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Old June 9, 2015, 09:40 AM   #1
GAMEOVER44
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Is this AR worth it? Daniel Defense

I went to Daniel Defense and built an AR and the total came to just a little over 2 grand shipped to my door step.

Would you pay 2 grand for a custom DD rifle? Too much, could I do better for cheaper?? I cant build an AR I dont have the knowledge or tools so please dont tell me to build my own. Even though thats kinda what I did at DDs website.

How can they deliver to your door? Isnt there a background check process???


Also anyone familiar with the 300 BLK round? I chose 5.56 but never seen a 300 BLK or hear of it much.
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Old June 9, 2015, 09:58 AM   #2
Robert
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I'd build my own AR with optics for less and be just as happy.

As far as knowledge and tools, anyone can put together a lower in less that an hour on their first try with simple hand tools. There are tons of how to videos out there. Then just buy a complete upper you like and done.

We have done hundreds of threads on 300BO. It was an off shoot of 300 Whisper, designed to be a short range, harder hitting round that worked well suppressed and sub sonic. It gives 7.62x39 ish ballistics out of an AR15 platform without the feeding issues that come with 7.62x39 ARs.
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Old June 9, 2015, 10:20 AM   #3
GAMEOVER44
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I really wish I could build my own AR but I only have limited, very limited tools. 2 large seems pretty darn up there for an AR. That's as much as some very nice rifles. Then again DD IS suppose to be the cream of the crop as far as manufacturers go from what I heard. Thats just a lot of cash.

This is going to be a hard choice for me. I may just end up with a Colt but dont want to kick myself in the butt later.
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Old June 9, 2015, 10:31 AM   #4
Fishbed77
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FYI - it sounds like you need to do a good bit more research before you purchase an AR. That said - you are posting here, so that's a good start on your part.

You've posted a good many separate questions, so let's break them down:

Quote:
Would you pay 2 grand for a custom DD rifle? Too much, could I do better for cheaper??
DD makes top-notch rifles. If that rifle with those specific features are what you want and need, only you can determine the value. I will also say that BCM makes rifles of equal quality, and they typically run a few bucks less. I suggest you check them out as well.

Quote:
I cant build an AR I dont have the knowledge or tools so please dont tell me to build my own. Even though thats kinda what I did at DDs website.
You can build an AR. There is plenty of guidance available, including many Youtube videos showing you exactly what to do. As Robert said, only basic hand tools are needed to build a lower (punches, hammer, needlenose pliers, and a vice would be healpful). Alternatively, you can buy a lower already built.

One you have a lower, you can buy an upper online and have it shipped to your door. Again I recommend BCM. Installing an upper to a lower requires no tools and requires about 15 seconds of your time.

At DD's website, you did not build an AR. You just picked out features.

Quote:
How can they deliver to your door? Isnt there a background check process???
They can deliver a complete firearm or lower (either stripped or complete) to an FFL. You will have to go to the FFL to fill out the paperwork and pick it up. They can not ship a firearm straight to your doorstep unless you are an FFL.

Uppers are not firearms (they have no serial number), and can be shipped right to you door.

Quote:
Also anyone familiar with the 300 BLK round? I chose 5.56 but never seen a 300 BLK or hear of it much.
You need to give us more information about what you will be doing with the rifle. I also recommend you do a bit more research on this subject.

5.56x45mm is the traditional AR-15 round, and is suitable for defensive use, target shooting, plinking, competition, hunting (up to whitetail in some area), and general fun. .300 Blackout is a .30 caliber round that really shines in suppressed use. It's also an option for hunting deer-size prey at shorter (<300 yard) ranges. .300 Blackout ammo also costs MUCH more than 5.56x45mm ammo typically, so take that into account.
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Old June 9, 2015, 10:41 AM   #5
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GAMEOVER44....

Don't spend $2k on your first AR. You will be happy with a $550 AR15; http://www.impactguns.com/smith-wess...188145663.aspx
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Old June 9, 2015, 10:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
This is going to be a hard choice for me. I may just end up with a Colt but dont want to kick myself in the butt later.

Why? you can add the very stuff you picked out as time resources and $$ allow.
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Old June 9, 2015, 10:51 AM   #7
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Not knowing exactly how you configured it makes it hard to tell if it is worth it.

I built a rifle with mostly Daniel Defense parts and it only cost me about $1500 including shipping and tools to build it.

You've already stated your reluctance to reload...if you are intimidated by the cost of the rifle, then you shouldn't even consider .300 Blackout, because that will be an expensive round for a person who does not reload.

I know Daniel Defense only sells guns with their free float rails...do you need an expensive free float rail?
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Old June 9, 2015, 10:58 AM   #8
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Gameover, if it's what you wanted and you have the money, go for it. DD from what I understand is top notch. You have kept some talented guys in business for another day. They can pay their bills and come back to work tomorrow. If you want quality, you have to pay for it.
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Old June 9, 2015, 11:07 AM   #9
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For 95% of the folks that buy an AR, an $800 one will fill their needs just as well as a $2k+ one. I learned that the hard (i.e. expensive) way. Match-grade barrels, high end triggers, "designer" upper and lowers, etc. are all fine and dandy but most people not only don't need them, they could never use them properly - in other words, at a level of precision that such parts afford. (You golfers out there know what I'm talking about ;-) )

It really boils down to what you want and your skill level with the rifle. Having an expensive, bad-arse AR-15 doesn't make you a Navy SEAL or a Delta Force operator.
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Old June 9, 2015, 11:31 AM   #10
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For most people, there is nothing that a DD or Noveske or other top-tier AR will do for them that an S&W M&P15 or Colt or various other makes wouldn't do, except give them the un-earned bragging rights of owning an expensive piece of gear.

There are folks who push themselves and their rifles so hard that they can make a cogent argument that a super-highest name brand rifle gives them some 0.01% benefit that they need to keep operating at that level, but most folks would be fooling themselves to say so. (And many people pushing just as hard DON'T use that gear, so...) Remember, the guys "over there" who rely on their M-4s and M16s to keep themselves and their buddies alive every single day, aren't requiring anything fancier than government contract rifles to do so. So what makes you more special than them?

Basically you need to look for a known quantity -- Colt is just fine -- and then wring it out on the range. If it runs well for you, then that's all you really need to know.
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Old June 9, 2015, 11:55 AM   #11
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You can currently get a Colt for under a grand OTD.

I suspect that since this is your first AR you have been reading all the (mis)information that is out there on the interwebs. I have been shooting AR rifles for over 25 years and the large majority of the stuff you read is no more than some armchair commando regurgitating what they have read.

For those that sit on their couch and dream of being a operator, having a rifle with all the useless nonsense that expensive rifle manufacturers try to convince you that need is important. Then they go to the range and sit on their butt and shoot paper targets at 100 yards and think that they are badass.

Much like the Arsenal AK vs WASR threads that abound out there, there is a lively debate about just what a serviceable AR should cost.

Two grand for an AR is just flat out ludicrous. For 99.9% of shooters, a medium budget rifle will work fine for for years and years. I have a $500ish PSA Mforgery that I built several years ago and it has never missed a lick.

I would advise you to take a step back and really examine just what you want a AR for. If all are going to do is shoot it once or twice a month, then you truly don't a multi thousand dollar rifle. An expensive rifle won't make you a better shot. Only practice will do that.

You can order assembled lowers from PSA and assembled uppers at the same time. The lower receiver has to go to a FFL, but the upper ships to your door. Put the upper on the lower and push in two pins, I would think that even if you are extremely mechanically challenged you should be able to do that.
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Old June 9, 2015, 12:42 PM   #12
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I paid right at $500 for my AR from PSA. I ordered the upper and lower separate and snapped them together with no tools as stated.

It hasn't missed a lick yet. Take the money you save over the DD and buy a few thousand rounds, an optic if you so choose, and blast away.

$2k for a first AR is crazy IMO.
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Old June 9, 2015, 01:18 PM   #13
GAMEOVER44
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Thanks for all the information guys much thanks.

At what point during building your own AR do you go through the mandatory background check to own a firearm? That part has me curious.
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Old June 9, 2015, 01:31 PM   #14
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In some ways, paying $2200 for a AR right now is like paying full MSRP for a Hummer back in 2010. I mean, if you have to have it, then you have to have it, but it isn't exactly a great value. The #1 thing you need to understand is that a general purpose AR, which is based around being reliable, durable, 1-2moa accurate, and easily modified, is that they aren't all that hard to make. Given the current materials, the concept is essentially maxed out.

Now for $2200 you can get a rifle that is unique, pleasing to the eye, etc. But it isn't going to shoot a bullet any better than a rifle that's 1/3rd its price. The heart and soul of an AR is the barrel and BCG, and as others have pointed out, a PSA is the equal of the DD at a much lower price. Top end companies do make nice rifles, but they equally specialize in effective marketing, portraying buying their rifle as going some kind of special community.

Colts are another option, and while they are not my personal favorite, they do shoot well and last a long time. To put it simply, Colts are good if it's what you want. That is, 16" barrel, carbine gas, FSB, not free floated, limited factory options. But the rifle itself really isn't unique or better than other options. If you're already planning on modifying it, you might as well save the money and buy what you want up front.

As for the question of 5.56 vs 300 Blackout, how much do you plan on training with this rifle? The more you shoot it, the more you'll appreciate cost effective ammo. 223/5.56 does a number on humans too, once you move past the ammunition that has been forced on the military. It won't let you down in a self-defense role.

If you're looking to buy, I recommend buying an upper and lower separately. There isn't much magic in assembling a lower, so money can be saved there. All the durability benefits of mil-spec can be had for $250, or $100 less if you are willing to replace a buffer tube. For the upper, decide if you want to shoot iron sights or not. If you do plan on spending a significant amount of time with irons, get an upper with a FSB. They are cheap and very durable compared to a flip-up. If you plan on running an optic, with no irons or them only as a back-up, look at a free float.
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Old June 9, 2015, 01:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
At what point during building your own AR do you go through the mandatory background check to own a firearm? That part has me curious.
When you buy the lower. It doesn't matter if the lower is striped, assembled or part of a complete rifle, it's the only part of the gun that is a firearm.
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Old June 9, 2015, 01:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by GAMEOVER44 View Post
Thanks for all the information guys much thanks.

At what point during building your own AR do you go through the mandatory background check to own a firearm? That part has me curious.
The only part of an AR that requires filling out a 4073 and getting the background check is the lower receiver.

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Old June 9, 2015, 04:42 PM   #17
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Daniel Defense makes a very good rifle. The most expensive one Ive seen was right about 1800 bucks though. They are great rifles but for my money Id buy a 1300 dollar BCM KMR with the ELW barrel over just about any Daniel Defense.

If I was spending 2 grand on an AR Id be looking at the KAC SR-15.
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Old June 9, 2015, 07:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GAMEOVER44 View Post
Would you pay 2 grand for a custom DD rifle? Too much, could I do better for cheaper?? I cant build an AR I dont have the knowledge or tools so please dont tell me to build my own. Even though thats kinda what I did at DDs website.
.
Taken one at a time:
1. No. I wouldn't spend 2k on a DD. (I have one. It's nice but I'll never use all of its supposed potential). Have cheaper ARs and they can stand toe to toe with the DD IMO.
2. The last 3 receivers I assembled were done with a set of channel locks, blue painters tape and a razor blade. Pretty simple really. YouTube is your friend.

Currently working on another AR. Looking to be in it for about 5 bills with no frills. Keep an eye on sales @ PSA. Picked up a Ptac upper over the winter for $180. They had Ptac stripped lowers for 40 small ones last week. They may have more.
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Old June 9, 2015, 07:48 PM   #19
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Save the big coin for your second AR.

For a first AR, start with a cheaper one, that way if you muck it up, its no huge loss.
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Old June 9, 2015, 07:50 PM   #20
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I went with the PSA option. I too have nightmares about tiny springs flying across the room or me ending up with extra mystery parts. So I bought a complete lower, upper and BCG and charging handle for about $500.

The gun is so much fun to shoot. Just give her a drink of Mobil 1 and it runs flawlessly. The accuracy is also quite impressive for a cheap carbine. I haven't measured my groups center to center, but they look around 1.5" with my blaster reloads. It is a FN barrel so maybe my experience is not uncommon.

I don't think there is anyting wrong with DD. I personally admire what little I've seen and sometimes peace of mind is worth the extra cost. I just don't have the money for such a nice gun.
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Old June 9, 2015, 07:52 PM   #21
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"There are folks who push themselves and their rifles so hard that they can make a cogent argument that a super-highest name brand rifle gives them some 0.01% benefit that they need to keep operating at that level, but most folks would be fooling themselves to say so. (And many people pushing just as hard DON'T use that gear, so...) Remember, the guys "over there" who rely on their M-4s and M16s to keep themselves and their buddies alive every single day, aren't requiring anything fancier than government contract rifles to do so. So what makes you more special than them? "


NO no no you get what you pay for and government contract rifles are generally much (did I say much) much more better built than your average civilian versions (and you get the often over over rated rock and roll switch too [full auto] but it's a nice perc.)

It is important that you know what you intend to use it for and plan ahead if you even have a slight thought that you will be moving up because upgrades or entirely new gear are more expensive in the long run than getting right the first time.

I do not like 16 inch barrel ARs because the round is optimized for barrels 20 + inches and the 16 inch compromise is in my opinion a lot of loss for the rounds potential.

I would recommend a Colt with a 20 inch barrel. I personally prefere the old M16A1 pencil barrel configuration since it's the most light weight and ergonomic but that is personal preference. I would not quickly overlook the 20 inch barrel though unless looking desert storm cool is high on your list because the longer barrel will make those rounds scream down range with a flat (straight) trajectory.

I entertain no fantasies of manuevering inside a cramped ATV or tank with a 13 barrel inch M4 decked out with Tac equipment mounted on it's rails.

It's hard for me to say what type of quality (quality = more money) will suite you so I will not spit out generalizations about the "average guy's needs" but I will tell you that all ARs are not the same or even close and "0.01 % advantage" is a really bad explanation since some ARs that people claim to be good are total crap. You do not want to get something devoid of the quality you may find out you need somewhere down the road.



Last edited by grter; June 9, 2015 at 08:07 PM.
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Old June 9, 2015, 08:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
NO no no you get what you pay for and government contract rifles are generally much (did I say much) much more better built than your average civilian versions (and you get the often over over rated rock and roll switch too [full auto] but it's a nice perc.)
Yes, yes, of course! (Dude, you totally forgot the smilies and eyeroll emoji. It's hard to pick up on your sarcasm without them!)
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Old June 9, 2015, 08:08 PM   #23
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Save the big coin for your second AR.

For a first AR, start with a cheaper one, that way if you muck it up, its no huge loss.
Good advise. Many people don't need a top tier AR anyway. Start cheap and see if you like the AR. Then after shooting one for awhile you will have a better idea of what you want in an AR. There are a million options.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...category/4459/ - $160

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...cg-and-ch.html - $290

And go shoot.
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Old June 9, 2015, 08:11 PM   #24
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$2000 is ridiculous for an ar15. you can almost buy the civvy version of the hk416 for that.
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Old June 9, 2015, 08:17 PM   #25
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Don't start with a cheap one see if you can rent one or preferably different configurations and brand names at a shooting range/ranges handle them shoot them a lot and keep reading up on them. If you know any friends that have ARs try them.

This will decrease your chances of getting stuck with an unsupported jamomatic or something that is going to tie you down to it's lack of quality and shortcommings.
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