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Old August 7, 2015, 01:04 PM   #1
CraigC
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Ivan Carter's offer to those opposed to trophy hunting

http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/iss...-awesome-offer
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Old August 7, 2015, 01:24 PM   #2
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Good post.

Wonder when Jimmy Kimmel is heading over?
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Old August 7, 2015, 01:31 PM   #3
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That is a great opportunity! I would do it if other obligations did not prohibit my doing so.
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Old August 7, 2015, 03:44 PM   #4
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Have to admit that if hunting them gives you a rush, imagine stalking them unarmed.
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Old August 7, 2015, 04:35 PM   #5
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i don,t think i would like to be walking with just only a camara here. eastbank.
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Old August 7, 2015, 05:11 PM   #6
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Almost all of the national parks in Africa prohibit leaving a vehicle when viewing the animals. Some have walking "safaris" (tours) where an armed ranger takes a small group on foot.
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Old August 7, 2015, 05:31 PM   #7
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This is a good article. The offer makes complete sense, in that, all these whiners should put their money and their life on the table and ante up.
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Old August 7, 2015, 06:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
TimSr - Have to admit that if hunting them gives you a rush, imagine stalking them unarmed.
Quote:
eastbank - i don,t think i would like to be walking with just only a camara here. eastbank.
Quote:
Patocazador - Almost all of the national parks in Africa prohibit leaving a vehicle when viewing the animals. Some have walking "safaris" (tours) where an armed ranger takes a small group on foot.

You would not have to be unarmed since the offer is to take you on a licensed trophy hunt where you do everything except kill the animal; it is not a photo/walking safari. You would have an armed professional guide backing you up the same as with any trophy hunting client.

Quote:
frgood - This is a good article. The offer makes complete sense, in that, all these whiners should put their money and their life on the table and ante up.
Let me guess; anyone who disagrees with you is a whiner. In 2015 the whole putting “life on the table” thing is far more exaggeration than reality. Very few trophy hunters are ever close to losing their lives.
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Old August 7, 2015, 07:12 PM   #9
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CraigC Excellent post thanks for sharing.
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Old August 7, 2015, 07:18 PM   #10
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No. anyone who complains in a feeble or petulant way is a whiner.
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Old August 7, 2015, 08:37 PM   #11
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No, anyone who never gave a second thought to this subject before Cecil was shot is a whiner. And typically an ignorant one at that.


Quote:
Very few trophy hunters are ever close to losing their lives.
And how did you get to be such an expert on trophy hunting?
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Old August 7, 2015, 11:24 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CraigC View Post
......And how did you get to be such an expert on trophy hunting?
I never claimed to be an expert on trophy hunting, but I am flattered that the knowledge I have so far displayed on the subject has you assuming I am. Thank you for the undeserved complement.

While not an expert of the subject of trophy hunting, and although I have collected a few trophies in the U. S., my knowledge of African and Indian trophy hunting is derived mostly from decades of reading the published works of and about famous professional hunters and trophy hunting guides of the 19th to mid-20th century. Those men from the golden era of African and Indian hunting faced a multitude of dangers, many potentially deadly, before they ever came near a game animal. Unlike the majority of today's trophy hunters. Much of my knowledge of mid 20th century trophy hunting comes from listening in my youth to the stories of wealthy big game hunters at a once famous in AZ gunshop named Don's Sport Shop. One of my fondest memories is sitting on a stool at Don's listening to Joe Foss talk about hunting.

Thank you again for the undeserved complement and your interest in my experience.
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Old August 8, 2015, 12:57 AM   #13
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How many petards will end up a Tim Treadwell?
Killed in the act, and or by doing a stupid stunt ultimately cause an animal to be shot?

Yeah, Treadwell never saved a grizzly, but his stupid stuff ended up having one killed.

What a friggin' Animal Rights hero.

We need more of them (because critters be hungry).
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Old August 8, 2015, 12:58 AM   #14
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Anybody ever find a link to his camera's last audiotape?
I'd p*ss myself laughing if I heard it.
Total nutcase he was.
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Old August 8, 2015, 01:00 AM   #15
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Nice..............I'd go on camera safari for some big possibly dangerous critters, since I am against trophy hunting and a professional with a rifle is there to protect me ( I won't shoot an animal, as it's wrong, but if my actions force another to shoot it to save me that's fine).

What a load of crap.

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Old August 8, 2015, 07:30 AM   #16
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i think we have been trolled by several different posts by the same poster on the hunting forums. i i,ll say this on my last post about this, go and see for your self whats happening in africa today. it,s not pretty but it is the life the people have to live and hunting eases their burden, maybe not the way some would like. but every little bit helps and that can make the difference in living and dieing. the girl on the right is stripping and cleaning impala intestines to fill with small pieces of meat. eastbank.
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Old August 8, 2015, 10:21 AM   #17
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Nom de Forum said, "Those men from the golden era of African and Indian hunting faced a multitude of dangers, many potentially deadly, before they ever came near a game animal. Unlike the majority of today's trophy hunters."

Implicit in this statement is the idea that there is something wrong with making a dangerous activity safer.

Trouble is, as more knowledge is gained about danger, human nature says to reduce the hazard. Seat belts in cars, for instance, have been followed by air bags.

So, nowadays, Mighty Nimrod has competent backup.

In that golden era, many of those hunters were experienced in outdoor necessities. In today's world, that competent backup allows the less-experienced to survive. Survival seems more desirable than injury or death.
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Old August 8, 2015, 10:39 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by eastbank View Post
i think we have been trolled by several different posts by the same poster on the hunting forums. i i,ll say this on my last post about this, go and see for your self whats happening in africa today. it,s not pretty but it is the life the people have to live and hunting eases their burden, maybe not the way some would like. but every little bit helps and that can make the difference in living and dieing. the girl on the right is stripping and cleaning impala intestines to fill with small pieces of meat. eastbank.


eastbank,

Decades ago I was a enthralled with the idea of one day traveling to Africa and following in the footsteps of Selous, Bell, Patterson, Blixen, Hemmingway, Capstick, etc. My opinion of trophy hunting evolved and I have been giving it to you. Trolling is a hostile act. Accusing someone of being a troll because you don’t like their opinion is a hostile act. The tone of my posts is mild compared to some of the hostile posts directed at me by some of your fellow trophy hunting enthusiasts in this thread and others. Never have I posted anywhere that I want an end to all types of hunting of the common trophy species. You sir are obviously the real deal when it comes to trophy hunting in Africa and elsewhere possibly. I would never claim to be your equal in knowledge of Africa. I am not, using some of the language recently posted elsewhere, a “ignorant”, “whining”, “liberal”, “nutcase”, "troll" who knows nothing about the subject and is giving an uninformed opinion. I have been giving an opinion that is from someone closer to your beliefs about the 2A, armed self-defense, and hunting than distant from it.
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Old August 8, 2015, 02:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Nom de Forum View Post
Very few trophy hunters are ever close to losing their lives.
I see that you are fond of labels. What is your definition of a "trophy" hunter?

Nom,

Please take Ivan up on his offer. This your chance to put your money where your mouth is. Quit bloviating and act. While you degrade the very people who do the heavy lifting for wildlife and wild country, they continue to spend the money that it takes to keep wild Africa wild.

If you'd like I can send your details to Ivan Personally. He is a good friend of mine. That way maybe you two can work out a deal so that your alternate funding scheme can take root. PM me I will set it up for you.

Also after you've spent some time with boots on the ground with Ivan in thick Jesse bush around wild elephant cows you can come back here and explain to us how modern "trophy" hunters are rarely near death. I've spent the better part of an afternoon running for my life from a herd of agitated cow elephant. The whole time we were sprinting from cover to cover and playing hide and seek from that herd of agitated and highly aggressive cows we could have gone to guns at anytime as myself and my PH were both carrying .470NE rifles loaded with 500gr solids. And like all ethical, conservation minded "trophy" hunters the last thing in world any of us would do is shoot an animal that we don't have on quota. Even though that would have been the path of least resistance.

I guarantee you that if you were to take Ivan Carter up on his offer that you will be closer to death than anything you've ever done outside of being in a active live fire zone as a combatant. PH's and their "trophy" hunting clients would rather do just about anything than kill an animal that isn't specifically on license. Because if that animal is on license and is part of a quota it means that it is part of a surplus that is being hunted to scientifically maintain a game balance within that areas holding capacity. If the animal is NOT on quota then killing it does nothing for the health and carefully maintained balance of the area.

Until you've been in close quarters with elephant or buffalo at spitting range your opinion on the subject is meaningless to me. I've been in the long grass with a wounded buffalo bull. I know what the tension of an all day tracking session in thick cover, in high heat, with Mopane flying swarming your head and eyes feels like. The tension induced dry mouth, the need to stay hyper vigilant for hours on end. I've felt the shakes after being rushed at close range by an errant and unseen elephant. I've faced that do or die moment when a buffalo bull zeros in on you and the PH has an empty rifle. I've made eye contact with that bull the moment that he dips his head to toss you. And I've seen the front sight of my double planted on his neck just before I yanked back the trigger on my last bullet on the left barrel on my double and watched him crumple several paces from my feet. I know what it feels like to have the tremors after the event and sit silently with your bull running the event over in your mind as you take in the smell of his tangy hide and listen to the sounds of the African bush come back to life.

So please don't infer that you have any knowledge of the subject from reading books. That would be like me saying I know what it feels like to rush a beach head in actual combat because I watched Saving Private Ryan. Take Ivan up on his offer. You'll see for yourself exactly the insane risks that a PH and his team of clients and trackers go through to avoid having to ever shoot anything they are not specifically out to shoot. You'll also see the risks that they take to get into position to cleanly and ethically take the target animal. This would be a great learning opportunity for you. Talk is cheap this is your opportunity to act.
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Old August 8, 2015, 02:37 PM   #20
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Ok, that gave me goosebumps!!!
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Old August 8, 2015, 02:49 PM   #21
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"I'm only against trophy hunting"....sure sounds like "I only want to ban assault rifles".
Yeah........whatever.
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Old August 8, 2015, 06:14 PM   #22
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well said H&H, and the fact that if a animal is hit and not recovered you pay as if the animal had been taken and counts the same. and i am no expert on africa, but i have been trusted by the same hunter on three trips to hold the line and not run and still shoot straight when needed. and i don,t count myself a trophy hunter as i let others shoot the true trophies as i am happy shooting lesser animals that can be legaly taken. eastbank.
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Old August 8, 2015, 06:49 PM   #23
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If you really want to exponentially increase your chance of death during an African safari, don't get immunizations.

For the $20,000 I would have to pay this guy, I can do it for $10 at the zoo. It may even be free on Mondays!
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Old August 8, 2015, 07:05 PM   #24
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If you really want to exponentially increase your chance of death during an African safari, don't get immunizations.

For the $20,000 I would have to pay this guy, I can do it for $10 at the zoo. It may even be free on Mondays!
Spoken like a man who has never spent the first second around free range DG animals on foot.
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Bell who?? He did what with a .275 Rigby?;)

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Old August 8, 2015, 07:08 PM   #25
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I'm not stupid.

ETA: I can with certainty say that malaria kills more people in Africa than cape buffalo.

I have never hunted dangerous game in Africa.

Seems like you took the comment personally. You shouldn't, it was not directed at you or your buddy or anyone for that matter. In fact your response doesn't really seem to line up with my comment. Perhaps my knowledge of English sucks.

Frankly, I don't care what happens in Africa...at all.
I'm just throwing out suggestions to help "hype" up the experience so it can be even more dangerous than claimed.
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