642 Club Part Three - Page 44

Friar Whently · June 6, 2012, 12:37 AM

Hey Tony,

I recently purchased the 640 Pro as well, and sorry to hear about your troubles with it. For the record, mine has been 100% since I got it. I do have a few questions though if you don't mind:

1. How did the .357 shoot? Mine shoots low if I use any .357 less than 158 gr weight. Otherwise it's very accurate.
2. Regarding Altamonts...how is the width compared to the stock 3-fingered rubber grips? Wider? Slimmer? The same? I haven't tried out any other grips on my 640, but the narrow stock grips seem to distribute the recoil in a fairly concentrated, narrow on my hand leaving it a little sore after a range trip. Perhaps I'm just used to by big fat Hogue grips on my big fat Beretta 92...

Thanks!

Tony_the_tiger · June 6, 2012, 11:01 AM

Welcome to the high road, Friar Whently. The stock rubber grips are superior for recoil reduction. The altamont boot grips are just about as hard as metal and leave the backstrap open to boot. There dual purpose is a)aesthetics and b)ease of concealment and draw. I would say they are slightly thinner than the stock banana grips, but wider than crimson trace 405's, and likewise wider than the current factory boot grips on other j frames. I can get a good purchase on them if I tuck the pinky under the boot.

In my limited experience shooting the 640 pro, the Speer gold dot 135 grain .38 + P had lowest recoil and best accuracy and the Corbon DPX 110 grain .38 + P was also easy on the hands and quite accurate. Both loads pack a punch in my model 442. The Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP .38 + P and the Corbon DPX 125 grain .357 magnum had about the same recoil. I found both to be accurate provided I did my job and pulled the trigger back in one smooth but firm stroke. I could get both to point of aim on a 5/5/5/5 drill (five rounds in five seconds at five yards in a five inch radius). I've found in my own shooting with the 442 that flinching, an expectation of recoil, or a low grip can cause it to shoot low. If I get a good purchase high on the backstrap and focus to eliminate expectation of recoil and flinching accuracy is greatly improved. I recall that I was pleased with the accuracy of the .357 DPX and it was not more unpleasant to shoot than the 158 grain buffalo bore load + P. Verdict is out to which of those two I will carry and dependent on more testing. At the end of the range session I had a blister sized chunk of skin ripped off the inner surface of my thumb but no bleeding. If you have arthritis or carpal tunnel or are recoil sensitive, stick with the +P loadings. That said I find it can be accurate with .357 albeit the DPX load is a moderately loaded round compared to other factory offerings.

Corbon indicated to me that testing of the 125 grain DPX round out of a 2" barrel got them 1085 ft/s velocity with a penetration of 14" and ending diameter of .70" in 10% ballistic gelatin. That is excellent performance even at the snub level (testing out of a 4" barrel puts that round to about 1300 ft/s.

I'll let y'all know which one I intend to carry although in either case I expect the DPX to remain in the speedloaders/moonclips to avoid lead in the pockets. All said and done I might just carry the DPX + P in speedloaders to serve as potential reloads for the 640 and the 442. The 442 is currently loaded with 135 grain + P gold dots with the DPX as backups and as I indicated earlier i'll decide to go with the BB + P or DPX .357 based on further testing. I did decide to let S&W take it back on their dime just for peace of mind. Its possible the ftf was due to some combination of moonclip and primer placement however its nothing a good factory checkup, perhaps a beefier firing pin, and further testing can't iron out. Now all this thread needs is more pics of J frames and I'll leave that up to you

In the meantime i'll be woods carrying the Gp100 which can outperform the 640 any day but compromises in weight, comfort, and concealability.

YJake · June 6, 2012, 08:02 PM

In a 640 I'd carry the .38 SWCHP+P Buffalo Bore like I do now in my 442. It ejects easier than a .357 load and is very manageable in a steel J-frame. Not to mention much less flash and noise.

-Jake

Tony_the_tiger · June 6, 2012, 11:52 PM

Those rounds out of the 442 would probably rip my thumb off

lg&m · June 10, 2012, 05:50 PM

The .38 SWCHP+P Buffalo Bore looks to be a impressive round. I would like to give them a try some day.

Warp · June 10, 2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lg&m

The .38 SWCHP+P Buffalo Bore looks to be a impressive round. I would like to give them a try some day.

It'll leave an impression, alright.

YJake · June 10, 2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

It'll leave an impression, alright.

This man speaks the truth, be sure to try it one handed first

-Jake

Nematocyst · June 10, 2012, 07:59 PM

^ <Snickers>

One-handed double taps!
Breakfast of champions!

Warp · June 10, 2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJake

This man speaks the truth, be sure to try it one handed first

-Jake

If you are like me you'll quickly find yourself shopping for an aftermarket grip.

Pachmayr Compact for me.

Nematocyst · June 10, 2012, 08:46 PM

Mine wears Hogue monogrips, a full grip.

But then, I don't pocket carry.

YJake · June 10, 2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

If you are like me you'll quickly find yourself shopping for an aftermarket grip.

Pachmayr Compact for me.

You know, I like the benefits, are those larger than the stock grips by a large margin?

Do they provide for a better trigger pull due to size? (Does that make sense?

)

-Jake

Warp · June 10, 2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJake

You know, I like the benefits, are those larger than the stock grips by a large margin?

Do they provide for a better trigger pull due to size? (Does that make sense?

)

-Jake

Larger than stock? Definitely.

By a large margin? Open for debate or interpretation.

I didn't notice anything with trigger pull or trigger reach. I just noticed that it wasn't downright painful to fire the +P Buffalo Bore 158gr load. I still pocket carry it with that grip, but with my pants that have smaller pockets the bottom/end of the grip can peak a little bit from time to time.

Old Bull Lee · June 11, 2012, 12:07 PM

I can pocket carry just fine with the Hogue Monogrip. I use a Mika holster in work pants or tactical pants. Even in regular pockets I don't think it makes a huge difference - it's about a fingerwidth more black rubber, but it's actually less noticeable because the backstrap metal isn't showing.

Where it does make a huge difference is in getting a more solid grip when drawing and in shooting. The trigger pull is much better, especially if you have long fingers. Recoil control is 300% improved and post-shooting soreness is significantly reduced.

YMMV of course.

Nematocyst · June 11, 2012, 12:43 PM

I'm a small guy, Lee. Well, tall but thin.

So, if I try to pocket carry even with small grips,
it looks like I'm carrying a double cheeseburger and fries in my pocket.

Plus, I need my pockets for other stuff.

So, I just go for the OWB.

Old Bull Lee · June 12, 2012, 11:23 AM

I'm thin too, Nematocyst. But I can see tall thin pants being a problem. I think big pockets and somewhat loose-fitting clothes are the key.

Another thing: if you keep stuff in your opposite side pocket (cellphone, keys, etc.) it balances things out. Both my pockets look like they have a meal in them.

I used to go OWB myself, but it just got too awkward after a while. Now I only OC that way, when clothes are a non-issue.

Nematocyst · June 12, 2012, 01:18 PM

Glad it works for you, Lee.

But in my life, both personal and professional,
bulging pockets are just not an option.

NeilK · June 13, 2012, 09:04 AM

New to board. Getting a 642 on 6/15. 1) Can you use Ballistrol, CLP or Gunzilla with out destroying the finish. 2) Is it the consensus that it is best not to use + P in J frames. Thank you for any responses and sorry if it has been covered before.

Old Bull Lee · June 13, 2012, 02:26 PM

1) I use CLP on mine, no finish problems. I'm not sure if it will bother the lacquer on the aluminum parts long-term, but according to other posters here that lacquer will wear off one day anyway.

2) If a j-frame is rated for +P (and 642s are) then it's a matter of personal preference. To me the recoil difference is hardly noticeable. Be sure to research this thread for the best kinds of +P though - some like the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr are optimized for shorter barrels.

NeilK · June 13, 2012, 02:45 PM

Kept reading not to use + P in J frames but many of the posts show that is your carry rounds. Thanks for your response.

YJake · June 13, 2012, 02:52 PM

The gun is rated for +P ammunition, so therefore it is safe to use it. Check the barrel on your gun to verify, older models were not marked so.

-Jake

sixgunner455 · June 13, 2012, 02:54 PM

Older Airweight J frames are not rated for +p, newer ones are. The all-steel ones should all be fine with it. Some people don't mind shooting +p in an Airweight, some do. You'll have to try it out for yourself, to see what you think.

I like standard pressure 125 gr HP best in my 642 because I hit with them best, shot to shot recovery is best for me, but I have carried and shot +p 125 and 158 gr, when that was what I could get.

NeilK · June 13, 2012, 04:33 PM

Many non J frame people have opinions that differ from the real world experience of the people on this board so thanks for clearing that up.

Old Bull Lee · June 14, 2012, 12:51 PM

Non j-frame people? Man you can't listen to them if you want to hang out here.

All joking aside a snubby, +P or not, has its disadvantages and if you're used to shooting a typical defensive autopistol the snubby can be a challenge.

The snubby also has its advantages though. You can work on trigger control and the other fundamentals while the other guys are doing malfunction drills.

Stainz · June 14, 2012, 05:21 PM

I shot half a box of 148gr LWC (ZERO reloads - $7.48/50 on sale locally last fall) and a few Montana Gold 125gr JHP over 4.2gr Titegroup homebrews from my 642 this AM. Very similar bounce - easy shooters - had to wait for the smoke to clear to see , otherwise the 148gr full wadcutters are perfect 642 fodder for the recoil-shy. I'll keep it stoked with Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWCs - a bit more bounce, but potent. I EDC 24/7 my 642 with OEM boots in a pocket Mika holster - always reassuring to ping those five SPC plates rapidly with it - and those +P's! I am ready for attacks by marauding SPC targets now...

Someone doesn't like J-frames? Say it isn't so! I've had each of these guys out to the range in the last two trips - today and last Thursday - they are fun! For proper perspective, I am volumetrically and gravitationally challenged - and started my S&W revolver life with 4" N-frames. These little guys are just fun! Maybe it's the grips??

The 3" 63 (.22LR) pegs the fun-o-meter. The 4" 651 (.22 WMR) is neat... but loud and flashy. The 3" 60 Pro pretty well tames the Remington +P's that bounce in the 642. The 2 1/8" 632 Pro (.327 Federal Magnum) is miserable with 100gr JSP .327 Fed Magnums - makes 1400 fps! My old GA Arms 100gr JHP .32 H&RM were loud, flashy, and bouncy; my homebrew .32 S&WLs, 96gr LRNFPs, are great plinkers. A few 60gr JHP .32 ACPs were uneventful; the last of my .32 S&W antiques left me wondering if they went off. One little J-frame and five different calibers. Yeah, J-frames are neat. Fun day, despite the heat. Always good to find out that my carry gun(s) functions perfectly, IL and all!

Stainz

lg&m · June 17, 2012, 06:00 PM

" This man speaks the truth, be sure to try it one handed first "

-Jake

I Ain't Skeered

June 10, 2012, 05:50 PM	#1080
lg&m Member Join Date: January 2, 2008 Location: Kind of in the middle. Posts: 73	The .38 SWCHP+P Buffalo Bore looks to be a impressive round. I would like to give them a try some day. __________________ What a great day to be outside.

June 10, 2012, 07:59 PM	#1083
Nematocyst Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: 44°N x 69°W Posts: 11,610	^ <Snickers> One-handed double taps! Breakfast of champions! __________________ ______________ Blades, Levers, Sticks & Wheels

June 10, 2012, 08:46 PM	#1085
Nematocyst Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: 44°N x 69°W Posts: 11,610	Mine wears Hogue monogrips, a full grip. But then, I don't pocket carry. __________________ ______________ Blades, Levers, Sticks & Wheels

June 11, 2012, 12:43 PM	#1089
Nematocyst Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: 44°N x 69°W Posts: 11,610	I'm a small guy, Lee. Well, tall but thin. So, if I try to pocket carry even with small grips, it looks like I'm carrying a double cheeseburger and fries in my pocket. Plus, I need my pockets for other stuff. So, I just go for the OWB. __________________ ______________ Blades, Levers, Sticks & Wheels

June 12, 2012, 01:18 PM	#1091
Nematocyst Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: 44°N x 69°W Posts: 11,610	Glad it works for you, Lee. But in my life, both personal and professional, bulging pockets are just not an option. __________________ ______________ Blades, Levers, Sticks & Wheels

June 6, 2012, 12:37 AM	#1076
Friar Whently Member Join Date: May 31, 2012 Posts: 18	Hey Tony, I recently purchased the 640 Pro as well, and sorry to hear about your troubles with it. For the record, mine has been 100% since I got it. I do have a few questions though if you don't mind: 1. How did the .357 shoot? Mine shoots low if I use any .357 less than 158 gr weight. Otherwise it's very accurate. 2. Regarding Altamonts...how is the width compared to the stock 3-fingered rubber grips? Wider? Slimmer? The same? I haven't tried out any other grips on my 640, but the narrow stock grips seem to distribute the recoil in a fairly concentrated, narrow on my hand leaving it a little sore after a range trip. Perhaps I'm just used to by big fat Hogue grips on my big fat Beretta 92... Thanks!

June 6, 2012, 11:01 AM	#1077
Tony_the_tiger Member Join Date: January 3, 2011 Posts: 467	Welcome to the high road, Friar Whently. The stock rubber grips are superior for recoil reduction. The altamont boot grips are just about as hard as metal and leave the backstrap open to boot. There dual purpose is a)aesthetics and b)ease of concealment and draw. I would say they are slightly thinner than the stock banana grips, but wider than crimson trace 405's, and likewise wider than the current factory boot grips on other j frames. I can get a good purchase on them if I tuck the pinky under the boot. In my limited experience shooting the 640 pro, the Speer gold dot 135 grain .38 + P had lowest recoil and best accuracy and the Corbon DPX 110 grain .38 + P was also easy on the hands and quite accurate. Both loads pack a punch in my model 442. The Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP .38 + P and the Corbon DPX 125 grain .357 magnum had about the same recoil. I found both to be accurate provided I did my job and pulled the trigger back in one smooth but firm stroke. I could get both to point of aim on a 5/5/5/5 drill (five rounds in five seconds at five yards in a five inch radius). I've found in my own shooting with the 442 that flinching, an expectation of recoil, or a low grip can cause it to shoot low. If I get a good purchase high on the backstrap and focus to eliminate expectation of recoil and flinching accuracy is greatly improved. I recall that I was pleased with the accuracy of the .357 DPX and it was not more unpleasant to shoot than the 158 grain buffalo bore load + P. Verdict is out to which of those two I will carry and dependent on more testing. At the end of the range session I had a blister sized chunk of skin ripped off the inner surface of my thumb but no bleeding. If you have arthritis or carpal tunnel or are recoil sensitive, stick with the +P loadings. That said I find it can be accurate with .357 albeit the DPX load is a moderately loaded round compared to other factory offerings. Corbon indicated to me that testing of the 125 grain DPX round out of a 2" barrel got them 1085 ft/s velocity with a penetration of 14" and ending diameter of .70" in 10% ballistic gelatin. That is excellent performance even at the snub level (testing out of a 4" barrel puts that round to about 1300 ft/s. I'll let y'all know which one I intend to carry although in either case I expect the DPX to remain in the speedloaders/moonclips to avoid lead in the pockets. All said and done I might just carry the DPX + P in speedloaders to serve as potential reloads for the 640 and the 442. The 442 is currently loaded with 135 grain + P gold dots with the DPX as backups and as I indicated earlier i'll decide to go with the BB + P or DPX .357 based on further testing. I did decide to let S&W take it back on their dime just for peace of mind. Its possible the ftf was due to some combination of moonclip and primer placement however its nothing a good factory checkup, perhaps a beefier firing pin, and further testing can't iron out. Now all this thread needs is more pics of J frames and I'll leave that up to you In the meantime i'll be woods carrying the Gp100 which can outperform the 640 any day but compromises in weight, comfort, and concealability.

June 6, 2012, 08:02 PM	#1078
YJake Member Join Date: June 2, 2010 Posts: 132	In a 640 I'd carry the .38 SWCHP+P Buffalo Bore like I do now in my 442. It ejects easier than a .357 load and is very manageable in a steel J-frame. Not to mention much less flash and noise. -Jake

June 6, 2012, 11:52 PM	#1079
Tony_the_tiger Member Join Date: January 3, 2011 Posts: 467	Those rounds out of the 442 would probably rip my thumb off

June 11, 2012, 12:07 PM	#1088
Old Bull Lee Member Join Date: October 1, 2009 Posts: 35	I can pocket carry just fine with the Hogue Monogrip. I use a Mika holster in work pants or tactical pants. Even in regular pockets I don't think it makes a huge difference - it's about a fingerwidth more black rubber, but it's actually less noticeable because the backstrap metal isn't showing. Where it does make a huge difference is in getting a more solid grip when drawing and in shooting. The trigger pull is much better, especially if you have long fingers. Recoil control is 300% improved and post-shooting soreness is significantly reduced. YMMV of course.

June 12, 2012, 11:23 AM	#1090
Old Bull Lee Member Join Date: October 1, 2009 Posts: 35	I'm thin too, Nematocyst. But I can see tall thin pants being a problem. I think big pockets and somewhat loose-fitting clothes are the key. Another thing: if you keep stuff in your opposite side pocket (cellphone, keys, etc.) it balances things out. Both my pockets look like they have a meal in them. I used to go OWB myself, but it just got too awkward after a while. Now I only OC that way, when clothes are a non-issue.

June 13, 2012, 09:04 AM	#1092
NeilK Member Join Date: June 13, 2012 Posts: 5	Cleaning 642 New to board. Getting a 642 on 6/15. 1) Can you use Ballistrol, CLP or Gunzilla with out destroying the finish. 2) Is it the consensus that it is best not to use + P in J frames. Thank you for any responses and sorry if it has been covered before. Last edited by NeilK; June 13, 2012 at 01:15 PM. Reason: got it backwards

June 13, 2012, 02:26 PM	#1093
Old Bull Lee Member Join Date: October 1, 2009 Posts: 35	1) I use CLP on mine, no finish problems. I'm not sure if it will bother the lacquer on the aluminum parts long-term, but according to other posters here that lacquer will wear off one day anyway. 2) If a j-frame is rated for +P (and 642s are) then it's a matter of personal preference. To me the recoil difference is hardly noticeable. Be sure to research this thread for the best kinds of +P though - some like the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr are optimized for shorter barrels.

June 13, 2012, 02:45 PM	#1094
NeilK Member Join Date: June 13, 2012 Posts: 5	Thanks Kept reading not to use + P in J frames but many of the posts show that is your carry rounds. Thanks for your response.

June 13, 2012, 02:52 PM	#1095
YJake Member Join Date: June 2, 2010 Posts: 132	The gun is rated for +P ammunition, so therefore it is safe to use it. Check the barrel on your gun to verify, older models were not marked so. -Jake

June 13, 2012, 02:54 PM	#1096
sixgunner455 Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 2,559	Older Airweight J frames are not rated for +p, newer ones are. The all-steel ones should all be fine with it. Some people don't mind shooting +p in an Airweight, some do. You'll have to try it out for yourself, to see what you think. I like standard pressure 125 gr HP best in my 642 because I hit with them best, shot to shot recovery is best for me, but I have carried and shot +p 125 and 158 gr, when that was what I could get. __________________ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly dog. - me If you can't hit a snake at 20 feet with a 12 gauge, you ain't gonna hit a dove, either. -McGunner

June 13, 2012, 04:33 PM	#1097
NeilK Member Join Date: June 13, 2012 Posts: 5	thanks again Many non J frame people have opinions that differ from the real world experience of the people on this board so thanks for clearing that up.

June 14, 2012, 12:51 PM	#1098
Old Bull Lee Member Join Date: October 1, 2009 Posts: 35	Non j-frame people? Man you can't listen to them if you want to hang out here. All joking aside a snubby, +P or not, has its disadvantages and if you're used to shooting a typical defensive autopistol the snubby can be a challenge. The snubby also has its advantages though. You can work on trigger control and the other fundamentals while the other guys are doing malfunction drills.

June 14, 2012, 05:21 PM	#1099
Stainz Member Join Date: April 24, 2003 Location: Pinson, AL Posts: 3,023	I shot half a box of 148gr LWC (ZERO reloads - $7.48/50 on sale locally last fall) and a few Montana Gold 125gr JHP over 4.2gr Titegroup homebrews from my 642 this AM. Very similar bounce - easy shooters - had to wait for the smoke to clear to see , otherwise the 148gr full wadcutters are perfect 642 fodder for the recoil-shy. I'll keep it stoked with Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWCs - a bit more bounce, but potent. I EDC 24/7 my 642 with OEM boots in a pocket Mika holster - always reassuring to ping those five SPC plates rapidly with it - and those +P's! I am ready for attacks by marauding SPC targets now... Someone doesn't like J-frames? Say it isn't so! I've had each of these guys out to the range in the last two trips - today and last Thursday - they are fun! For proper perspective, I am volumetrically and gravitationally challenged - and started my S&W revolver life with 4" N-frames. These little guys are just fun! Maybe it's the grips?? The 3" 63 (.22LR) pegs the fun-o-meter. The 4" 651 (.22 WMR) is neat... but loud and flashy. The 3" 60 Pro pretty well tames the Remington +P's that bounce in the 642. The 2 1/8" 632 Pro (.327 Federal Magnum) is miserable with 100gr JSP .327 Fed Magnums - makes 1400 fps! My old GA Arms 100gr JHP .32 H&RM were loud, flashy, and bouncy; my homebrew .32 S&WLs, 96gr LRNFPs, are great plinkers. A few 60gr JHP .32 ACPs were uneventful; the last of my .32 S&W antiques left me wondering if they went off. One little J-frame and five different calibers. Yeah, J-frames are neat. Fun day, despite the heat. Always good to find out that my carry gun(s) functions perfectly, IL and all! Stainz

June 17, 2012, 06:00 PM	#1100
lg&m Member Join Date: January 2, 2008 Location: Kind of in the middle. Posts: 73	" This man speaks the truth, be sure to try it one handed first " -Jake I Ain't Skeered __________________ What a great day to be outside.