The RUGER OLD ARMY Club - Page 41

Jaymo · September 1, 2012, 10:07 PM

Jim, mine's stainless. I'm not complaining about the price. My wife did enough of that for both of us.

I don't have any pics of it with the new grips, yet. I need to take and post some.
I highly recommend CLC Custom Grips AND Private's Custom Grips. I have Private's American Holly grips on my new Ruger Flattop Blackhawk .44 Special. (I'm a longtime fan of that round)
BTW, nice ROA.

Doak, what about aluminum bronze or beryllium copper? Charter made (still does?) their firing pins from beryllium copper and they were unbreakable in use.

Doak · September 1, 2012, 10:18 PM

I'll look into that Jaymo. Thanks for the tip. Both of those are a bit tricky to machine. Don't have any experience w/'em. And I gotta get sumpin' up 'n' running soon. It's gonna be 416, 4140, O1, something of that nature...all those are hardenable and tough.

I'm open to suggestions, too! Thanks!

Jim, West PA · September 1, 2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Jim, mine's stainless. I'm not complaining about the price. My wife did enough of that for both of us.
I don't have any pics of it with the new grips, yet. I need to take and post some.
I highly recommend CLC Custom Grips AND Private's Custom Grips. I have Private's American Holly grips on my new Ruger Flattop Blackhawk .44 Special. (I'm a longtime fan of that round)
BTW, nice ROA.

Mmmm...so ya went and bot it. Gooood stuff

She'll git over the sticker shock 'fore she's knows it. It's lookin like any ROA purchase these days is an investment.
I 'preciate the info on CLC but after bein a custom gun builder, stock maker and all that. It'd be a mighty hard pill fer me to swaller to go and buy someone elses srock/s workins.
I know wat ya mean 'bout the .44 special. But i allways loved it's 'big brother'.
I miss my Redhawk cry.gif

Thanx for the compliment on my rescue

Now git them pics up !!

kBob · September 2, 2012, 11:43 AM

Yard Dog,

read up stream about Doak's conversion to use small pistol primers on his ROA.

Everyone else,

Does the ROA use the same back strap et al as the Blackhawk guns? Can the Bisley conversion from Brownells by strapped on a ROA? Can the kit hammer be modified to work on the ROA? Tried to search and all six hits just took me to the begining of the club.

-kBob

Indian Outlaw · September 2, 2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Does the ROA use the same back strap et al as the Blackhawk guns?

Both XR3-RED gripframes, I believe, excluding the early brass ROA gripframe, which was longer.

Jaymo · September 2, 2012, 11:51 AM

The ROA used the same grips as the Blackhawk and original Vaquero.
That said, the New Model Blackhawk and Vaquero (since 2005 or 6, IIRC) use a different grip frame and grip.
You should be able to install the Bisley grip frame and maybe even trigger.
I don't think the hammer would work. You may be able to have the ROA hammer spur heated/forged lower and to a Bisley shape, though I'm not sure it would accomplish anything. The ROA isn't uncomfortable or hard-kicking.

Doak, 4140 should work well. I don't remember which alloy you used. Something with a lower carbon content than 1085 should hold up and resist cracking.
How about S7? It's a shock resistant steel.

I forget which alloy punches and cold chisels are made of, but they're very shock resistant, when properly heat treated.

You may need to go with a low-to-medium carbon steel and case harden/superquench it. IIRC, you can get about 45 Rockwell from 1020 if you superquench it. I have an article about it in a HSM or MW magazine, somewhere.
You could case harden it with Kasenit, to get a very hard surface, while retaining the core toughness.
Then again, 45 may be plenty hard for what you need. And it should retain the toughness you need.
It could be worth a try.

But I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know.

I'm a fan of your primer capsule work. I may have to dig out the lathe and make some.

I have a golf cart axle (medium carbon steel) in my shop that I could use to make some. Sure would have to hog off a bunch of the OD, though.
Maybe I should make some from an old pin punch. I have some I bought at Northern Tool (Asian made) that are too soft for punch use.
I could use them, and then case harden them.

Patocazador · September 2, 2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doak

Today, while cleaning my stainless ROA, took all the primer capsules out to do routine maintenance on 'em and found that 2 of them are cracked. They're cracked on the tip area deepest in the cylinder.

I'm gonna change the steel they're made of and will try several different materials. It'll be harder on the cutting tools, and prolly won't come out quite so purty. New material will be hardenable so won't have to mess around w/case hardening.

Will keep y'all posted as I go along.

All that work and now they're cracked ... BUMMER!
I don't have the tooling (or the experience) necessary to even think about that project. But would be all over it if I did. My gunsmith neighbor had a complete machine shop and could have done the project for me but his love of motorcycles and partying got him killed. He was very talented ... what a waste.

Jaymo · September 2, 2012, 12:22 PM

Jim, I understand your love of .44 Mag. I have 2 .44 mag revolvers (Redhawk, and Taurus M44) and a Marlin 1894P.
Bill Ruger was fond of it as a hunting round, as well.
I like most all .44 and .45 caliber pistols and rifles.
Hence, my love of the ROA. It's a big, beefy, tough .45 BP revolver.

I'd like to own about 20 ROAs. That way, I could customize several with different barrel lengths, grip styles, sights, etc, and still have a bunch of stock ones in different configurations.

I feel that the ROA was the zenith, the apex of C&B revolver development and design.
I think I need to get a spare C&B cyl for mine, so I can load them on the press, and be able to swap them out.
Or, just to have one of the aftermarket ones that holds more power, err, powder.

I had several friends killed riding 2-wheel deathtraps in the early 90s. All within a year of each other. All through no fault of their own.
I haven't been on one since then.

Jaymo · September 2, 2012, 12:25 PM

Doak, which alloy are your original primer capsules?

Jim, West PA · September 2, 2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Jim, I understand your love of .44 Mag. I have 2 .44 mag revolvers (Redhawk, and Taurus M44) and a Marlin 1894P.
Bill Ruger was fond of it as a hunting round, as well.
I like most all .44 and .45 caliber pistols and rifles.
Hence, my love of the ROA. It's a big, beefy, tough .45 BP revolver.

I'd like to own about 20 ROAs. That way, I could customize several with different barrel lengths, grip styles, sights, etc, and still have a bunch of stock ones in different configurations.

I feel that the ROA was the zenith, the apex of C&B revolver development and design.
I think I need to get a spare C&B cyl for mine, so I can load them on the press, and be able to swap them out.
Or, just to have one of the aftermarket ones that holds more power, err, powder.

I had several friends killed riding 2-wheel deathtraps in the early 90s. All within a year of each other. All through no fault of their own.
I haven't been on one since then.

Absolutely on the same page Jaymo happy-thumbs-up-050.gif
Well, 'cept for one thing.
I aint in no hurry to git off my scoot.

When i got my first ROA the very first thing i did was call Ruger to buy an xtra cylinder and they told me in no uncertain terms..."NO" !!!
They said "we have 'em but you can't buy 'em ".
They told me that the only way to git one was "IF" i bot an ROA minus the cylinder then they would sell one but i had to send them the gun and they would 'fit' it.
Is there an aftermarket cylinder that i'm not aware of ?

Malachi Leviticus Blue · September 2, 2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim, West PA

Is there an aftermarket cylinder that i'm not aware of ?

yes

http://www.classicballistx.com

Doak · September 2, 2012, 01:52 PM

What I've made them all out of so far is 12L14. It's free machining and low carbon. The L stands for lead. It's also know as LedLoy. Can't quench to harden it, carbon's too low. Hence the necessity to case it. It's appeal is how easily it machines. Easy on the cutters. Nice finish.

My case process is agressive and I suspect I'm leaving the parts in the pack too long and carburizing allaway thru. The end result is brittleness, even after tempering at 500'F. Plus, the 12L14 may not be up to the task over the long haul. Havn't had the problem in the blued ROA's. Stainless is a bit more elastic than regular steel. That, plus the deepest threads in several holes in my stainless cylinder are intermittent or missing from the factory. That doesn't support the male threads. Even so, the proper material would handle that.

I'd just as soon eliminate case hardening. It's allota extra work. Using a martensitic (hardenable) steel is simpler, just not as nice a finish, and more cutter maintenance.

Appreciate your input Jaymo. I've got O1 drill rod in a usable diameter rite now, so am horsing around w/that 'til Monday, when I can get to All Metals in Oroville. 4140 is a stock material there, maybe they have it in 5/16ths.

By superquenching I'm guessing ya mean quenching in a -100'F dry-ice alcohol bath after the initial oil quench?

Will keep my progress posted.

Jim, West PA · September 2, 2012, 02:00 PM

Thanx Malachi

Doak · September 4, 2012, 09:32 PM

For anyone who might be interested, I started a new thread in Gunsmithing. It's titled "Ruger Old Army .45 Action Job".

Jim, West PA · September 4, 2012, 11:42 PM

I'm on my way.
Thanx Doak.

BubbaGoose · September 16, 2012, 08:04 PM

Thanks to one and all on this thread for the info and inspiration. I just picked this up this past week. I like it so much I think it needs a twin.

Doak · September 16, 2012, 08:34 PM

How 'bout triplets?

BubbaGoose · September 16, 2012, 10:15 PM

one step at a time.

FreddyKruger · September 17, 2012, 09:24 AM

add me to the list!

Picked up the Ruger on Friday.

is there still somewhere to get the larger grips that extend about another 3/8" below the frame?

Jim, West PA · September 17, 2012, 12:33 PM

Janet and I was torn twixt settin up at a small gun show yesterday and our commitments to our worship team at church.
Well, we were blessed with bein able to do both.
As some of ya know, i've had my heart set on a pretty unreachable six shooter.
Unreachable because of the way GB has been drivin prices unreasonably high.

About an hour into the show i was walkin t'wards the door when i see this fella holdin a grey plastic box under his arm.
Me.." for sale?"
"yep"
He opens the box and immediately i start to think.."way too much" .
" I want one so bad, this is cruel,walk away Jim ".
Well...." can i see it?"
He hands er off to me and she immediately felt ..'at home' in my hand.
I check it over, admire, drool, curb my enthusiasm.
Notice she's sportin an R&D.
Trigger is beautiful.A wee bit light.....mmm...'worked'.
OK, time for dissapointment and to say goodby to my 'grail'.
I take a deep breath and half heartedly let those fatefull words kind o' jist fall out.
"What ya askin for it?"
"$400.00"
Without even aware of the moment and what i just heard i instinctively retort...
"take $350.00?"
"ok"

I couldn't pull the cash fast enough.
IMGP1699.JPG
IMGP1700.JPG

I sat back down at my table and found myself in a bit of a state of euphoria for a while.
Turns out tho that there is no factory cylinder with 'er.
I'm gonna call Ruger today but i'm sure that all i'll git is laughed at.
Tho they did tell me a couple o' months ago that "yes, we do have ROA cylinders. But, we will only sell them to folks that have ROA's with no cylinders".
We'll see.But i doubt it'll happen.
I sure hope i didn't buy a big ole

None-the-least.All "economicals" aside.
I absolutely love it!!!

Doak · September 17, 2012, 01:35 PM

'done good Pilgrim...

Jim, West PA · September 17, 2012, 01:43 PM

Thanx Doak. But now i feel like i'm on a hunt for the 8th wonder of the world with tryin to git a factory cylinder for it.

Doak · September 17, 2012, 04:43 PM

Might have some luck if ya show up at the factory, w/the revolver, and explain your dilemma.

Jim, West PA · September 17, 2012, 04:49 PM

Mmmm......that would easily fit in my saddle bag.
ROAD TRIP !!!! LOL

I actualy just returned from the post office.
I shipped it to Ruger and they are gonna hook me up

The price is great also.
The gal on the phone didn't batt an eye and said..."sure we got 'em in stock but you gotta send us the gun".
Gave me an RMA# and off to the PO i went.
The trigger was definately not factory specs so i jist hope they don't think they gotta change out the trigger/hammer and charge me for it.

AbitNutz · September 17, 2012, 04:49 PM

i'm looking at one of the latest run of classicbalistx cylinders....looks and measures out quite good. I think I'm going to be happy with it. 416 polished stainless, deepened cylinders, drops right in....and no goofy "Black powder only" scrolled into it.

September 1, 2012, 10:07 PM	#1001
Jaymo Member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Posts: 2,515	Jim, mine's stainless. I'm not complaining about the price. My wife did enough of that for both of us. I don't have any pics of it with the new grips, yet. I need to take and post some. I highly recommend CLC Custom Grips AND Private's Custom Grips. I have Private's American Holly grips on my new Ruger Flattop Blackhawk .44 Special. (I'm a longtime fan of that round) BTW, nice ROA. Doak, what about aluminum bronze or beryllium copper? Charter made (still does?) their firing pins from beryllium copper and they were unbreakable in use. __________________ Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?

September 2, 2012, 11:51 AM	#1006
Jaymo Member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Posts: 2,515	The ROA used the same grips as the Blackhawk and original Vaquero. That said, the New Model Blackhawk and Vaquero (since 2005 or 6, IIRC) use a different grip frame and grip. You should be able to install the Bisley grip frame and maybe even trigger. I don't think the hammer would work. You may be able to have the ROA hammer spur heated/forged lower and to a Bisley shape, though I'm not sure it would accomplish anything. The ROA isn't uncomfortable or hard-kicking. Doak, 4140 should work well. I don't remember which alloy you used. Something with a lower carbon content than 1085 should hold up and resist cracking. How about S7? It's a shock resistant steel. I forget which alloy punches and cold chisels are made of, but they're very shock resistant, when properly heat treated. You may need to go with a low-to-medium carbon steel and case harden/superquench it. IIRC, you can get about 45 Rockwell from 1020 if you superquench it. I have an article about it in a HSM or MW magazine, somewhere. You could case harden it with Kasenit, to get a very hard surface, while retaining the core toughness. Then again, 45 may be plenty hard for what you need. And it should retain the toughness you need. It could be worth a try. But I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know. I'm a fan of your primer capsule work. I may have to dig out the lathe and make some. I have a golf cart axle (medium carbon steel) in my shop that I could use to make some. Sure would have to hog off a bunch of the OD, though. Maybe I should make some from an old pin punch. I have some I bought at Northern Tool (Asian made) that are too soft for punch use. I could use them, and then case harden them. __________________ Who do you trust when everyone's a crook? Last edited by Jaymo; September 2, 2012 at 12:01 PM.

September 2, 2012, 12:22 PM	#1008
Jaymo Member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Posts: 2,515	Jim, I understand your love of .44 Mag. I have 2 .44 mag revolvers (Redhawk, and Taurus M44) and a Marlin 1894P. Bill Ruger was fond of it as a hunting round, as well. I like most all .44 and .45 caliber pistols and rifles. Hence, my love of the ROA. It's a big, beefy, tough .45 BP revolver. I'd like to own about 20 ROAs. That way, I could customize several with different barrel lengths, grip styles, sights, etc, and still have a bunch of stock ones in different configurations. I feel that the ROA was the zenith, the apex of C&B revolver development and design. I think I need to get a spare C&B cyl for mine, so I can load them on the press, and be able to swap them out. Or, just to have one of the aftermarket ones that holds more power, err, powder. I had several friends killed riding 2-wheel deathtraps in the early 90s. All within a year of each other. All through no fault of their own. I haven't been on one since then. __________________ Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?

September 2, 2012, 12:25 PM	#1009
Jaymo Member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Posts: 2,515	Doak, which alloy are your original primer capsules? __________________ Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?

September 2, 2012, 01:52 PM	#1012
Doak Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 189	Jaymo What I've made them all out of so far is 12L14. It's free machining and low carbon. The L stands for lead. It's also know as LedLoy. Can't quench to harden it, carbon's too low. Hence the necessity to case it. It's appeal is how easily it machines. Easy on the cutters. Nice finish. My case process is agressive and I suspect I'm leaving the parts in the pack too long and carburizing allaway thru. The end result is brittleness, even after tempering at 500'F. Plus, the 12L14 may not be up to the task over the long haul. Havn't had the problem in the blued ROA's. Stainless is a bit more elastic than regular steel. That, plus the deepest threads in several holes in my stainless cylinder are intermittent or missing from the factory. That doesn't support the male threads. Even so, the proper material would handle that. I'd just as soon eliminate case hardening. It's allota extra work. Using a martensitic (hardenable) steel is simpler, just not as nice a finish, and more cutter maintenance. Appreciate your input Jaymo. I've got O1 drill rod in a usable diameter rite now, so am horsing around w/that 'til Monday, when I can get to All Metals in Oroville. 4140 is a stock material there, maybe they have it in 5/16ths. By superquenching I'm guessing ya mean quenching in a -100'F dry-ice alcohol bath after the initial oil quench? Will keep my progress posted. Last edited by Doak; September 2, 2012 at 02:10 PM. Reason: addition

September 1, 2012, 10:18 PM	#1002
Doak Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 189	I'll look into that Jaymo. Thanks for the tip. Both of those are a bit tricky to machine. Don't have any experience w/'em. And I gotta get sumpin' up 'n' running soon. It's gonna be 416, 4140, O1, something of that nature...all those are hardenable and tough. I'm open to suggestions, too! Thanks!

September 2, 2012, 11:43 AM	#1004
kBob Member Join Date: June 11, 2006 Location: North Central Florida Posts: 1,734	Yard Dog, read up stream about Doak's conversion to use small pistol primers on his ROA. Everyone else, Does the ROA use the same back strap et al as the Blackhawk guns? Can the Bisley conversion from Brownells by strapped on a ROA? Can the kit hammer be modified to work on the ROA? Tried to search and all six hits just took me to the begining of the club. -kBob

September 2, 2012, 02:00 PM	#1013
Jim, West PA Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: Mamont Pa. Posts: 1,783	Thanx Malachi __________________ At birth, God bestowed upon each of us the greatest responsibility there is...FREE WILL. Am i proud to be an American ?...you bet i am.Tho, as of late, embarrassed to admit it.

September 4, 2012, 09:32 PM	#1014
Doak Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 189	Action Job: Started New Thread: Gunsmithing For anyone who might be interested, I started a new thread in Gunsmithing. It's titled "Ruger Old Army .45 Action Job".

September 4, 2012, 11:42 PM	#1015
Jim, West PA Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: Mamont Pa. Posts: 1,783	I'm on my way. Thanx Doak. __________________ At birth, God bestowed upon each of us the greatest responsibility there is...FREE WILL. Am i proud to be an American ?...you bet i am.Tho, as of late, embarrassed to admit it.

September 16, 2012, 08:34 PM	#1017
Doak Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 189	How 'bout triplets?

September 16, 2012, 10:15 PM	#1018
BubbaGoose Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Posts: 2	one step at a time.

September 17, 2012, 09:24 AM	#1019
FreddyKruger Member Join Date: June 28, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 190	add me to the list! Picked up the Ruger on Friday. is there still somewhere to get the larger grips that extend about another 3/8" below the frame? __________________ THR Walker Club - #141 THR Remington 1858 Club - #154 THE Ruger Old Army Club - #118

September 17, 2012, 12:33 PM	#1020
Jim, West PA Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: Mamont Pa. Posts: 1,783	Was blessed with my grail yesterday. Janet and I was torn twixt settin up at a small gun show yesterday and our commitments to our worship team at church. Well, we were blessed with bein able to do both. As some of ya know, i've had my heart set on a pretty unreachable six shooter. Unreachable because of the way GB has been drivin prices unreasonably high. About an hour into the show i was walkin t'wards the door when i see this fella holdin a grey plastic box under his arm. Me.." for sale?" "yep" He opens the box and immediately i start to think.."way too much" . " I want one so bad, this is cruel,walk away Jim ". Well...." can i see it?" He hands er off to me and she immediately felt ..'at home' in my hand. I check it over, admire, drool, curb my enthusiasm. Notice she's sportin an R&D. Trigger is beautiful.A wee bit light.....mmm...'worked'. OK, time for dissapointment and to say goodby to my 'grail'. I take a deep breath and half heartedly let those fatefull words kind o' jist fall out. "What ya askin for it?" "$400.00" Without even aware of the moment and what i just heard i instinctively retort... "take $350.00?" "ok" I couldn't pull the cash fast enough. IMGP1699.JPG IMGP1700.JPG I sat back down at my table and found myself in a bit of a state of euphoria for a while. Turns out tho that there is no factory cylinder with 'er. I'm gonna call Ruger today but i'm sure that all i'll git is laughed at. Tho they did tell me a couple o' months ago that "yes, we do have ROA cylinders. But, we will only sell them to folks that have ROA's with no cylinders". We'll see.But i doubt it'll happen. I sure hope i didn't buy a big ole None-the-least.All "economicals" aside. I absolutely love it!!! __________________ At birth, God bestowed upon each of us the greatest responsibility there is...FREE WILL. Am i proud to be an American ?...you bet i am.Tho, as of late, embarrassed to admit it.

September 17, 2012, 01:43 PM	#1022
Jim, West PA Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: Mamont Pa. Posts: 1,783	Thanx Doak. But now i feel like i'm on a hunt for the 8th wonder of the world with tryin to git a factory cylinder for it. __________________ At birth, God bestowed upon each of us the greatest responsibility there is...FREE WILL. Am i proud to be an American ?...you bet i am.Tho, as of late, embarrassed to admit it.

September 17, 2012, 04:43 PM	#1023
Doak Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Location: Northern California Posts: 189	Might have some luck if ya show up at the factory, w/the revolver, and explain your dilemma.

September 17, 2012, 04:49 PM	#1024
Jim, West PA Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: Mamont Pa. Posts: 1,783	Mmmm......that would easily fit in my saddle bag. ROAD TRIP !!!! LOL I actualy just returned from the post office. I shipped it to Ruger and they are gonna hook me up The price is great also. The gal on the phone didn't batt an eye and said..."sure we got 'em in stock but you gotta send us the gun". Gave me an RMA# and off to the PO i went. The trigger was definately not factory specs so i jist hope they don't think they gotta change out the trigger/hammer and charge me for it. __________________ At birth, God bestowed upon each of us the greatest responsibility there is...FREE WILL. Am i proud to be an American ?...you bet i am.Tho, as of late, embarrassed to admit it.

September 17, 2012, 04:49 PM	#1025
AbitNutz Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 662	i'm looking at one of the latest run of classicbalistx cylinders....looks and measures out quite good. I think I'm going to be happy with it. 416 polished stainless, deepened cylinders, drops right in....and no goofy "Black powder only" scrolled into it.