avoiding ear damage with powerful rifles

mainecoon · April 12, 2012, 08:41 PM

I would love to shoot a .50 cal, a 338 or similar muzzle-braked rifle. But I don't know if my ears could take it. Obviously I would use ear protection. But is that enough for these guns? Is there a limit to how many times you can fire a .50 or similar really loud rifle before it's time to call it quits for the day?

**taliv** · April 12, 2012, 08:50 PM

i always double up with plugs and muffs when i shoot 50s.

the noise doesn't bother me that way, but the concussion still gives me a headache after more than 20 rounds or so

SilentStalker · April 12, 2012, 08:57 PM

Yep, I double up as well. In all honesty, my ears are shot after the second round of 5.56 with regular ear plugs as I cannot ever get them to seat in my ear correctly. So, I definitely double up for the larger stuff.

jnoble87 · April 12, 2012, 08:59 PM

Yep. I double up my ears with plugs and noise canceling muffs. It doesn't really hurt me, but my .30-06 is LOUD! It's enough to wake the neighbors.....

CnRnut · April 12, 2012, 08:59 PM

Yup, double up.

jem375 · April 12, 2012, 09:24 PM

Too late for me...

TITAN308 · April 12, 2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Yep, I double up as well. In all honesty, my ears are shot after the second round of 5.56 with regular ear plugs as I cannot ever get them to seat in my ear correctly. So, I definitely double up for the larger stuff.

This is because half the people I see them with fail to use them properly. People seem to think you just push them in halfway and thats that.

You are suppose to twist them up, then reach your opposite arm over your head and lift your ear (grab the top of it) while inserting the squished up ear plug. Once all the way in you give it a few seconds and it will unsquish and create a proper barrier with no gaps.

Hold on Ill get you some pictures to illustrate.

TITAN308 · April 12, 2012, 09:43 PM

Here you go...

What I see commonly... (wrong wrong wrong)

The proper way (thumbs up)

How to insert properly... (twist it up)

And yes, I just took the time to do all that... laugh it up lol

praharin · April 12, 2012, 09:45 PM

If you have to quit shooting anything because your ears hurt, you're doing it wrong. Hearing damage is permanent and cumulative. Shoot 5 rounds of unprotected .50BMG today and you'll do a certain amount of damage. That doesn't mean the next 5 rounds won't do damage, but a 6th would.

Every round, every time the damage is done, and once it's been done it doesn't repair.

If you're going to be shooting anything big with a muzzle break, get GOOD plugs and GOOD muffs and wear them with every shot.

Float Pilot · April 12, 2012, 10:06 PM

WHAT? Type louder !

Buckyt · April 12, 2012, 10:09 PM

I was weapons qualification Officer for our unit 1964-66 and was not given earplugs by the Army. I was told to use cotton. I can attest to how it feels to have a noise induced hearing loss (60+ decibel loss in the 4000-6000 frequencies.) I also have tinnitus that rings so loud that sometimes I can't sleep. or hear my grandkids.
Do yourself a favor and wear your earplugs. If you are shooting the big stuff, it is wise to double up. Titan has given a good example of how to properly insert the earplugs.
Do it!

Sheepdog1968 · April 12, 2012, 10:34 PM

I got lucky in my teens. I went to the Springstein Born in the USA tour. It was loud. My ears were ringing the next day. I thought that can't be good so ever since I've worn ear plugs for loud events including vacuuming, lawn mowers, and shooting.

beefyz · April 14, 2012, 05:02 PM

I wonder how our GIs had to feel who had to shoot one of those Garands all day ????? Never saw one of them with a plug or muffs on the ears. Wonder how they felt about that ?

Z-Michigan · April 14, 2012, 06:25 PM

Kudos to Titan for the demonstration.

Double up. And foam earplugs have a much higher NRR than most other styles (rubber in particular). You can get NRR33 earplugs, which are exactly twice as effective as NRR30, four times better than NRR27, and 10 times better than NRR23... you can see the benefit. But only if you insert them properly, as Titan showed.

With a little shopping you can also get muffs that are over 30db. I use Howard Leights and they only cost me $20 or so, but you have to look around for them.

Doubling up only gets you so far - NRR33 plugs and NRR30 muffs might get you somewhere in the range of NRR36-38 maybe - but that's as good as you can do. There's an absolute limit because all of your skull can conduct sound, so some hypothetical NRR100 plugs would not protect your ears much better. But doubling up you should be fine even around a braked .50.

redneck2 · April 14, 2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

NRR33 plugs and NRR30 muffs might get you somewhere in the range of NRR36-38 maybe - but that's as good as you can do

This is coming from a guy that didn't use hearing protection for years. My ears ring all the time....so

Do you have any pix or examples? How do I check the rating?? I'm around industrial machines every day, so this hits home.

TIA

B!ngo · April 14, 2012, 07:18 PM

I'll add to Titan's demo.
I let the plugs stay cool before inserting. If they are warm, you cannot use the procedure (below) effectively (they will expand too quickly). So try not to carry them in your pants pocket where they will stay warm.
Roll them in your fingers as quickly as you can so as not to warm them but to compress them in to thin plugs (about 2MM in diam) about the width of a pipe cleaner.
In one deft move, holding the plug near the leading end (the end going in to the ear first) so as not to let it decompress, insert it in and up the ear canal. Yes, I was surprised at how relatively vertical my ear canals are, as are most people's. This directional requirement often prevents people from inserting them correctly.
Here's the extra secret which will sounds a bit gross but is just fine. Insert them quickly, while twisting slightly until they just touch your eardrum. Yep, that deep. Then back them out however little to remove that pressure.
'Repeat on the other side; wait for them to expand properly. If the world doesn't disappear evenly, re-do the leaky one. Then put on a pair of muffs.
I've used this technique flying aero and long-distance, long-distance motorcycle runs, karts and race cars, and shooting. It works and is the only technique I trust.

peterotte · April 14, 2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

This is because half the people I see them with fail to use them properly. People seem to think you just push them in halfway and thats that.

There's a good reason for that. Not all ears are equal. It's simply not possible for some folks to wear ear plugs 'correctly'. I know this! There are designs that can be worn by most but those are hard to find and are expensive.

The solution for loud boomer's is a mini-suppressor, shrouded muzzle brake or full suppressor. Shrouded muzzle brakes might be legal in your country, depending on the wording of suppressor control laws.

SlamFire1 · April 14, 2012, 08:42 PM

Plugs and muffs are the best we have, but at some noise levels, and I don't know off the top of my head, sound transmission through your jaw bone is enough to damage your hearing.

MachIVshooter · April 14, 2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

i always double up with plugs and muffs when i shoot 50s.

the noise doesn't bother me that way, but the concussion still gives me a headache after more than 20 rounds or so

+1

I use plugs and muffs when shooting my AR-50, but like Taliv, my head starts to throb from the concussion after 20 or 30 rounds. It's amazing how much there is when shooting a braked .50 cal., and the muzzle blast will blow things off the bench.

CharlieDeltaJuliet · April 14, 2012, 09:07 PM

I shoot my BA50 with plugs and electronic earmuffs, without either is mildly painful. It rings my ears without either.

sixgunner455 · April 14, 2012, 09:37 PM

I have tinnitus. I plug and muff, every shot, except when hunting, when I use electronic plugs or muffs.

I think I'm gonna invest in some suppressors.

Z-Michigan · April 14, 2012, 10:03 PM

@redneck2: the best earmuffs I've found for noise reduction are passive Howard Leights. Looks like the LR3 is currently a highly rated muff:

http://www.howardleight.com/shooting...ction/earmuffs

and they start at $11:
http://www.google.com/search?q=howar...ient=firefox-a

Not sure what you want a photo of. Just wear earplugs in your ears and muffs over top. As for the maximum total noise reduction possible, I don't know my original source, but here's one article I found in a quick search:

http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got_...t-for-you.html

here's a search if you want to read more:

http://www.google.com/search?q=maxim...ient=firefox-a

Buckyt · April 15, 2012, 05:37 PM

I qualified with M1 in training, and then with M14 when I was on active duty. I wish I knew how many rounds I fired with those rifles. I then was weapons qualification officer and No earplugs from the Army. No real hearing test ( whisper test) when I was discharged. They said my hearing was "normal". Now that I have tinnitus, and severe hearing loss, the VA has approved the tinnitus, but says my hearing loss was not caused by the military noise.
Please wear your hearing protection!

TITAN308 · April 15, 2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

There's a good reason for that. Not all ears are equal. It's simply not possible for some folks to wear ear plugs 'correctly'. I know this! There are designs that can be worn by most but those are hard to find and are expensive.

I fail to see how a piece of foam is not completely and utterly universal.

I mean, perhaps trimming the ol' ear hairs might make the room that is needed... lol

tundraotto · April 16, 2012, 10:48 PM

just reading through this and thought of something....Does anyone else use the electronic muffs for hunting? I have used the Howard Leight amplified muffs for shooting for a couple of years and like them a lot. I want to hold on to all the hearing I have so for the last couple of hunts I have used them. I can turn them up to hear more than I would otherwise! Its been a win-win for me and was just wondering why more people didnt do it...I dont double up for the braked and Mag rifles like I should.

April 12, 2012, 08:41 PM	#1
mainecoon Member Join Date: February 25, 2012 Posts: 78	avoiding ear damage with powerful rifles I would love to shoot a .50 cal, a 338 or similar muzzle-braked rifle. But I don't know if my ears could take it. Obviously I would use ear protection. But is that enough for these guns? Is there a limit to how many times you can fire a .50 or similar really loud rifle before it's time to call it quits for the day?

April 12, 2012, 08:50 PM	#2
taliv Moderator Join Date: October 23, 2004 Posts: 15,421	i always double up with plugs and muffs when i shoot 50s. the noise doesn't bother me that way, but the concussion still gives me a headache after more than 20 rounds or so __________________ Precision Multigun, LLC Distinguished Rifleman Badge #1971 Precision Rifle Series

April 12, 2012, 09:24 PM	#6
jem375 Member Join Date: January 4, 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,508	Too late for me... __________________ NRA Life Member

April 12, 2012, 09:43 PM	#8
TITAN308 Member Join Date: December 27, 2011 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 439	Here you go... What I see commonly... (wrong wrong wrong) The proper way (thumbs up) How to insert properly... (twist it up) And yes, I just took the time to do all that... laugh it up lol __________________ No good deed goes unpunished. Remember that next time you intend to do anything nice.

April 12, 2012, 10:06 PM	#10
Float Pilot Member Join Date: July 27, 2007 Location: Kachemak Bay Alaska Posts: 2,300	WHAT? Type louder ! __________________ Experimental Hand-Loader, Wilderness photo guide, Float Plane,Tail Wheel and Firearms Instructor https://www.facebook.com/pages/Drago...ref=ts&fref=ts

April 12, 2012, 08:57 PM	#3
SilentStalker Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Somewhere in the U.S., London, or Australia Posts: 852	Yep, I double up as well. In all honesty, my ears are shot after the second round of 5.56 with regular ear plugs as I cannot ever get them to seat in my ear correctly. So, I definitely double up for the larger stuff.

April 12, 2012, 08:59 PM	#4
jnoble87 Member Join Date: August 4, 2011 Location: Missouri Posts: 96	Yep. I double up my ears with plugs and noise canceling muffs. It doesn't really hurt me, but my .30-06 is LOUD! It's enough to wake the neighbors.....

April 12, 2012, 08:59 PM	#5
CnRnut Member Join Date: October 24, 2003 Location: New York Posts: 277	Yup, double up.

April 12, 2012, 09:45 PM	#9
praharin Member Join Date: February 10, 2006 Location: Pennsyltucky Posts: 412	If you have to quit shooting anything because your ears hurt, you're doing it wrong. Hearing damage is permanent and cumulative. Shoot 5 rounds of unprotected .50BMG today and you'll do a certain amount of damage. That doesn't mean the next 5 rounds won't do damage, but a 6th would. Every round, every time the damage is done, and once it's been done it doesn't repair. If you're going to be shooting anything big with a muzzle break, get GOOD plugs and GOOD muffs and wear them with every shot.

April 12, 2012, 10:09 PM	#11
Buckyt Member Join Date: December 22, 2011 Posts: 36	I was weapons qualification Officer for our unit 1964-66 and was not given earplugs by the Army. I was told to use cotton. I can attest to how it feels to have a noise induced hearing loss (60+ decibel loss in the 4000-6000 frequencies.) I also have tinnitus that rings so loud that sometimes I can't sleep. or hear my grandkids. Do yourself a favor and wear your earplugs. If you are shooting the big stuff, it is wise to double up. Titan has given a good example of how to properly insert the earplugs. Do it!

April 12, 2012, 10:34 PM	#12
Sheepdog1968 Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: CA Posts: 1,996	I got lucky in my teens. I went to the Springstein Born in the USA tour. It was loud. My ears were ringing the next day. I thought that can't be good so ever since I've worn ear plugs for loud events including vacuuming, lawn mowers, and shooting. __________________ I think Thor's hammer was an 45-70 lever action loaded with Garrett cartridges. I find that 90% of the questions asked here have been answered 20 or more years ago by Jeff Cooper in his Gargantuan Gunsite Gossip books.

April 14, 2012, 05:02 PM	#13
beefyz Member Join Date: November 12, 2009 Posts: 117	I wonder how our GIs had to feel who had to shoot one of those Garands all day ????? Never saw one of them with a plug or muffs on the ears. Wonder how they felt about that ?

April 14, 2012, 06:25 PM	#14
Z-Michigan Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,944	Kudos to Titan for the demonstration. Double up. And foam earplugs have a much higher NRR than most other styles (rubber in particular). You can get NRR33 earplugs, which are exactly twice as effective as NRR30, four times better than NRR27, and 10 times better than NRR23... you can see the benefit. But only if you insert them properly, as Titan showed. With a little shopping you can also get muffs that are over 30db. I use Howard Leights and they only cost me $20 or so, but you have to look around for them. Doubling up only gets you so far - NRR33 plugs and NRR30 muffs might get you somewhere in the range of NRR36-38 maybe - but that's as good as you can do. There's an absolute limit because all of your skull can conduct sound, so some hypothetical NRR100 plugs would not protect your ears much better. But doubling up you should be fine even around a braked .50.

April 14, 2012, 07:18 PM	#16
B!ngo Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Posts: 454	I'll add to Titan's demo. I let the plugs stay cool before inserting. If they are warm, you cannot use the procedure (below) effectively (they will expand too quickly). So try not to carry them in your pants pocket where they will stay warm. Roll them in your fingers as quickly as you can so as not to warm them but to compress them in to thin plugs (about 2MM in diam) about the width of a pipe cleaner. In one deft move, holding the plug near the leading end (the end going in to the ear first) so as not to let it decompress, insert it in and up the ear canal. Yes, I was surprised at how relatively vertical my ear canals are, as are most people's. This directional requirement often prevents people from inserting them correctly. Here's the extra secret which will sounds a bit gross but is just fine. Insert them quickly, while twisting slightly until they just touch your eardrum. Yep, that deep. Then back them out however little to remove that pressure. 'Repeat on the other side; wait for them to expand properly. If the world doesn't disappear evenly, re-do the leaky one. Then put on a pair of muffs. I've used this technique flying aero and long-distance, long-distance motorcycle runs, karts and race cars, and shooting. It works and is the only technique I trust.

April 14, 2012, 08:42 PM	#18
SlamFire1 Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 5,866	Plugs and muffs are the best we have, but at some noise levels, and I don't know off the top of my head, sound transmission through your jaw bone is enough to damage your hearing. __________________ Accuracy is a skill acquired through constant practice.

April 14, 2012, 09:07 PM	#20
CharlieDeltaJuliet Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: North Carolinian Posts: 984	I shoot my BA50 with plugs and electronic earmuffs, without either is mildly painful. It rings my ears without either.

April 14, 2012, 09:37 PM	#21
sixgunner455 Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 2,551	I have tinnitus. I plug and muff, every shot, except when hunting, when I use electronic plugs or muffs. I think I'm gonna invest in some suppressors. __________________ Life is too short to hunt with an ugly dog. - me If you can't hit a snake at 20 feet with a 12 gauge, you ain't gonna hit a dove, either. -McGunner

April 14, 2012, 10:03 PM	#22
Z-Michigan Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,944	@redneck2: the best earmuffs I've found for noise reduction are passive Howard Leights. Looks like the LR3 is currently a highly rated muff: http://www.howardleight.com/shooting...ction/earmuffs and they start at $11: http://www.google.com/search?q=howar...ient=firefox-a Not sure what you want a photo of. Just wear earplugs in your ears and muffs over top. As for the maximum total noise reduction possible, I don't know my original source, but here's one article I found in a quick search: http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got_...t-for-you.html here's a search if you want to read more: http://www.google.com/search?q=maxim...ient=firefox-a

April 15, 2012, 05:37 PM	#23
Buckyt Member Join Date: December 22, 2011 Posts: 36	I qualified with M1 in training, and then with M14 when I was on active duty. I wish I knew how many rounds I fired with those rifles. I then was weapons qualification officer and No earplugs from the Army. No real hearing test ( whisper test) when I was discharged. They said my hearing was "normal". Now that I have tinnitus, and severe hearing loss, the VA has approved the tinnitus, but says my hearing loss was not caused by the military noise. Please wear your hearing protection!

April 16, 2012, 10:48 PM	#25
tundraotto Member Join Date: November 21, 2010 Location: Greenwood, AR Posts: 211	just reading through this and thought of something....Does anyone else use the electronic muffs for hunting? I have used the Howard Leight amplified muffs for shooting for a couple of years and like them a lot. I want to hold on to all the hearing I have so for the last couple of hunts I have used them. I can turn them up to hear more than I would otherwise! Its been a win-win for me and was just wondering why more people didnt do it...I dont double up for the braked and Mag rifles like I should.