Quantcast
38 Supers in a 357 revolver? What? - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Handguns: Revolvers

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 11, 2015, 01:08 PM   #1
627PCFan
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 18, 2007
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 1,856
38 Supers in a 357 revolver? What?

I was just watching the 357 Tribute Video posted by Hickok45 on you tube and he stated that you could shoot a 38 Super in a 357 chambered gun.....I thought you could do a 38 Short Colt, 38 Special and of course 357 but 38 Super? I figured a .355 bullet would be undersized by the bore but would go down but would the case headspace correctly?
__________________
Anything less than an N-Frame just doesnt feel right....
627PCFan is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 01:42 PM   #2
PO2Hammer
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 30, 2003
Posts: 3,086
.38 Super uses a thicker case than .357 and don't fit in some .38 spl or .357 guns.
They fit in my Freedom Arms .357 chambers (didn't fire them), but wouldn't chamber in my S&W model 10 .38 spl. I fired 1 .38 Super in my .357 T/C Contender single shot, but the case stuck real tight in the chamber after firing, so I never tried another.

They do headspace on the small rim if they fit in your chamber.
PO2Hammer is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 01:49 PM   #3
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,435
I can't help but ask....WHY? Is .38 super ammo cheaper than .357? Uh, no. Is .38 super more available than .357? Uh, no.

Good knowledge to know, I guess, but beyond that, of no practical use IMHO.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 01:51 PM   #4
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,435
On the .355 bullet in a .357 bore, I'd always thought that would give the 9mm Blackhawk convertibles poor accuracy with the 9mm cylinder until I got one. Hell, it shoots 1.5" groups off the bench at 25 yards with 9mm 115 Winchester JHPs moving around 1100 fps. Not shabby for a .002" undersized bullet. I am impressed. You just never know until you try it.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 02:05 PM   #5
PO2Hammer
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 30, 2003
Posts: 3,086
The other problem IMO is that with the short super case the bullet might be unsupported in the .357 chamber. The front of the bullet's bearing surface hasn't reached the throat before the base of the bullet leaves the brass, so for a short distance the bullet is loose in the chamber. It could get out of alignment and strike the shoulder at the end of the chamber and gas can get by it.

I wouldn't recommend it.
PO2Hammer is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 02:18 PM   #6
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,435
Quote:
The other problem IMO is that with the short super case the bullet might be unsupported in the .357 chamber. The front of the bullet's bearing surface hasn't reached the throat before the base of the bullet leaves the brass, so for a short distance the bullet is loose in the chamber. It could get out of alignment and strike the shoulder at the end of the chamber and gas can get by it.

I wouldn't recommend it.
Good point.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 02:24 PM   #7
mjsdwash
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 14, 2011
Posts: 194
if that were the case, 38 wadcutters would suffer a little to in a 357. probably not as much, but i would think a little
mjsdwash is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 02:43 PM   #8
JRH6856
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 5, 2011
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 3,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCgunner View Post
On the .355 bullet in a .357 bore, I'd always thought that would give the 9mm Blackhawk convertibles poor accuracy with the 9mm cylinder until I got one. Hell, it shoots 1.5" groups off the bench at 25 yards with 9mm 115 Winchester JHPs moving around 1100 fps. Not shabby for a .002" undersized bullet. I am impressed. You just never know until you try it.
Some .357s have really tight bores. I get the best accuracy and tightest groups from my Security Six .357 with cast lead sized .356.
__________________
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" US Constitution, 2A, 1791
“Rights are not supposed to be open to popularity contests." Rachel Maddow, 2013

The only thing you can count on being set in stone is your epitaph...if you're lucky
JRH6856 is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 03:25 PM   #9
PO2Hammer
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 30, 2003
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
if that were the case, 38 wadcutters would suffer a little to in a 357. probably not as much, but i would think a little
Just the opposite situation. .38 spl is only ~1/8" shorter than .357, and the bearing surface is quite long with a HBWC, so the bullet enters the .357 throat long before the bullet base leaves the .38 spl brass. Not unsupported at any point.
PO2Hammer is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 04:34 PM   #10
BobWright
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 11, 2014
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 511
Somebody, like a hundred years ago (not really) published an article in some old time gun magazine about how many different cartridges could be fired in a .357 Magnum revolver, including the .35 Winchester Self Loading cartridge. Naturally, many readers of the article tried the practice. And found it was true.

What was tragic was that some found that .357 Magnum cartridges could be fired in older .38 Long Colt revovlers, much to their dismay!

Bob Wright
BobWright is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 05:18 PM   #11
jmr40
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 8,478
Quote:
I can't help but ask....WHY? Is .38 super ammo cheaper than .357? Uh, no. Is .38 super more available than .357? Uh, no.
If I ever find myself out of 38 or 357 ammo for my revolver and I just happen to come across some 38 Super ammo I suppose it would be good to know it'd work in a pinch. But I agree, it's not something I'd do by design.
__________________
Most people don't really want the truth.

They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth
jmr40 is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 07:42 PM   #12
the Real Alpo
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 30, 2014
Posts: 35
Seems like a bad plan.

357 case OD is .379.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd357remingtonmagnum.jpg
And there must be room in the chamber for the case to expand far enough to let go of the bullet. So what would you guess - ten thousands over? .389 hole?

38 Super case OD is .385.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd38superautomatic.jpg
Now, that 385 case WILL fit down into that 389 hole, but it's only going to be able to expand two thousands of an inch on each side, instead of the five thousands that the 357 does.

Just seem like your pressures would be quite a bit higher.
the Real Alpo is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 08:32 PM   #13
BobWright
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 11, 2014
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 511
Elmer Keith related a story of someone settling the accounts of an outlaw using a .38-40 cartridge in a .44-40 or .45 Colt chambered revolver. Wrapped the cartridge with tape to hold it sort of in place. The undersized bullet waddled down the bore and out with enough ooomph! to kill the outlaw.

Bob Wright
BobWright is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 09:55 PM   #14
PJSprog
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 18, 2013
Location: Southern Illinois (STL area)
Posts: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCgunner View Post
I can't help but ask....WHY?.
In that Hickok45 video cited in the OP, he mentioned that he has a bunch of .38 Super rounds left over from when he used to shoot competition. That was the premise for the comment.

I enjoyed the hell out of that video, by the way. Still my favorite cartridge / revolver combination to this day.
__________________
~PJS~
What part of "...shall not be infringed" is unclear?
PJSprog is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 10:16 PM   #15
AJD
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 6, 2006
Posts: 180
For the video: The bullet itself was a 38 super projectile loaded into a .357 magnum case...it was NOTan actual .38 super cartridge. FYI
AJD is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 10:53 PM   #16
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,435
Quote:
If I ever find myself out of 38 or 357 ammo for my revolver and I just happen to come across some 38 Super ammo I suppose it would be good to know it'd work in a pinch. But I agree, it's not something I'd do by design.
Well, if I need .38 or .357, I just install the proper turret, make sure I have enough bullets cast from whichever mold I wanna use, load primers, powder, and start cranking 'em out. I haven't bought a box of .38 or .357 loaded ammo in 35 years. But, to each their own.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old July 11, 2015, 10:57 PM   #17
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,435
Quote:
For the video: The bullet itself was a 38 super projectile loaded into a .357 magnum case...it was NOTan actual .38 super cartridge. FYI
Well, of course THAT would work. I shoot 9mm in my .357 revolver all the time....with the 9mm cylinder installed. I generally shoot lead bullets sized to .357 in my 9mm guns, though, kinda the opposite situation. It's a 358-105 Lee mold and works very well in 9x19, even in my .380.

One thing, I'd prefer, if I were loading a .355" jacketed bullet in .357 brass, to have a crimp groove.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 12:23 AM   #18
PO2Hammer
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 30, 2003
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
One thing, I'd prefer, if I were loading a .355" jacketed bullet in .357 brass, to have a crimp groove.
With the long noses on the typical 9mm FMJ, they end up being too long for the cylinders if loaded normally in .357 brass. Seat them deep enough so you can crimp on the nose. It prevents bullet pull and reduces OAL. I loaded a lot of .355" & .356" bullets in .357 brass during the shortage of '08. It worked very well.
PO2Hammer is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 12:28 AM   #19
RainDodger
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 20, 2009
Location: Great Northwest
Posts: 1,363
Why do people keep tempting fate by shooting some caliber that's not stamped on the barrel? Rhetorical question. I simply don't see the point.
__________________
Roger
Life Member, NRA, since 1975
Hand Loading since '69
U.S. Naval Aviator, Retired
RainDodger is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 12:42 AM   #20
PO2Hammer
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 30, 2003
Posts: 3,086
Then I better not mention how I used to shoot .40 S&W out of my stock 10mm Glock. OOPS!
Some of us like to color outside the lines.
PO2Hammer is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 11:56 AM   #21
ApacheCoTodd
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 30, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by PO2Hammer View Post
Then I better not mention how I used to shoot .40 S&W out of my stock 10mm Glock. OOPS!
Some of us like to color outside the lines.
And why not? It's just 10mm Short/10mm Special. Or, if you can't take the heat... turn the stove down.

I guess Hicock didn't intend to get anyone's undies in a bunch but rather point out the potential connections even if impractical.

Sorta like making the tenuous connection of all "Small Block Chevies" to the original 265 of 1955.

I find it curiously entertaining in the same vein of folk hypothesizing on the various .30s which may be fired from say, a 30-06 with adaptors.

Todd.
ApacheCoTodd is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 04:41 PM   #22
Jim K
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 31, 2002
Posts: 16,377
When I was playing around with penetration questions, I fired a fair number of 9mm FMJ bullets in a .357, using .357 cases. Accuracy was fine.

As to .38 Super in a .38/.357 chamber, I rather doubt that it can be done as a common practice. I tried a couple of brands of .38 Super and .38 ACP in a variety of S&W and Colt revolvers and could not get the auto pistol cartridges to enter the revolver chambers. It might work with some rounds (tolerances again), but it certainly is not something to depend on, even in an emergency.

But the .38 Super/ACP would fit almost all of the .38 S&W revolvers I tried it in. And I have no doubt that firing .38 Super in some of those guns would be damaging to the gun and possibly the shooter. The fact that .38 ACP and .38 S&W are almost the same diameter is not surprising, since Browning used the .38 S&W as the basis for his experimental cartridges when he was working on his first pistol designs.

Jim
Jim K is offline  
Old July 12, 2015, 05:57 PM   #23
MCgunner
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 3, 2005
Location: The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Texas
Posts: 24,435
For those asking "why", I guess one does what one must do to shoot when ammo is not available at Walmart. Too bad there's no alternative for .22 rimfire. It's the only round I shoot that I don't handload. I've heard of the desperate Nagant owner shooting .32 S&W long out of desperation, cracked cases and all. Personally, I ain't in to Nagant revolvers.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Ben Franklin
MCgunner is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.