44 Special Pet Loads???

[Float Pilot]

My old 38 WCF (38-40) Colts and Colt Clones (USFA) really like HS-6 as a powder as well. While this 44 Special snub nose does not seem to like it much, I will try your load with my old 6.5 inch model 24.

[Float Pilot]

Hmm.....
Trying to load some of the 215 grain Hollow base wadcutters backwards....
The edges of the huge cavity are hard to not mess up while seating....

Any ideas?

[the Black Spot]

U might try seating with some kind of expander plug or a bolt that fits the press threads, or put a washer over bullet and use bottom of die to push bullet down, then crimp in a separate step.

[Float Pilot]

OK,,, I managed to get some loaded before the sun went down too far for the chronograph to work. Which is about 1540 hours this time of year...

WARNING******* I goofed up because I was in a hurry***** and loaded these too hot without working my way up......
Never again...

THESE LOADS ARE TOO HOT FOR A LIGHTWEIGHT ALLOY GUN. Maybe in a 44 mag.... DO NOT USE THIS DATA.

EVEN THOUGH THE POWDER CHARGE IS THE SAME FOR ANOTHER TYPE OF LEAD BULLET WEIGHING THE SAME, THESE BULLETS HAVE MORE DRAG AND ARE SEATED DEEPER. SO THEY ARE GOING 100 FPS FASTER THAN THE OTHER BULLET AND HAVE LOTS OF PRESSURE SIGNS.

2.1 inch Taurus M-445 15 yards
Temp 15 degrees F, Chrono at 10 ft.

Matts Bullets:

180 gr Lead Full Wadcutter
8.2 grains HP-38
WW-WLP 1.220 COL Roll Crimp
Vel= 1,090 fps and a 1.25 inch group at point of aim
Little Too Hot, moving down to 990 or 1,000 fps would be a better load.

216 grain Lead Wad Cutter Hollow Base
7.3 grains HP-38
WW-WLP, 1.235 COL Roll Crimp
Vel= 1,005 fps 1. 25 inch group, at point of aim
Hard extraction, too hot

216 grain Lead Wad-Cutter hollow base, reversed as hollow nose
7.3 grains HP-38
WW-WLP, 1.235 col, roll crimp
Vel = 1,066 fps and a 2.0 inch group. 2 inches high
Fails to extract, far too hot.

[jibjab]

Anyway, does anyone have any A# 5 loads???

I load 8.5gr of Accurate #5 with Nosler 200gr jhp WLP in WW cases for a S&W 696 the shell extraction is good and so is the accuracy.

[Float Pilot]

JIBJAB:

Did you happen to run that load over a chronograph????

I can't find a S&W 696, even though I have been looking for a year.


Can you take a set of calipers to yours and measure the metal thickness between the chambers and also the outside diameter of the cylinder?

I tried some AA # 5 a week ago from the 2 inch barrel;

180 grain Hornady XTP HP
10.5gr AA#5
WW Brass, WLP, Roll Crimp
Vel=900 fps and a 2 inch group 3.5 inches low

200 grain Hornady XTP HP
9.7gr AA#5
WW brass, WLP, Roll Crimp
Vel= 830 fps and a 2.5 inch group 3 inches low

240 grain Keith style SWC
9.0gr AA#5
WW brass, WLP, Roll Crimp
Vel= 803 fps and a 1.0 inch group 1 inch low

[jfh]

I have a whole set of the complete run of AA#5 loads like jibjab's, plus some True Blue, just waiting for next spring. They were to be run through the chrono this year, from a 396 (2.5") and a 624 (4")--plus some others of the Power Pistol loads out of handloader--but health issues (bad hip) kept me largely from shooting this year.

So, we may be able to get some temperature coefficients as well, since Float Pilot works so well in the cold. I don't set up the chrono until it's at least 60F--I've gotten soft in my old age.

Jim H.

[Float Pilot]

Now that I have used a punch to get the brass out of the chambers,,,I have some semi-rancid hog shoulders to use as a test medium for the reversed hollow base wad-cutters. I just need to thaw them out and keep them from re-freezing during the tests.
Of course I need to cut the powder charge way-----back....

This time of year we loose about 5 minutes a day in the sun-light dept. I always find December to be a very depressing month...

[the Black Spot]

I tested some blazer 44 special 200 gr jhp (speer gold dot), they perform well good mushrooming and decent accuracy. Still gonna find a plinker load and a load for hunting backup.

[Float Pilot]

I thought that it was interesting how much more pressure (and velocity) was produced by loading those hollow based wadcutters backwards.

I knocked out the brass with a punch and took the entire gun apart to inspect for damage. I could not find anything wrong, but I might wear a face shield and helmet for the first few rounds of my next range session.

[Float Pilot]

Well it was SIX DEGREES at the range today. The sun was fading fast and there was a light breeze coming from the ocean which made 6 degrees feel much worse.

I took two guns out today
The Taurus M-445 with the 2.1 inch barrel and an old S&W Model 24 with a 6.5 inch barrel
Target at 15 yards, Chronograph at 12 feet

185 grain full wad-cutter
7.5 grains Power Pistol
WW brass, WLP
1.219 col roll crimp
Taurus-903 fps 1.5 inch grp
S&W - 1003 fps and a one hole group

255 grain Keith SWC
7.5 grains Power Pistol
WW-WLP
1.594 COL Roll Crimp
Taurus=770 fps and a 3.0 inch group
S&W= 832 fps and a 0.75 inch group

240 grain Keith Stle SWC
7.5 grains Power Pistol
WW, WLP
1.483 col Roll Crimp
Taurus=820 fps and a 1.0 inch group
S&W = 905 fps and a one hole group less than half an inch

216 grain Hollow based Wad-Cutter
7.0 grains of Power Pistol
WW-WLP
1.296 col and a roll crimp
Taurus = WOULD NOT CHAMBER FULLY DUE TO FROZEN LUBE
S&W = 920 fps and a 0.50 inch group

216 grain Hollow Base Wad_cutter REVERSED
7.0 grains POWER PISTOL
WW, WLP
1.299 col. Roll Crimp
Taurus = Would not seat properly
S&W = 950 fps and a 1.0 inch group

216 grain Hollow Based Wadcutter
7.5 grains POWER PISTOL
WW-WLP
1.296 col and a roll crimp.
Taurus = Chambering problems. Plus hands freezing..
S&W = 985 fps and a ragged hole about 1/2 inch in diameter.

[the Black Spot]

Well that is some nice shooting with those revolvers, especially the m24

[Float Pilot]

Plus 60 to 100 fps velocity gain from the 2.1 inch barrel to the 6 1/2 inch barrel. Which is not as uniform as I was expecting.
This thread has a lot of hits on it...

[the Black Spot]

yep, looks like the most velocity gain was with lighter bullets. one of these days i hope to get some power pistol, it is close to unique in burn rate.
hope to get out and test some more loads with unique and my bulldog, but trapping is in full swing and time is short. i also want to test some blackpowder in the 44 special as well.

[jibjab]

Can you take a set of calipers to yours and measure the metal thickness between the chambers and also the outside diameter of the cylinder?

.159" 1.56"

With the 696 here is the concern,
001.JPG
The S&W 696 is a 686 bored for 44spl, as you can see the forcing cone lacks material, I do not push mine very hard.

[Float Pilot]

The Taurus is very thin around the forcing cone as well.
I was worried last Wednesday when my loads were overly hot....I had to beat the brass out one at a time with a punch.

It looks like the steel between the chambers on your 696 is a little thicker than the Taurus. The Taurus fits in a Python Holster. I always thought the L Frame series was the same size as a Python, but now I am guessing it is a little larger.

OUTSIDE DIAMETER OF CYLINDER
Taurus 445 = 1.530in
Charter Bulldog = 1.450 inch

CYLINDER LENGTH
Taurus 445 = 1.579in
Charter Bulldog = 1.582

MINIMUM THICKNESS BETWEEN CHAMBERS
Taurus 445 = 0.100 inch AT THE BASE OF THE CLYINDER.. It is 0.132 on the front end.
Charter Bulldog = 0.079 inch

BARREL LENGTH
Taurus 445 = 2.110 inch
Charter Bulldog = 2.465 inch

[jfh]

Hmmm--the last time I had to beat .357 Mag brass out, the heads separated on the 3rd-4th-5th removals.

IIRC, Jibjab helped come up with a PSI of perhaps 70,000 on all 5 rounds fired in the 640....

The gunsmith examined it and found stretchmarks at all five chambers. S&W rebuilt it for me.

Jim H.

[jibjab]

IIRC, Jibjab helped come up with a PSI of perhaps 70,000 on all 5 rounds fired in the 640...

That wasn't me, but I did recommend having the gun checked out by a gunsmith.

[Float Pilot]

I looked over and re-measured the chambers in the Taurus. Plus I measured fired bras from the Taurus and my S&W. The fired brass from the old S&W is actually more bulged than the Taurus. .459-.460 for the S&W and .455 for the Taurus. So I think I dodged a bullet on that one...

[Float Pilot]

I fired a couple of reversed wad-cutters into some hog meat... But I managed to get myself sidetracked (wife came home and was wondering what I was doing)
So I left it outside a little too long at 5 below zero... So now it is in my shop re-thawing... before I can dig out the slugs...

[the Black Spot]

Can't wait to see those results!

[Float Pilot]

OK, I thawed out the meat and finally found most of the bullet pieces.

These two were at point blank range, with a 900 fps load. They really slapped the hog quarter and made the meat swell up around the entry holes. Like the size of a ceral bowl.

BUT, one only penetrated a little more than 4 inches. The other left most of the pieces at around 4 inches and the bullet base when another 3 inches.

And as you can see, the sides of the cavity pealed back so far that that broke loose. It might work at a lower velocity. You would not have an over-penetration problem.

216 grain hollow based wadcutters loaded in reverse at 900 fps.

[jibjab]

That whole upside down HBWC thing never made sense to me, not enough penetration.

[Float Pilot]

Probably only worth while if you were attacked by zombie anorexic super models.

My range buddy who runs a six-pax halibut fishing charter boat used to employ reversed 38 special hollow based wadcutters as his halibut shooting rounds. But like almost all halibut fisherman he eventually went to using a small shotgun to make them stop thrashing...

[jibjab]

Probably only worth while if you were attacked by zombie anorexic super models.

At my age that doesn't sound that scary, I could get by with a air soft