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Old October 12, 2011, 12:54 AM   #926
wlewisiii
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Yeah, sure. Here's a quickie shot with my digicrap camera. It's ragged yet because 1) I sliced my thumb good in the process and 2) I want to get a sander wheel for my dremmel to clean it up with. I did the intial cut with my pocket knife. Thankfully I do shoot slightly better than I cut... Despite the uglies, an HKS 36A will now drop 5 rounds of Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP +P in there slick as can be where the loader itself used to hang up on the surface of the grip which slowed things to the point that hand loading two at a time from belt loops was faster. I also feel that ejection of the spent casings is faster and easier though still not nearly as good as on a K frame. Reloading is still best done behind proper cover and concealment though at least now it can be done within a sane tactical timeframe.

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Old October 16, 2011, 08:37 PM   #927
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Got a new toy today...

Well someone better teach me the secret handshake, cause I just picked up the 642's cousin, a 638. Already put 50 rounds in it and got her all purty again. Just ordered a Mika Pocket Holster for her too.

If you don't mind, I'm off to go give my hands a workout an dry fire the things for awhile, with some snap caps.
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Old October 18, 2011, 12:21 PM   #928
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Nice, Chanroc

FYI for the club, i'm switching my ccw load from Speer 135 grain +P gold dots to Corbon 110 grain + P DPX rounds.

Three factors played into this decision:

1. My goal to eliminate lead from my pockets and my wife's purse. Even jacketed rounds can create lead dust from abrasion in the cylinders and from rubbing against things in the speedloaders. Lead residue is also left in the barrel and on the firearm when fired. This is a serious concern when your contact with infants is greater than your contact with perpetrators. Granted, some primer materials are made of lead, but i'm less concerned about primers degrading than bullets creating dust when carried and fired. The DPX is no jacket, all copper, and less of a concern.

2. Brassfetchers review of .38 and + P rounds in bone simulant followed by gel which was more favorable towards the DPX load. Evan has also reported favorable results from the + P loading of the DPX round.

3. The excellent feedback and customer service I've recieved from Mike and the Corbon team.

As a result, DPX has won over my .38 special carry and is also my preferred load in .44 special and .357 (except for my woods ccw is lead hardcast-yet this is seldom carried).

I still have 3 boxes of 50 count gold dot short barrel which i'll probably keep around, unless someone is in desperate need and makes an offer.

-Triple T

Last edited by Tony_the_tiger; October 18, 2011 at 02:16 PM.
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Old October 18, 2011, 06:39 PM   #929
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I would like to make application to the club, I think I have all the qualifications, I am a high school drop-out, My parents were never married and yes, I do take medication, That alone should put me in. But (If you insist) I did purchase a S&W 442, IMOP this is the ultimate CC weapon, I am putting in some quality time at the range and so far at out to 7 yrds I feel pretty comfortable. msn (p.s. I don't always take the meds)

I wish I could photo as good as some of you


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Old October 19, 2011, 01:34 PM   #930
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Welcome aboard chanroc and msnden. Enjoy your snubs. Always fun becoming profficient with a short barrel.

It's that time of the season.



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Last edited by DAdams; October 19, 2011 at 01:40 PM.
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Old October 20, 2011, 03:20 PM   #931
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"Oh - the 60 Pro grips really feel good, too. I hope my 5" 63 doesn't mind the new guy borrowing them...

Stainz"


Where do you find all those 60 Pro grips?!
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Old October 20, 2011, 07:03 PM   #932
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Yeah, yeah... start a fashion and everybody wants to join in. I tell you - you tell someone else - there goes the exclusivity. Well, the newest ones were $650 - last January - but they came with the rest of the new 3" 60 Pro! The other two pair came from S&W Accessories - but they aren't on the website! You need the 'special/secret handshake'. Take your left forefinger and place it on the tip of your nose. Dial 1-800-331-0852 - and opt for a parts order. Give the order taker SKU #411740000, description: 60 Pro grip. They were $42.97 + s/h + s/t. You can take your finger from your nose, too. Leave some for the next fashionista. Enjoy them!

Stainz

Update: S&W is currently out of stock, so I had to 'backorder' another one this AM. No problem - it fits a 'best seller' - so they'll have them before too long.

Last edited by Stainz; October 21, 2011 at 11:58 AM.
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Old October 24, 2011, 01:30 PM   #933
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Thanks Stainz!
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Old October 24, 2011, 03:32 PM   #934
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A brief comparison of premium .38 special carry ammo for the S&W 642/442

Featuring:

Left: Corbon DPX 110gr + P, All copper Barnes X-bullet
Right: Speer Gold Dot 135gr + P (short barrel), Copper plated and lead JHP

HKS 36-A speedloaders



Ballistics and notes:

Corbon DPX

Velocity (ft/s): 1050 out of a 442
Energy (in foot pounds): 269

Mike @corbon sent me a pdf file including a documented chronograph screen showing 1055 ft/s out of a 442. Reportedly, it penetrated 15" through 4 layers of denim and 10% ballistic gel. Recovered diameter was .66". This load differs from previous Corbon DPX .38 special offerings in standard pressure. Corbon increased the pressure to +P pressure, reportedly due to keyholing/angling in the standard pressure version. All data in this report refer exclusively to the +P version. The group at stopping power tested this load out of a 642 which triangulates well with Mike's data. The round penetrated 15.5" through 4 layers of denim and gel and expanded to .520 cal. High velocity of 1143, low of 1091, average of 1110. Stopping powers test also noted that this round was the only .38 round tested to successfully penetrate a truck door. This load also tested favorably @ brass fetcher among other premium .38 special loads.These come in Brass cases.

Speer Gold Dot (short barrel .38 + P)

Velocity (ft/s): 860
Energy (in foot pounds):222

Speer has a fine reputation amongst law enforcement. This round is specifically engineered to expand at the lower end of velocities for +p offerings in this caliber. Reports on the net have indicated successful expansion through gelatin, however brass fetcher's testing with bone plate simulations indicated the round did not expand at all. This round tested favorably on tnoutdoors9 youtube review, although it was noted that velocity out of a s&w 438 with 2" barrel was averaging 835 ft/s. In the same test, the round penetrated a little over 12" in tnoutdoors "simtest media". Other reviews have chronographed them @ 921 ft/s out of a 642. The stopping power net guys shot this out of a s&w 649 and averaged about 895 ft/s with impressive expansion. This data refers exclusively to the 135 gold dot and not the 125 gr gold dot. These come in nickel-plated cases.

Decision

Well, this is no surprise to most of you since I posted it up farther on the same page, but I have carried the gold dot but have now switched to the Corbon load. Part of it is I just don't like carrying lead - lead poisoning is common among shooters and I don't want to track it home to my wife and kids or get it all over the firearm and in the barrel when shooting. For this reason, all my carry guns are loaded with all copper bullets. I have met Mike from Corbon because he flew down to my house when I had concerns about a box of ammo - I know they stand behind their product.

Speer is a premium manufacturer of ammo and I have only good things to say about the gold dot line of ammunition, other than the presence of lead. I'm not sure which is better for defense as the gold dot is 20 grains heavier than the DPX load, yet the DPX load is approximately 200 ft/s faster than the gold dot. Both should perform adequately, although DPX may be a better penetrator, the final word is out on that as test results vary. I still have boxes of gold dot in multiple calibers in storage and will probably keep them there for some time. Corbons offerings tend to be slightly more expensive than Speers, especially since the gold dots can be bought in LE marked boxes with a 50 roundcount.

For me, the product justified the expense, and you'll find me carrying DPX loads now in .38 special + P, .357 magnum, and .44 special

The intent of this post is not to claim that one round is superior to the other, but rather to give context to my choice and provide data from a number of sources for others looking to compare the two rounds.



-Triple T

Last edited by Tony_the_tiger; October 24, 2011 at 03:38 PM.
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Old October 24, 2011, 09:51 PM   #935
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Thanks for the report triple T. Did you Flitz the rounds? Nice touch.
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Old October 24, 2011, 10:48 PM   #936
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Thanks DA. No flitz, just took both sets out of a new box and stuck them in generous sunlight for the photo op
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Old October 24, 2011, 10:53 PM   #937
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I carry the DPX due to reduced recoil when compared to all other +P rounds (especially the 135gr Gold Dot load). The documented ability of the Barnes bullet to expand after penetrating barriers is icing on the cake.
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Old October 24, 2011, 11:42 PM   #938
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It's a interesting post - thank you for it. I'll personally continue to shoot/carry the Buffalo Bore 158gr. LSWCHP +P round but my range is outdoors which makes a fair bit of difference on the lead issue. It's good to know what else is out there.
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Old October 25, 2011, 08:33 AM   #939
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Thanks Triple T for the review.

I recently switched from Buffalo Bore's 158gr LSWCHP +P to Speer 135gr Gold Dot HPSB. I switched due to what I perseve to be quality issues with the one box of BB I have, I am not suggesting that BB ammo is of poor quality just my one box,Z the bullets creeped out stretching the OAL by 0.02. If these work their way out simply being carried what will they due if I actually shot the gun with them in the cyclinder. I don't want to experience a cylinder lock up when I need my 642.

I would like to try the Corbon DPX +P as they have great reviews and do seem to perform well. I struggle getting past my "Go Heavy for Caliber" rule for carry ammo.
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Old October 25, 2011, 09:35 AM   #940
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The 135gr gold dots are great for ccw. I agree with you that heavy for caliber is appealing especially when dealing with a .38 special. But I have to wonder if the 25gr advantage of the gold dots outweigh the 200 ft/s velocity advantage of the DPX.

My guess is that if both are put on target they would do the job. So the question becomes which ones you want in your pocket everyday which will be based on brand preference, metal preference, and personal variables.

Re: the BB lead loads - all lead rounds tend to jump crimp a bit in lighter guns. This has not been a problem for me in any Corbon DPX or Speer JHP load i've tested in firearms that weight 10 - 20 ounces. Chances are if you contact BB they'll make it right by you.
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Old October 28, 2011, 12:21 AM   #941
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Favorite cousin....



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Old October 28, 2011, 05:48 AM   #942
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My wife rated the Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWC's as unacceptable when shot from my 642, "I don't like those.... you should shoot what my 2" 10 uses!". Yeah, it had the same ammo in it... twice plus the mass helps!

Incidently, years ago, I chrono-ed theat ammo and consistently got 840 fps from the 642 - but my last tests yielded 860 fps - both times the SD was 9-10 fps for five rounds. Lot to lot variation, or different range chrono's, perhaps. They do an impressive job dispatching 2L pop bottles full of water. The center of the cap is hard to find; the geyser of water not withstanding. Huge exit hole, too. I no longer fear attacks by marauding pop bottles...

Oh... my wife didn't like my mildish 125gr loads in the 642 - she revealed that she really didn't like the 642 - especially, it's grips. She loves the 2" 10 - and it's grips - some Ahrends goncalo alves rounded/fg stocks I fitted to her hand years ago. It helps to have grips acceptable to the shooter. As my 642 is a dedicated pocket protector for me, it's OEM boots are fine for me. Besides, my wife likes her Seecamp .32 as her pocket gun - doubt that will ever change. The 2" 10 is her car/bedside protection.

Stainz
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Old October 30, 2011, 03:33 PM   #943
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Okay, gonna remove the ILS...

I purchased my 642-2 way back when the 642 club was still in part 1 and 200 pages long. I had just received my CHL (concealed handgun license) in Ohio and my brother had suggested the 642 as a pocket carry and to read the 642 club thread. WOW... I spent almost an entire weekend reading through 200 some pages of posts. Needless to say, the reading convinced me to purchase the gun (and a Mika holster as well!) Both purchases I am still very glad to have made.

However, while reading, I also learned of the infamous ILS issue and as luck would have it, MY 642 had the lock. I researched the web as much as I could and came to the conclusion that the "issue", IMO, was a somewhat exaggerated one. Lock failures were extremely rare and it seemed the reason many disdained the lock was more political than practical (i.e. S&W caving in to the Clintonites). Now, *I* have issue with the caving, but that in itself would not be a reason not to own my 642 or have stopped me from purchasing the one I now own.

Reason being that, again, I think the chance of failure is extremely slim and I carry this as a SD pocket carry and not firing it on a daily basis. PLUS (and a big "plus") was that I got a great deal on the 642 and a factory issued C/T laser grips. I LOVE the laser grip (305) and at the price I got the combo for, it was not offered in a non-lock model. It's a whole different thread when discussing laser vs non-laser, but in my experience in dry firing/point and shoot practicing - the laser makes me feel far more confident if the situation does arise where I have to draw and shoot with adrenaline coursing through my veins.

Now, having said all that - why do I now choose to remove the ILS? Well, I guess in a small part it was political in own way... (that still does mean something)... but in a practical way - even though I still believe the chances of failure are remote - that meant that chance is THERE. In the communication field in which I work, it is rule of thumb when circuits are designed to keep potential "points of failure" to a minimum. How much more so should this hold true when considering my life may depend on that added point of failure actually failing?

Sooo... short story long, I have decided to remove the locks and have ordered a plug - not so much for aesthetics (though that's nice), but that I don't want an open hole where dirt/dust/lint can enter and possibly causing a failure in itself. I think I will be happy in doing so. Certainly will get that little bug out of my head about a not-quite-perfect weapon in my pocket. I guess I just felt some folk view the ILS as almost demonic! Doing it all over again, IF I could get the same deal with the laser grip combo on a non-lock 642, yep I would do that.

But hopefully this time next week, I will feel just a wee bit better knowing what I carry is "all that it can be..."
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Old October 30, 2011, 08:19 PM   #944
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How significantly dies your crane/yoke move? When locked up, I can wiggle my cylinder around, though when I hold the crane against the frame the wiggle goes away. Just wondering the appropriate amount of play in the cylinder.
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Old October 31, 2011, 08:00 AM   #945
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There is a sticky at the top of the Revolver Forum that will help you answer your question. Try it.
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Old October 31, 2011, 08:50 PM   #946
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Nice looking rig there photoman, and the photos are really nice too! Guess that's why they call you the photoman. Sweet looking grips. Nice birdseye too.
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Old November 1, 2011, 01:06 PM   #947
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Thanks DAdams. Wish I still had all the studio equipment from the old days.
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Old November 3, 2011, 08:59 PM   #948
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Old November 4, 2011, 06:50 AM   #949
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That be a sharp looking pocket holster Photoman.
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Old November 4, 2011, 07:31 AM   #950
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That is a VERY nice pocket holster; who made it?
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