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Old December 11, 2011, 01:39 AM   #1
4895
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Tula Primers...What's your experience?

I bought a 1000 ct box of Tula small pistol primers at a gun show for $16. I thought for the money I would try them. My first test with them today, 50 rounds of 9mm, I had one fail to fire. I tried 3 times to get it to fire, it is doa. Anyone else use these primers? Should I expect 2% failure rate in the rest of them? Anyone want to buy 950 Tula small pistol primers?
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Old December 11, 2011, 04:35 AM   #2
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I never tried Tula, but I believe Wolf is the same thing. I haven't had any trouble with Wolf LP primers except a few that didn't ignite light loads of Enforcer. Upping the charge took care of that.
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Last edited by Sport45; December 11, 2011 at 07:29 AM. Reason: bad spelling...
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Old December 11, 2011, 05:48 AM   #3
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It's kinda funny that in all the ammo I have loaded, this is the first and only time where a primer failed. I will try the other 50 primers and if any fail, I will reserve them for the 'zombie horde' only. Of course, that won't work either as I would be eaten before I could mag, bump, tap, mag, slide, shoot my way out of a ftf.
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Old December 11, 2011, 09:31 AM   #4
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Now aboutthe only thing that I use in SP is Tula primers. I have read that there was a production run that had issues but I cannot remember the details, but it seems that the color of the primer was the way to tell (brass/nickle color). In my expierence they seem to be a good primer. I did a velocity test compairson with them and some CCIs and their velocity ranged within the extreame spread of the CCIs. They can be a little harder to seat.
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Old December 11, 2011, 09:36 AM   #5
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What type of gun did you try in? Depending on hardness you might get some that won't go bang in a gun with a weaker firing pin impact.

In any event, I'd say just load up some more and see how they do. If you get anymore duds just reserve them for practice usage. Save the ones that don't go bang, pull em, and reload them again.

Thankfully its only 1000 of them. If you'd bought 10k+ it probably would have been a bit more heartbreaking .
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Old December 11, 2011, 09:46 AM   #6
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I've only used a few thousand but no problems. I prefer them over others I've used.

You tried 50 & had 1 ftf now decide there is a 2% failure rate. I you are ready to make that conclusion on that small of a sample I bet you haven't even looked to see what you did wrong. If your not willing to take the time to cover all the bases or to even check a larger sample then your statement doesn't hold much credit.

It is way more likely you did something wrong. By my sample of 3-4K with 0% failure rate & you have a 2% makes it look like you don't know what you're doing. Just based off the information you have given.
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Old December 11, 2011, 09:52 AM   #7
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I think I would have to agree with you that it seems odd that until using these you never experienced any FTF's. I've been loading for 3+ decades and have yet to experience one single FTF. Your shared experience is just about enough information for me to not ever consider trying them, of course unless the big boys decided to stop selling them to reloader's.
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Old December 11, 2011, 10:07 AM   #8
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The old brass-colored Wolf primers were the best I've ever used. Then Wolf nickel plated them and people started having trouble with misfires because they were too hard (or possibly too tight and they just thought they were too hard) Wolf acknowledged there was a problem with one lot of primers.

Fast-forward a year or two. I bought a bunch of Tula primers; I got Tula instead of Wolf to make sure I didn't get that bad lot. They were nickel (no surprise.) I was having lots of misfires with them, but they would go off with a 2nd strike. Every once in a while it would take 3 strikes. I put them aside; they'll probably be just fine for loading 9mm and 9mm Mak. Well now the gun that was getting misfires with the Tula primers is even misfiring Federals! It wasn't the primers (maybe) it was the gun. I've ordered a new main spring for it, and everything I just said except the very first sentence is inconclusive. Actually that's the point.

Tula primers are great, if your gun will pop them. I also really like Wolf SR primers to use as magnum pistol primers.
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Old December 11, 2011, 10:11 AM   #9
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I've been using Wolf and Tula primers for several years and haven't had any issues with failure to fire. Of course all my firearms have stock firing pins/springs and give the primers a good "smack".

As for difficulty seating, they're no more problem there than CCI's.
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Old December 11, 2011, 10:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eam3clm@att.net
I have read that there was a production run that had issues but I cannot remember the details, but it seems that the color of the primer was the way to tell (brass/nickle color).
Not sure if other lots had similar ignition issues but my Tula SP primer lot number of 20-10 (I am thinking production year 2010 and batch #20) I bought earlier this year is continuing to have ignition issues. Yes, they were properly hand primed and seated to .004" below flush and failed to ignite even after multiple primer strikes (Glock primer cup indentations were deep).

These primers ignited, but show depths of primer indentations.



kingmt, I do agree about your sample size comment and have shot over 20,000 Wolf, Tula, PMC (all Russian) primed cases and Tula SP nickle/chrome colored primers have been the only primers that I have experienced failure to ignite even after multiple primer strikes (Wolf LP, Tula LP and PMC SP are all brass/bronze colored and I have not experienced any failure to ignite with them). Even larger sample size of 300,000+ reloads using Winchester/CCI primers and small sample of 10,000 Magtech primers have not produced any consistent failure to ignite like these Tula SP primers. Maybe the problem has been addressed on newer lot # primers?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Striker.jpg (8.4 KB, 889 views)
File Type: jpg Tula.jpg (44.4 KB, 1047 views)

Last edited by bds; December 11, 2011 at 10:28 AM.
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Old December 11, 2011, 10:43 AM   #11
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I have shot 2000 Tula small pistol primers in 9mm with no problems. Fired in M9 and 1911.
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Old December 11, 2011, 11:36 AM   #12
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3000 here and I did have problems..

they seem larger than some other primers and take a good bit of force to seat. I guess I just didn't have the guts to bang them in there.

My failure rate was about 1 out of 100 and most of the failed primers weren't seated correctly.
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Old December 11, 2011, 12:27 PM   #13
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I recentlybought 5,000 Tula SPP and LPP from Powder Valley Inc. They do take a bit more force to seat but the amount of force will be greatly reduced if you CLEAN the primer pockets prior to seating.

I have only fired a little over a thousand of Tula SPP and LPP combined but I have not had any FTF as of yet (knock on wood).
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Old December 11, 2011, 12:36 PM   #14
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I ram prim & have no problems with them. I had all kinds of problems with CCI & RCBS dies that took me years to find I was had crimped 9mm brass in the mix. I can't say that was the problem all that time but I can say I haven't had the problem since I started looking for crimped primers.
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Old December 11, 2011, 01:02 PM   #15
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MagTechs

Until I bought some MagTech primers during the Great Obamanation Hoarding, I could count the number of FTFs for rifle & pistols over 40 years on one hand & still pick my nose. I have had a half-dozen with the MagTechs & will not buy more.
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Old December 11, 2011, 05:29 PM   #16
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I so far have really liked Tula primer. I have used them in a colt 1911 10mm and my 686 357 mag. They ARE TERRIBLE to seat. So far everyone goes bang if you make sure to do your part on seating. The biggest thing is to inspect them for the anvils missing. I haven't found any yet. But have heard of guys who have.
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Old December 11, 2011, 05:30 PM   #17
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GOOD!!!
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Old December 11, 2011, 05:40 PM   #18
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I've loaded probably more than 50,000 Wolf primers and never had a failure yet. They are a slight bit oversized and may be a bit harder to seat than some other primers but that's not a real problem. Some of the cups are a little harder than US made primers but in an autoloader that's a distinct advantage. I like them.
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Old December 11, 2011, 06:35 PM   #19
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To KingMT, I was being slightly sarcastic in my comment, "Should I expect a 2% failure rate?" In no way should you interpret this as a scientific statement on my part.

I don't keep a 'round count' as to how much i reload or to compare johnsons, but I have been reloading successfully for almost 5 years now and should know how to seat a primer.

I was using one of my dillon presses with 9mm cases, 6.3 grains of BLUEDOT and 124 grain ARMSCOR fmj bullets. The pistol was a Glock 19 that has about 40,000 rounds through it. I was working up a new load with my standard (Remington primers) for someone else when I thought I would try these Tula primers (had them for a few weeks). I feel I cannot load with these primers for someone else's target practice with a failure so soon. Yes, I know it could be a fluke or the only one or maybe I soaked the primers in used motor oil. Maybe my clumbsy hands put the primers in wrong, sideways, not far enough, upside down, or just on the wrong day at the wrong time, but I think they are junk primers. Most things made in Russia are junk and probably contaminated with fallout from Chernobyl. I thank you all for your replies and am glad I am not the only one who has had some problems with Tula components. For cheap $$ I thought I would try them. Guess I will stick with what I know I can trust. Good day to you all.

Last edited by 4895; December 11, 2011 at 06:45 PM.
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Old December 11, 2011, 07:06 PM   #20
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I fell fell very different about Russian engering. Having known & worked with several I have learned they are very good. It was hard for them to get parts that we normaly just change so they built or rebuilt the old parts. One of my buddies told me about rebuilding tie rod ends that only cost about $5 at the time. He was very persise at everything he did.

I don't have much built in Russia but what I have had good.
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Old December 11, 2011, 07:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
I was using one of my dillon presses with 9mm cases, 6.3 grains of BLUEDOT and 124 grain ARMSCOR fmj bullets. The pistol was a Glock 19 that has about 40,000 rounds through it.
I believe these Russian primers are less sensitive than American primers. This is actually good for mechanisms with free floating firing pins as the probablity of a firing pin initated slamfire is less. Less sensitive primers tend to have thick cups, which don't pierce as easily as "more" sensitive primers.

People with worn out mechanisms, old mainsprings, or coil cutters, will have ignition issues with less sensitive primers.

Your pistol has a lot of rounds through it. Have you thought of installing a new mainspring/striker spring? Weak mainsprings will give ignition problems.

I have a M586 revolver that the owner claimed he had fired 40,000 148 LWC, 2.7 grs Bullseye and Federal primers. He was a competitive PPC shooter. I had squibs in cold weather with ball powders. Ignition was so weak, I had to beat the bullet out of the barrel throat with a screwdriver. Primers looked well wacked.

Put in a new mainspring and to date, no ignition problems.



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Old December 11, 2011, 08:33 PM   #22
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No problems here either.


Re: Tight fit....I've only noticed that on the LP Primers on my varied 45 ACP Brass. The 308 and 40 posed no appreciative difference in seating. I hand prime using an RCBS Hand Primer. The 308 Brass was all Lake City and the 40 was varied. I set them aside when issues starting showing up here on this site and others as well

As I recall Wolf initially was exchanging/refunding based on the word of the reloader and ceased doing so when they found people were ripping them off. Anybody else remember that?

I've found reloaders to be among the most honest of people, almost to a fault. So yeah I took the above as being suspect. That said, I have been cheated on online deals on GunBroker and Ebay and Auction Arms as well. Most of my purchases are online, so it works out to about 1 in a thousand which I think is better than the average out there.
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Old December 11, 2011, 11:57 PM   #23
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Tula SPP are slightly longer than Rem/CCI/Win primers. And the end of the cup is more rounded. So if you seat them too hard/deep, you can damage them.
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Old December 12, 2011, 04:13 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOOB
Tula SPP are slightly longer than Rem/CCI/Win primers. And the end of the cup is more rounded. So if you seat them too hard/deep, you can damage them.
I am not seeing the difference in cup lengths or able to measure them using the caliper. I think you might be measuring how far the anvil feet are sticking below the primer cups, but if you look at the comparison picture below, Tula anvil feet are actually deeper in the cup than Winchester. I did however measured the cup diameters and they were all 0.175".

If you look close at the primers, you'll notice that Winchester and Magtech anvil feet stick out more than Tula or PMC primers. If the primers were seated to the same depth of .004" below flush and if the priming compounds were filled to anvil preset depths, this may set the anvil closer/deeper in Winchester/Magtech primers than Tula/PMC primers and perhaps explain why some reloaders are experiencing failure to ignite with Tula SP primers. If the nickel plated Tula SP primer cup is harder, then it will add to the primer ignition issue also. You may ask why I have not experienced primer failures with PMC. Fair question, but that is explained by softer brass cup of PMC SP NT (non-toxic) primers.

I still do not have a definitive "root cause" as to why I am experiencing occasional primer ignition failure with Tula SP primers and not with other SP primers (including Russian PMC SP primers) using the same pistols (G17/G22/G27/M&P40). I have even tried using same head stamp once-fired cases hand primed to the same depth of .004" below flush.

I am thinking about removing the anvil next and checking if there is any difference in anvil shape that contacts the priming compound and measuring the depth of priming compound in the cup.

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File Type: jpg PRIMERS.jpg (171.9 KB, 3373 views)

Last edited by bds; December 12, 2011 at 04:48 AM.
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Old December 12, 2011, 02:18 PM   #25
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Well, I actually measured against a CCI primer. It might even have been a CCI 400 SRP. Maybe that's the difference. It measured a fraction of a thous smaller in diameter than the CCI. (My caliper only measures the nearest half a thou, and it was half a thou smaller on the few I measured.) And the cup, not feet, was longer. I can't recall how much, but it want to say it was by 2 thou. I could actually tell by looking at them side-by-side without the calipers.

However, you CAN see the more rounded cup in your pics. I believe that makes the Tula primer start to flatten/crush easier than the other primers I've used, regardless of relative cup length. So if you have a tight enough primer pocket, you could conceivably start to crush the cup before the primer seats all the way. Or if you seat too deep, you could also crush a primer.

After reading over and over how you can seat a primer too shallow but not too deep, I always erred on the deep side. That was until I had 2 failures to ignite with a Glock, using Tulammo primers. When I measuered the depth of the badly flattened primers, I measured 0.015"! Oops! I happened to prime this batch as the first batch after doing several hundred CCI SRP's which are a lot harder to seat; I guess I was a bit heavy handed on the lever.

Aside from paying more attention to the seating feel, I also concaved the priming arm on my press just a hair, to hold the Tula primers with more support.

Now, the only gun that doesn't like 'em is my Ruger GP100 in DA mode. I get maybe 1% failures there. Everything else pops them without fail.

Last edited by GLOOB; December 16, 2011 at 12:09 AM.
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