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Old March 5, 2015, 10:53 AM   #1
19-3Ben
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Quality of entrenching tools?

I have always kept an old WW2 (the big one!) surplus entrenching tool in my break-down kit in the car. Every so often it has come in handy. Here in the Northeast, we have some interesting winters and I've used it to dig ice and snow out from around my tires to get out.

Recently, I hit a patch of black ice, and skidded nose first into a snow bank. I needed to be winched out, and it was only due to my entrenching tool that I was able to remove the snow and ice that had made its way under the lip of my front bumper, so the whole bumper didn't tear off when pulling my car backward out of the snowbank. That tool saved a lot of body damage.

Now I want an E-tool in every one of our vehicles. My wife doesn't have one in her car. Aside from old surplus ones, are there any new manufacture ones that are good quality?
How do the folding handle model ones compare to the ones with a straight shaft and folding spade?
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Old March 5, 2015, 11:17 AM   #2
ugaarguy
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This is really an emergency prep thread and not a weapons thread. Unfortunately that puts it outside the scope of THR.
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Old March 5, 2015, 01:51 PM   #3
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Not sure I agree.

Not only are shovels good for general use in emergencies, they are one of the better improvised weapons available. A small shovel is a useful addition to a car kit, and I also usually keep one in my vehicle, along with a "come along".

Living in MD, that small shovel is one of the most useful improvised weapons I can legally keep in my vehicle.

Ben, in general, just as with knives, fixed shovels will be stronger than folding ones. Unless you plan on hiking with it, any quality small shovel works fine.
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Old March 5, 2015, 02:47 PM   #4
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A good compact shovel is an important part of any vehicle kit to help get you out of trouble (and can be pressed into defensive use if it comes to it). A flimsy one isn't worth having.
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Old March 5, 2015, 09:30 PM   #5
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I keep one in my pickup. It is a military surplus folding version with a wood handle. I found another newer version that folds up incredibly small. I'd ALMOST carry this version on a backpacking trip. Because of space limitations it stays in the Wrangler. They have come in handy for camp chores. I'd never considered them as a SD weapon, but see possibilities.

The small one. Mine has the same cover.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121583598352
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Old March 5, 2015, 09:33 PM   #6
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I have a compact Glock shovel thing in my truck for just that reason.image.jpg
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Old March 5, 2015, 09:36 PM   #7
ColtPythonElite
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You can get a Tru Tough compact shovel at the hardware store for 10 bucks. I carry one in my jeep when going off-road.
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Old March 5, 2015, 09:40 PM   #8
guyfromohio
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I think this Glock thing was like $12 or so. It's a Glock, so it's lighter, faster, and better than those things from WW2. Mmmmmkay?
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Old March 5, 2015, 09:48 PM   #9
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This Medal of Honor citation might qualify the e-tool as a weapon (at least to the 10-12 guys mentioned...):

http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/koreanwar.html
BROWN, MELVIN L.

Rank and organization: Private First Class, U.S. Army, Company D, 8th Engineer Combat Battalion.
Place and date: Near Kasan, Korea, 4 September 1950.
Entered service at: Erie, Pa.
G.O. No.: 11, 16 February 1951.
Citation: Pfc. Brown, Company D distinguished himself by conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action against the enemy. While his platoon was securing Hill 755 (the Walled City), the enemy, using heavy automatic weapons and small arms, counterattacked. Taking a position on a 50-foot-high wall he delivered heavy rifle fire on the enemy. His ammunition was soon expended and although wounded, he remained at his post and threw his few grenades into the attackers causing many casualties. When his supply of grenades was exhausted his comrades from nearby foxholes tossed others to him and he left his position, braving a hail of fire, to retrieve and throw them at the enemy. The attackers continued to assault his position and Pfc. Brown weaponless, drew his entrenching tool from his pack and calmly waited until they 1 by 1 peered over the wall, delivering each a crushing blow upon the head. Knocking 10 or 12 enemy from the wall, his daring action so inspired his platoon that they repelled the attack and held their position. Pfc. Brown's extraordinary heroism, gallantry, and intrepidity reflect the highest credit upon himself and was in keeping with the honored traditions of the military service. Reportedly missing in action and officially killed in action, September 5, 1950.
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Old March 5, 2015, 09:59 PM   #10
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A number of Glock e-tools were bought up by several DOD units who worked in an area that did not allow them to be armed with firearms. Shovel edges were brought to a decent hone. With the issue case hung on the belt it was only mildly obvious under a BDU top.
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Old March 5, 2015, 11:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
It's a Glock, so it's lighter, faster, and better than those things from WW2. Mmmmmkay?
Please quantify your assertion.
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Old March 6, 2015, 01:00 AM   #12
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Gosh, Closed, Opened, but only opened so only mods could post in it this afternoon.
Now open to everyone again???
Which is it???

I PM'd the OP today with this when it was closed to all but mods.
Haven't heard back from him.

Quote:
E-Tools thread
Sorry your thread got shot down.
It could have had some good discussion.
(And who says an e-tool isn't a weapon??
The U.S. Army thought it was when I went through basic training!)

Anyway, here are a few suggestions.

http://www.amazon.com/Military-Origi.../dp/B004SOPJG4

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SOG-F08-N-...-Tool/14220155


I have carried a Glock E-Tool in my truck for about 20 years and I like it a lot.
Expensive, but like all Glock products, very good.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...8WDBTXJQGY581B

http://www.opticsplanet.com/glock-entrenching-tool.html

You can also get by a lot cheaper with a good quality small garden shovel from Home Depot.

http://t.homedepot.com/p/HDX-10-75-i...003/205601369/
Sorry, I can't 'quantify' that about the Glock either.
Other then to say I was issued all the U.S. Army models between late WWII heavy folding steel, and later heavier folding steel with a pick-ax Vietnam model.

The Plastic & steel Glock E-Tool is lighter, faster, smaller when folded, rust-proof, already sharpened on 3 of 4 edges, and just as capable to dig your truck out, or chop somebody's head off with.

They would be as fearsome as a Viking Ax in close quarters combat!

I like them.

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Last edited by rcmodel; March 6, 2015 at 02:28 AM.
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Old March 6, 2015, 01:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
It's a Glock, so it's lighter, faster, and better than those things from WW2. Mmmmmkay?
Please quantify your assertion.

Sarcasm poking fun at the Glock/1911 debate. really?
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Old March 6, 2015, 07:32 AM   #14
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I've always considered an E-tool as part of my vehicle kit. Can't tell you anything about newer versions but that old GI surplus folder is a heckuva a lot tougher than my hands in either digging mode or as an improvised weapon for bad breath ranges...
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Old March 6, 2015, 09:59 AM   #15
TEAM101
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I have the Glock e-tool and a Cold Steel shovel. If I need to bust cinder blocks, crack a skull, lop off an appendage, chop down a tree, dig a hole, paddle a canoe, or need something to cook a steak on, I'll take the CS every time. The Glock tool is flimsy, but more compact.
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Old March 6, 2015, 11:05 AM   #16
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Yes, I was going to recommend the Cold Steel model also which is a replica of the one used by Spetsnaz. It is also the best weapon.

As a grunt, I've been using the Army issue E-tool since the early 90s, it will scrape out a shallow fighting position and it is compact, but not all that strong or user friendly.
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Old March 6, 2015, 12:02 PM   #17
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Another vote for the Cold Steel shovel. I've had mine since they first came out and it has done service as a pry bar, machete, club, tent stake, and of course a digging tool. I use it all the time.
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Old March 6, 2015, 01:24 PM   #18
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Hello,

SOG makes a pretty neat e-tool as well. They have an option with a triangular handle which would come in handy for less than optimal angles, IMO.


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Old March 6, 2015, 01:52 PM   #19
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Anyone who thinks an entrenching tool/shovel is not a weapon, has never seen a Spetsnaz throw one. It is my good fortune that I never had one used against me in a close situation. With sharpened edges it double as a light axe.

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Old March 6, 2015, 08:09 PM   #20
19-3Ben
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Quote:
I PM'd the OP today with this when it was closed to all but mods.
Haven't heard back from him.
Yes, I apologize for that, RC. I appreciated your PM and as always, your level of wisdom backed up by "been there done that" is a marvel to me.

I am just finally getting back to the forum today. Things have been hectic the past few days, especially going to car dealerships and hammering out a deal for a new car since the accident which I mentioned in my OP.

It turns out that yesterday I was passing my favorite Army-Navy surplus store. They are one of the few surplus stores that actually has real surplus, rather than new "Hecho en China" stuff that happens to be camouflage.

I bought a US army surplus tri-fold shovel for $20 and the rubber sheath thingy that goes with it. I will likely still get another shovel, but at that price, it was good enough that I decided to go for it.

I'm very glad this thread was reopened, and I thank the mods for deciding that it could stay open since the shovel is both a tool and a weapon. Admittedly, part of my break down kit is a 16" Estiwing campers axe, as well as a tire thumper. Those would probably be chosen as weapons before the shovel, but the shovel is certainly a very viable weapon. Per the Medal of Honor citation that Citadel references, it can be quite a fearsome weapon too!

I wonder if there are any specific martial arts that have transferrable skill to shovel combat...
Stick fighting? Axe fighting?

Either way, weather as a weapon or as a digging tool, I really see tremendous value in having one in every car.
Thanks to all who have contributed to the thread.
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Old March 6, 2015, 11:20 PM   #21
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The ColdSteel is a nice $20-$30 option.

Then there the Crovel Shovel if you want to go super tactical.


Larger, less weapon-ish, but more versatile....

For a more full size item...I bought one of these 20+ yrs ago. They were about $100 cheaper then. (yikes) Great tool. Used by many foresty and rugged terrain fire fighters.

http://www.amazon.com/BILLET4X4-MAX-.../dp/B00MHY3S0Q


These get a good amount of respect too and if I was looking at something fullsize, and did have the one above, I probably get this. IMO, a really good value.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0017TB9Q2

+1 to RCs idea... those home depot and lowes $10-15 hand shovels and pick etc are pretty dang good.
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Old March 6, 2015, 11:39 PM   #22
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That little Home Depot shovel would fit nicely in my Subaru Forester. Might have to stop by there and pick one up.
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Old March 7, 2015, 12:36 AM   #23
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Shanghai
Hold off on buying one at Home Depot.

I will give you a 38" Ames, or a WWII folder when you come by next week.

I got more shovels then I got holes left to dig!!

Only gonna need one more, and somebody else will dig it.

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Last edited by rcmodel; March 7, 2015 at 12:58 AM.
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Old March 7, 2015, 01:49 AM   #24
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Wow that's cool RC. Wish I was coming over next week, you could yell at me in person but I'd love to meet you! LOL
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Old March 7, 2015, 07:55 AM   #25
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Thank You rc, I very much appreciate the offer.
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