The RUGER OLD ARMY Club

[ClemBert]

ROA Club Members:

1. ClemBert 2. Eights 3. kanook 4. kwhi43@kc.rr.com 5. mykeal
6. adaptandovercome 7. 461 8. junkman_01 9. lonewolf5347 10. rcflint
11. MCgunner 12.madcratebuilder 13. AbitNutz 14. eastbank 15. robert garner
16. philuk44 17. HUnter58 18. arcticap 19. BullRunBear 20. theotherwaldo
21. SC Slowhand 22. Prairie Dawg 23. wittzo 24. Tallbald 25. Smokin_Gun
26. OB One 27. jungle 28. plumbernater 29. daveinvegas 30. JanZ
31. George Mabry 32. Benmathes 33. Loosenock 34. higene 35. Rock Island
36. Erich 37. robhof 38. J-Bar 39. Nomad, 2nd 40. TAURUSBOB
41. martindl99 42. Vermonter 43. wasatch 44. fogg64 45. BConklin
46. Howdy Doody 47. bushrod2 48. rdstrain49 49. FirinFlatTop 50. rem1858
51. straight-shooter 52. edorfox 53. KevininPa 54. Ringo1234 55. pohill
56. The Don 57. jeepcoma 58. Dave Markowitz 59. Chazz 60. andrewstorm
61. Steel Wheels 62. Legionnaire 63. NineMilePete 64. 94RUGER 65. Acorn Mush
66. R.Ganister 67. Boom-stick 68. Buddy 69. Ghost Dog 70. BML
71. Cult of 1858 72. Jaymo 73. bigbore442001 74. Engineer Bill 75. azyogi
76. Dr. Leaky 77. Clermont 78. Indy4570 79. ozarkguy 80. Plastikosmd

Welcome Plastikosmd!

[ClemBert]

Originally Posted by andrewstorm

Please tell us your take on the r o a and what bill ruger set out to do when he crafted the r o a ,in his own words he stated that he wanted a pistol that had all the attributes of the Remington beals /1858, his first revolver he owned as a boy,and none of the problems such as the loading lever drop upon firing,the loading lever cam weakness,spring weakness,and he made it idiot proof for liability reasons,and we all know why ruger discontinued it cause bill wasn't there to keep it in production as he said he would,cause of all the guns he produced he said "Its the one I like" If bill was alive IM sure he would mandate the continued production of the R O A......R I P BILL RUGER.....................

Please cite your source for the above highlighted statement. The fact of the matter is that the ROA is an original design that was not designed as an 1858 look-alike. I quote you as having written "bill set out to do is build an 1858 new army look alike". When you cite your source as quoted from Bill Ruger then I will be on-board with your assertion/statement. Although, to some without an eye for detail, the ROA may look like an 1858 I would only say that there are subtle similarities between the two. If you take a look at the Ruger Blackhawk you will no doubt see obvious similarities to the ROA. I don't think anyone has asserted that the Blackhawk is a cartridge version of the 1858 or a copy of the Colt Peacemaker.

[andrewstorm]

Cause,its common knowledge that bill ruger built all his hand guns by studying his collection of antique handguns that numbered over 200 and many authors have quoted him as saying his old army was a souped up version of the 1858 new army hence the reference to Army part of the name,just google the bill ruger story.....or the vintage technology R O A....and many other books on six guns............. ruger and his guns is a good book by wilson or ruger pistols and revolvers ,by doogan,bills friend, and many more......

[ClemBert]

Originally Posted by andrewstorm

Cause,its common knowledge that bill ruger built all his hand guns by studying his collection of antique handguns that numbered over 200 and many authors have quoted him as saying his old army was a souped up version of the 1858 new army hence the reference to Army part of the name,just google the bill ruger story.....or the vintage technology R O A....and many other books on six guns............. ruger and his guns is a good book by wilson or ruger pistols and revolvers ,by doogan,bills friend, and many more......

Well, if it is such common knowledge that the ROA is a soupled up version of the 1858 then you shouldn't have any problem citing a reference for all to see. I'm sure all us youngsters would like to be educated. Just sayin' if someone states "it is common knowledge" doesn't make it true. I learn something new everyday. I'm looking forward to your references so I may learn something new. I'm sure others, in addition to myself, eagerly await the data to substantiate what you have stated.

[junkman_01]

Originally Posted by andrewstorm

Cause,its common knowledge that bill ruger built all his hand guns by studying his collection of antique handguns that numbered over 200 and many authors have quoted him as saying his old army was a souped up version of the 1858 new army hence the reference to Army part of the name,just google the bill ruger story.....or the vintage technology R O A....and many other books on six guns............. ruger and his guns is a good book by wilson or ruger pistols and revolvers ,by doogan,bills friend, and many more......

Andrew,

I remember reading that Bill Ruger borrowed from the design of his childhood 1858 Remington in an American Rifleman interview with him in the early 1970's. I wish I knew the month and year of that issue.

[arcticap]

I don't know how or why Bill Ruger came about designing the Ruger Old Army.
But his resulting design does contain some evidence from which we can all form our own opinions about their origin.
Whether done intentionally or not, one website wrote about how the ROA's cylinder notches are similar to the Remington's:

The Ruger Old Army has notches that are located between each chamber of the cylinder to allow for safely resting the hammer nose out of contact with the percussion caps. These hammer safety notches can be seen in the picture at the left. They are located at the rear of the cylinder and are situated between the silver colored nipples. They are very similar to the Fordyce Beals September 14, 1858 patent design for Remington, as is the frame forward of the cylinder....

http://www.ai4fr.com/main/page_milit...ruger_old.html

Another telling post analyzes the Ruger Old Army as having features similar to both the Remington and the Rogers & Spencer which can be summed up by the following excerpt:

The ROA is basically the love child of a Blackhawk (basic mechanism), Remington (cylinder), and the Rogers & Spencer (cylinder base pin and loading lever).

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=16&t=341946

[andrewstorm]

I just spoke with a ruger employee in the r o a history and serial no.look up go to ruger products old army serial no. look up and dial the no.603-865-2424...the lovely lady seemed to have all the information on all books on bill ruger and his guns ....1948-1973 by author wilson read it and then youll be privy to the story,also many gun mags have written of this it is how i first learned of the existince of the r o a ,it only took me 20 yrs to aquire one for myself,and it was everything i thought it would be and more,with all due respect The term old army /new army is the basis for the design,actually the lady said she understood that he and a friend borrowed from rodgers and spencer for the loading lever and the frame was from the new army remington beals 1858...........junkman i wish i could remember what issue that was also because id frame it for futer refrence

[mrdo1]

Hope this comes through, mine just bought, made in 1991.
John
IMG_0496.jpg

[ClemBert]

Originally Posted by andrewstorm

I just spoke with a ruger employee in the r o a history and serial no.look up go to ruger products old army serial no. look up and dial the no.603-865-2424...the lovely lady seemed to have all the information on all books on bill ruger and his guns ....1948-1973 by author wilson read it and then youll be privy to the story,also many gun mags have written of this it is how i first learned of the existince of the r o a ,it only took me 20 yrs to aquire one for myself,and it was everything i thought it would be and more,with all due respect The term old army /new army is the basis for the design,actually the lady said she understood that he and a friend borrowed from rodgers and spencer for the loading lever and the frame was from the new army remington beals 1858...........junkman i wish i could remember what issue that was also because id frame it for futer refrence

Well, I think it is pretty clear that either you can't come up with a specific reference or refuse to. I'm still waiting to find out where you came up with the supposition that "many authors have quoted him as saying his old army was a souped up version of the 1858 new army hence the reference to Army part of the name". Again, I'm not saying it isn't true but to make a statement as factual, telling me to Google it, or giving me a phone number to talk to a lovely lady is less than convincing. I can certainly believe that the ROA took some of it's styling cues from the 1858 but to state that "bill set out to do is build an 1858 new army look alike" I think is a stretch. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong but you provide little to no specific references for us "youngsters" to learn from.

[ClemBert]

ROA Club Members:

1. ClemBert 2. Eights 3. kanook 4. kwhi43@kc.rr.com 5. mykeal
6. adaptandovercome 7. 461 8. junkman_01 9. lonewolf5347 10. rcflint
11. MCgunner 12.madcratebuilder 13. AbitNutz 14. eastbank 15. robert garner
16. philuk44 17. HUnter58 18. arcticap 19. BullRunBear 20. theotherwaldo
21. SC Slowhand 22. Prairie Dawg 23. wittzo 24. Tallbald 25. Smokin_Gun
26. OB One 27. jungle 28. plumbernater 29. daveinvegas 30. JanZ
31. George Mabry 32. Benmathes 33. Loosenock 34. higene 35. Rock Island
36. Erich 37. robhof 38. J-Bar 39. Nomad, 2nd 40. TAURUSBOB
41. martindl99 42. Vermonter 43. wasatch 44. fogg64 45. BConklin
46. Howdy Doody 47. bushrod2 48. rdstrain49 49. FirinFlatTop 50. rem1858
51. straight-shooter 52. edorfox 53. KevininPa 54. Ringo1234 55. pohill
56. The Don 57. jeepcoma 58. Dave Markowitz 59. Chazz 60. andrewstorm
61. Steel Wheels 62. Legionnaire 63. NineMilePete 64. 94RUGER 65. Acorn Mush
66. R.Ganister 67. Boom-stick 68. Buddy 69. Ghost Dog 70. BML
71. Cult of 1858 72. Jaymo 73. bigbore442001 74. Engineer Bill 75. azyogi
76. Dr. Leaky 77. Clermont 78. Indy4570 79. ozarkguy 80. Plastikosmd
81. mrdo1

Welcome mrdo1!!!!

[junkman_01]

Just a tidbit...

re: http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/COLTREM/C...0REMINGTON.htm

History and the forces of the marketplace have a way of sorting out the wheat from the chaff. This is true in percussion revolvers as much as any other technological advance. It’s my belief that if somehow fixed ammunition had never been invented, the absolute zenith of handgun technology would be the Ruger Old Army .45 in stainless steel. The Old Army is essentially a vastly improved and greatly strengthened Model 1858 Remington. This gun is justifiably immensely popular among black powder handgunners, especially those who shoot in target competition.

The Old Army’s lineage can be easily seen in its design features. Though they differ in detail from the Model 1858, the Old Army takes advantage of Remington’s virtues to produce what is arguably the finest percussion revolver ever made. The strength and rigidity of the solid frame principle, the ability to install adjustable sights, and the rapid and simple takedown, coupled with Ruger’s modern materials and manufacturing methods make the Old Army—which isn’t old and was never used by any army, but let that pass—better than anything the 19th Century could have conceived, let alone built. Alas, this outstanding firearm has been dropped from Ruger’s product line.

[robhof]

Have any of you heard of the Tingle revolver, the maker of the Tingle single shot pistol also made some revolvers, there were only a few made, but before ROA's and with many features of them. It was said to be a very strong b/p revolver. Had an email on it, but it apparently got deleted.

[ClemBert]

Originally Posted by junkman_01

Just a tidbit...

This is yet just another person's opinion on their interpretation of what they see when they look at an ROA. I'm still waiting for one of the 80+ members of the ROA Club to link in a specific reference to a Bill Ruger quote concerning his effort to replicate a 1858 copy with modern improvements...or specifically as andrewstorm has written: "all bill set out to do is build an 1858 new army look alike that had all the improvements he could think of and still be of antique status"

[bax504]

I have been waiting for a long time for the 82nd spot. 82ND Airborne all the way. Here's a picture of my 5 1/2 fixed stainless. I also have a 7 1/2 adjustable stainless too.

[ClemBert]

ROA Club Members:

1. ClemBert 2. Eights 3. kanook 4. kwhi43@kc.rr.com 5. mykeal
6. adaptandovercome 7. 461 8. junkman_01 9. lonewolf5347 10. rcflint
11. MCgunner 12.madcratebuilder 13. AbitNutz 14. eastbank 15. robert garner
16. philuk44 17. HUnter58 18. arcticap 19. BullRunBear 20. theotherwaldo
21. SC Slowhand 22. Prairie Dawg 23. wittzo 24. Tallbald 25. Smokin_Gun
26. OB One 27. jungle 28. plumbernater 29. daveinvegas 30. JanZ
31. George Mabry 32. Benmathes 33. Loosenock 34. higene 35. Rock Island
36. Erich 37. robhof 38. J-Bar 39. Nomad, 2nd 40. TAURUSBOB
41. martindl99 42. Vermonter 43. wasatch 44. fogg64 45. BConklin
46. Howdy Doody 47. bushrod2 48. rdstrain49 49. FirinFlatTop 50. rem1858
51. straight-shooter 52. edorfox 53. KevininPa 54. Ringo1234 55. pohill
56. The Don 57. jeepcoma 58. Dave Markowitz 59. Chazz 60. andrewstorm
61. Steel Wheels 62. Legionnaire 63. NineMilePete 64. 94RUGER 65. Acorn Mush
66. R.Ganister 67. Boom-stick 68. Buddy 69. Ghost Dog 70. BML
71. Cult of 1858 72. Jaymo 73. bigbore442001 74. Engineer Bill 75. azyogi
76. Dr. Leaky 77. Clermont 78. Indy4570 79. ozarkguy 80. Plastikosmd
81. mrdo1 82nd bax504

Welcome bax504! Do you see what I did there?

Wouldn't you have been PO-ed if someone snuck in there before you when you weren't paying attention?...LOL! Congrats and thank you for your service.

[bax504]

It was a long wait, but well worth it.

[junkman_01]

Clembert,

Why don't we all (80+ members) join hands and we can have a seance to ask Bill Ruger directly? Would THAT satisfy you? Nah, I suspect that the only thing that would satisfy YOU would be a notarized sworn statement from Bill Ruger himself! Open your eyes.

[andrewstorm]

I will post the article soon , the ruger historian she was very helpfull,she also said that there was info at the ruger collectors society. com? THE LADY ALSO STATED THAT BILL RUGER BUILT HIS BEARCAT BASED ON THE REMINGTON POCKET PERCUSSION ,isnt that a scaled down version of the 1858?

[ClemBert]

Originally Posted by andrewstorm

I will post the article soon , the ruger historian she was very helpfull,she also said that there was info at the ruger collectors society. com?

Kewl! Looking forward to it! Thanks for taking to time to find the references that I'm sure will interest all ROA lovers.

[andrewstorm]

In looking for the article in which bill ruger tells the story of the design of his beloved r o a ,Ive found a source of the story of the proof testing of the r o a in john taffins book six guns he describes a 457 Rb being seated on a cylinder full of bullseye smokeless powder and fired,it held and the r o a was accepted as safe for the public to enjoy ,this is one for the myth busters.........

[Jaymo]

Nah, Jamie and Adam will just end up sending that round ball through someone's house.
That, or they'll fill the chamber with Winchester Superlite and blow it up.

So, what you're saying is that the ROA is the love child of the RNA, R&S, and the RBH.
I'm good with that. I see all three guns in the ROA.

Notice he didn't base it on the Colts. He wanted it to be strong.
Yep, I said it. Let the flaming commence.

All I know is I have one and love it.
Of course, I also have Repro Colts and RNAs. Don't plan on getting rid of any of them.

[J-Bar]

The story about proofing the ROA with Bullseye is also found in the book "Ruger and His Guns" by R. L. Wilson. It is told by one of the designers of the gun, so I think it is fact rather than myth.

The discussion in this same book about design of the ROA mentions the Rodgers and Spencer and the Remington pocket pistol, but does not specifically mention the 1858 New Army. One would presume the "Old Army" is somehow related to the "New Army", wouldn't one?

Go figure.

[andrewstorm]

I see we are getting closer to the truth,isnt the pocket remmie just a scaled down version of the rem 1858? well ill go search for that article

[MCgunner]

I really don't care WHAT it was "based" on. It's the finest SHOOTING cap and ball revolver extant. I love my replicas for other reasons, but if I absolutely, positively have to hit the target, I'm usin' the ROA.

[tom e gun]

question for you ROA boys, what would be considered a good price for a used 7.5 inch stainless steel model?