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Old September 25, 2014, 12:59 PM   #1
Kaeto
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Duelist1954's latest video!

Duelist1954's latest video is telling of rule changes at the range he uses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuBfYCMHwcI


To me from the sound of these rules the Board is trying to drive shooters away so they can close the range, and probably sell the land to a developer.
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Old September 25, 2014, 01:37 PM   #2
col.lemat
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Mike it's time to move on. So many rules I could not remember them all. That's worse then here in So. California. I got rid of the first wife for less BS
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Old September 25, 2014, 04:18 PM   #3
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That is tough. I wonder what prompted all this.
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Old September 25, 2014, 05:36 PM   #4
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Those rules suck.
Was there some precipitating incident?
Did some "Angry Moms" manage to infiltrate the board?

Good luck.
Hope you can get the changes reversed or barring that, find a new range that is suitable.
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Old September 25, 2014, 05:43 PM   #5
g.willikers
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Our club did about the same thing.
By the time the board was finished with rewriting the rules, it was about the same as the public range.
After ten years as members, we didn't renew.
If we were going to suffer the same restrictions, we figured we might as well save a bunch of money and drive only about 1/3 the distance to the public range.
Yeah, hope Duelist finds a new home, soon.
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Old September 25, 2014, 07:23 PM   #6
72coupe
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Our range in Wichita Falls, Tx has many of the same rules.
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Old September 25, 2014, 07:35 PM   #7
Kaeto
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The DNR run public range I go to has less rules than that one does. Granted you can only use paper targets, but no caliber restrictions as long as you aren't shooting a Barret .50
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Old September 25, 2014, 09:55 PM   #8
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Wow. How disappointing that must be. Get a group together if you can and buy the place.
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Old September 25, 2014, 10:29 PM   #9
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Yo DUDES!

That's MY club where I am Match Director for IDPA.

We have suffered a very insidious form of "internal take-over" and some of our very closest friends have decided to respond to a few serious safety concerns with draconian and absurd rules laid down with a heavy hand, and deliberately behind the backs of the membership.

These rules have been voted DOWN before. A few individuals consolidated their power, got some pals elected to the board, and then waited a year and a half -- until no one was looking -- to put these up for a vote during a very lightly attended general meeting.

In a HOTLY contested 11-to-9 vote, 20 people got to choose yea or nay on the rules that govern over 1,600 member families.


...


BUT, this is going to be fixed. Nearly half of the Board of directors is fighting right along side the SASS and IDPA groups to get this thrown out. And our club elections are only two months away. THIS IS GOING TO BE FIXED, in some most sweeping and permanent ways.


Take home message: Even if you completely trust those that are supposed to represent you, keep your eyes peeled ALWAYS. Some folks really get their jollies stomping on others. And they may betray their most fundamental beliefs to do it.
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Old September 25, 2014, 10:34 PM   #10
DoubleDeuce 1
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Sam1911,

I hope you will prevail.
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Old September 25, 2014, 10:47 PM   #11
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Thank you!

You can only imagine just how much effort has already been expended in fighting this. I've personally sent and received between 250-300 emails with club members on this in the last couple of weeks. Spent probably 20 hours on the phone. Had multiple very uncomfortable and contentious meetings with perpetrators and those they were supposed to represent.

Made some new friends. Lost whole mountain ranges of respect for friends I thought I knew. Learned a lot about parliamentary procedure and organizational bylaws.


Learned that the world has indeed changed, and those who would restrict and limit other shooters AREN'T the "Fudds" or old sticks-in-the-mud. We've got our own aging "Tactical Teddy" set who -- after spending a lifetime to develop and ensure their right to practice "practical" shooting -- are willing to throw OTHER shooters under the bus and step on their rights to use the facilities.

When you protect the right of shooters to run-n-gun and train for defense, but you ELIMINATE the right of any shooter to fire a .38 Special lever-action rifle ... ON THE RIFLE RANGE ... it's like the freakin' Twilight Zone.
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Old September 25, 2014, 11:23 PM   #12
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As Mike kept talking in the video, the more mad I got. Such STUPID rules.

Is there any way members here on THR can e-mail someone in protest on these new restrictions?
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Old September 26, 2014, 12:03 AM   #13
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We really appreciate the support! In this case, if the folks who are doing this won't listen to their friends ... they aren't going to care what YOU think, either. (Sorry to be so hard about it, but that's it in a nutshell.)

Look -- I work hand-in-hand with two of the Board members responsible for this mess every month. One of them I see about SIXTY times a year, and have for the last 5 years. We are at this point, not just shooting pals but personal friends.

They lied DIRECTLY to me about this. It is an ugly, ugly thing to watch. I've had to say things to friends that broke my heart to say. (And they were said politely.) There is some deep, heavy manipulation of the Board members going on and it almost succeeded. Almost, but not quite.

I'm proud to say I've seen other folks stand up like champs and fight, not leave. And those stout-hearted members are going to run out the bad apples. I really believe that. But it will take about two more months of planning and "rabble rousing" to make it happen. I'm in it for the long-haul.

I'm very saddened though, because several of my pals have thrown their 20-30 year legacies with this Association on this pyre. We've asked them to work with us. Asked them to reconsider and agree to include the people they're supposed to represent. No. Rejected all entreaty. After this is over, they'll have a hard time showing their faces. Such a waste.
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Old September 26, 2014, 12:24 AM   #14
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Wow, this is really upsetting. So it looks like they they pushed Mike and the CAS folks and others in front of the bus when they werent looking just because they dont shoot tacticool stuff or skeet???
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Old September 26, 2014, 12:32 AM   #15
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Well, it's actually a lot more complicated than that, which just makes it harder to deal with. There's carve-outs and special exemptions for this, that, or the other. Lots of attempted pandering to try and bribe people to go along. Some of it quite blatant.

Lots of attempts to convince people not to read the new rules "so literally." (They're actually very sloppily written, though a lot of $0.50 words were used.)

One pal who I've respected deeply for a long time sat and told us to stop complaining as, "These rules aren't FOR us. They're not for YOU. They're for all the OTHER folks. ..."

Kind of makes you want to slap someone.
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Old September 26, 2014, 01:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Some folks really get their jollies stomping on others. And they may betray their most fundamental beliefs to do it.
Ain't that the truth Brother, ain't that the truth.
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Old September 26, 2014, 01:14 PM   #17
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This practice applies to more than just shooting clubs. How do you think towns and cities get the stupids? The lesson is that you must be involved in any organization in which you have a stake or an interest. Serve a term or two on the board, go to the meetings on a regular basis, check the minutes of meetings or the agendas of future meetings so you are aware of what is in play. As Sam said, not all things are done above board by these types of people but they are less likely to try to corrupt things if they know people are paying attention.
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Old September 26, 2014, 01:35 PM   #18
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I've seen this same issue in more than one club I've been with. Oh, not the board running amok. Instead the idea among the membership that there's nothing they can do about it so "we" might as well move on.

Folks, it's NOT an owned club. Or rather EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU has an equal share and owns it equally. The MEMBERSHIP elects the board. If the board doesn't represent the majority of the membership then VOTE THEM OUT and put in folks that will ably and fairly run the club based on common sense and rules that serve the majority.

But when the majority simply shrugs and leaves then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Sam, keep up the good fight. And take every chance you have to point out this truth to those that feel there's nothing they can do. Otherwise the club is doomed. And land for ranges simply does not grow on trees. Each range is a vast investment in both time and money. None of us can afford to simply give up and walk away.

And sorry Mike, but from the tone of your video I don't hear a lot of fight in you either. Yes, it's more work for you and others that want to see a return of common sense and wider use. But sometimes that's what is needed.

With such a strongly prevailing mood of fatalism in this and so many other clubs I have to wonder what would be the real outcome if someone waltzed into America and took things over. Would all the "shrug and move on" types rise up in arms or would they simply accept the new status quo and send their taxes in like usual?

And yes, I'm a frustrated member of two clubs where I see far too much of this nonsense and where "volunteer work days" result in the same 4 or 5 folks showing up.
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Old September 26, 2014, 01:55 PM   #19
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"With such a strongly prevailing mood of fatalism in this and so many other clubs I have to wonder what would be the real outcome if someone waltzed into America and took things over. Would all the "shrug and move on" types rise up in arms or would they simply accept the new status quo and send their taxes in like usual?"

I fear the large majority would make a sandwich and change the channel on TV...
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Old September 26, 2014, 10:12 PM   #20
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Heh... What's not apparent is that there is already a thundering hornets' nest swarming around the Board. Mike's video did a GREAT job of reaching out to some of those members (the vast majority in any club) who assume one set of rules is about as good as another and that club politics is just a silly waste of time.

Too many folks will sit by while their organization falls apart. Mike did exactly what was needed, at just the right moment.
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Old September 27, 2014, 05:57 AM   #21
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Saw the video and it seemed they were made specifically to run Mike off. If this is the norm, why do we let libs run our ranges?
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Old September 27, 2014, 04:32 PM   #22
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Most societies and clubs are run under the Robert's Rules of Order. And in those rules is a provision for the membership to put forth a motion of non confidence. If the motion passes by vote of the membership then the present board's sole and last duty at that moment is to announce and hold a General Meeting that is for the sole purpose of electing a new board.

The problem is that enough of the PO'ed rank and file needs to attend to out vote the Fudd board member's possy of followers. And that's where we run into an issue. We're talking the "silent majority" that doesn't like confrontation and doesn't really want to be there. The same ones that simply sigh and want to move on. Or that expect that "someone else" will take care of it.
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Old September 27, 2014, 06:05 PM   #23
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We have a whole lot of confidence that the Association elections in November will bring great and sweeping changes.

The current pres has already said he won't run again. Now we have to work on about four other seats. We really only need to win 2-3 seats to sweep this all away, but the more the merrier.
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Old September 27, 2014, 06:35 PM   #24
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...why do we let libs run our ranges?
Don't be an idiot. Do you really think that there's a liberal (or were you referring to a libertarian?) with an agenda has taken the time infiltrate the ranks of a small local firearms organization just to take it down little by little is a plausible scenario? The fact is that Mike and other WSSA members will be adversely affected by these new rules which are instituted by individuals who's affiliations you are completely ignorant to... nor are you privy to their motivations. Your attempt to blindly hold your personal demons accountable is just plain insipid and stupid.
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Old September 28, 2014, 05:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by diogenes415 View Post
don't be an idiot. Do you really think that there's a liberal (or were you referring to a libertarian?) with an agenda has taken the time infiltrate the ranks of a small local firearms organization just to take it down little by little is a plausible scenario? The fact is that mike and other wssa members will be adversely affected by these new rules which are instituted by individuals who's affiliations you are completely ignorant to... Nor are you privy to their motivations. Your attempt to blindly hold your personal demons accountable is just plain insipid and stupid.
lol
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