAG I have for muzzle loading is a cheap lunch kit type fabric cooler with all my cap and ball supplies in it for loading and maintenance of my revolvers. That's just so it's all in one place and portable.
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Old August 28, 2014, 11:30 AM   #21
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Oh, BTW, I love my .45ACP conversion for my Pietta '58. I have been shooting cast SWCs in .45 ACP for years. Nice to have a revolver that doesn't toss my brass on the ground. Of course, I have Blackhawks, auto pistols, and DA .357s and .38s, too. I don't restrict myself to black powder, which for me is just a hobby, anyway. For serious carry or self defense or even serious hunting since we really don't have a black powder season, I use my cartridge guns. I do kinda like my CVA Wolf for hunting, though. I got it 4 years ago and have taken one deer with it so far.

I'm not really into BOBs, TEOTWAWKI, or SHTF, anyway. Read Matthew 6 25-34 for my perspective on these things. I do live in the woods, do hunt in these woods, do plant gardens, know edible plants, that sort of thing. I do have a travel trailer. But, none of that is in regards to any great conflagration that could come. I will protect myself and mine if it comes to that. This is why I carry a modern handgun....2 or 3 actually.
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Old August 28, 2014, 11:34 AM   #22
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alot has been thrown around about when and if and what to do. One of my buds must have a 100k rounds of 22 rim fire stored away. He can't carry it all with him.

I do think black powder has a place in such planning though. It is more versatile for multi tasking than other powders. It can be used in almost any firearm, for an explosive, etc. Few of the survivalists can actually envision what will be required. A bug out bag entails the assumption that it will be necessary to leave fast. To go where, by what means of travel, through territory with what level of hostility? how friendly or hostile will the destination be? It is better than not having one, but frankly, any bug out bag is of extremely questionable utility. Food, fuel and shelter are the three essentials, followed by the means to protect or keep what you have. Those who do not have the essentials will be forced to face those who are protecting the essentials they possess.

Those who live under the illusion that a country boy can survive forget that the land's ability to support a population of hunter gatherers will be outstripped in no time in most of the country.

So to answer the question, yes I have black powder to go, it is better than a slingshot. But it isn't my go to.
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Old August 28, 2014, 12:17 PM   #23
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A little 49' Colt Pocket would be convenient just take the barrel off and the whole thing would fit in your hand.
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Old August 28, 2014, 01:05 PM   #24
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I do like the idea and have thought about it very deeply. The beauty is that the powder is universal, and multipurpose. I still prefer cartridge guns by a small margin because of the speed of reloading, but for 99 percent of the conceivable situations 5 shots is plenty.
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Old August 28, 2014, 02:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by WestKentucky View Post
...but for 99 percent of the conceivable situations 5 shots is plenty.
As far as I know loading five is a post-C&B practice that came when they crammed cartridges into a cylinder without leaving room for safety notches.

I think reloading is a commonsense weight saving tool. I have a few Lee loaders stashed for "just in case" because it's a lot easier to store the supplies to reload 500rds than 500rds of loaded ammo. The Lee loader itself is a pound of gear, though it saves several pounds of brass.

BP guns minimize the equipment side (it takes less gear to reload 6rd of .44 C&B than 6rd of .44sp) and they drop a consumable (brass) but they lose out on most of those advantages because black powder isn't particularly energy dense. A pound of BP is good for 200 pistol loads where a pound of smokeless might power 700+.

The best all around answer would be a c&b rigged to use maybe 7gr of titegroup and a modern primer, but only if decapping and priming could be done on-gun without bulky extra tools.
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