What can you tell me about this old Colt?

Fishbed77 · April 23, 2013, 03:36 PM

The uncle of one of my close friends passed away. He had a rather large gun collection that will be auctioned as part of an estate sale. Most are pretty uninteresting no-name double-barrel & single-barrel shotguns, but one Colt caught my eye. There's no description other than "Colt 45 cal. 1911 or 1915". There's an arched mainspring which makes me think it's a later pistol than that. Can someone tell me what I'm looking at? Sorry I don't have some better photos to post.

gunfish · April 23, 2013, 04:08 PM

It is not a 1911. It could be a 1911A1, Government Model, or maybe Argentine. It was made no earlier 1927 I would think. Whatever it is, it is a shooter type so value is 400$ to 500 to me.

Bobson · April 23, 2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunfish

It is not a 1911. It could be a 1911A1, Government Model, or maybe Argentine. It was made no earlier 1927 I would think. Whatever it is, it is a shooter type so value is 400$ to 500 to me.

What's the difference between a 1911 and a 1911A1? I mean, what makes you say, "It's not a 1911, but it might be a 1911A1"?

tarosean · April 23, 2013, 05:56 PM

^ the relief cuts behind the trigger
Arched MSH
Tang for grip safety

Jim Watson · April 23, 2013, 06:31 PM

In the absence of clear pictures showing serial number and other markings or a very detailed and knowledgeable description of same, all we can say is that it is a 1911A1 or post 1925 Government Model.

The stocks are Herretts, not Colt or Army.

Onmilo · April 24, 2013, 06:33 AM

Is this some kind of a test??

Fishbed77 · April 24, 2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Is this some kind of a test??

Haha -no. Unfortunately, I only have access to this one crappy photo from the auctioneer's website.

I was just trying to figure out if it was worth my time to get up early on a Saturday morning!

bigdaa · April 24, 2013, 11:31 AM

Finish ain't bad. Get your butt out of bed in 34 days and bid on it like bobson quoted.

RainDodger · April 25, 2013, 12:52 PM

It's very hard to tell in that pic how low the ejection port goes... it looks to be very high to me. Grips don't look factory either. It has the A1 profile on the receiver and a short trigger, but that's about all you can tell from that picture.

Fishbed77 · April 25, 2013, 02:27 PM

I was able to get two close-up photos of the serial number and rollmarks from the auctioneer.

I ran the serial number on Colt's website, and these hits (among many other non-1911 models) came up. Still a bit perplexed, as none of these seem to match this pistol.

1949 COMMANDER
1933 ACE MODEL .22
1929 SUPER .38 MODEL INCLUDING SUPER MATCH .38
1918 MODEL 1911 MILITARY
1912 MODEL 1911 MILITARY

Could it be a 1911 that was updated to 1911A1 standard? Would this have been done by a government armory? Thanks in advance for any help/guidance.

rondog · April 25, 2013, 03:38 PM

That pistol's had the serial number changed. The serial number on the right by the trigger NEVER looked like that, and there were never numbers like that on the left side of any slides either. I'd stay far away from it!

Sorry.

45_auto · April 25, 2013, 03:45 PM

The 7790314 slide is a government contract replacement slide made in the 50's or 60's.

It could also be an early National Match "hard" slide, they were also marked with only the 7790314 contract number.

Article on them here:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm

No clue on the frame number.

rondog · April 25, 2013, 03:54 PM

45 auto's probably right about the slide. But the frame number looks waaaay too fishy, IMO. The finish in the area where that number is even looks like it's been altered.

wv109323 · April 25, 2013, 05:52 PM

I have never seen a contract slide marked by Colt on the right side. I thought they simply had the part number.The frame is aftermarket or foreign. It is a pistol made from parts and may be a good shooter but would have no collector value and a value much less than an original firearm.

dfariswheel · April 25, 2013, 07:20 PM

I suspect that what you have is an Argentine .45 auto made under Colt license with a replacement Colt slide made in the 50's or 60's.

The Argentine made 1911 and 1911-A1 pistols had serial numbers that used that font style.
An American made Colt commercial gun from that era would have a serial number that starts with a "C" as in C12345.
A USGI issue .45 made by any government contractor will have a serial that starts with "No" as in No12345.

Best guess: An Argentine military contract frame with a replacement American GI slide.

Fishbed77 · April 25, 2013, 11:36 PM

Thanks for all the info, guys!

Onmilo · April 26, 2013, 11:00 AM

Seriously! Is this a test?
The gun screams "FAKE" & "Run Away!"

The slide is an Early Colt commercial someone has added a Canadian Arsenals replacement slide number onto the left side.
These slides were made in the late 70s early 80s as USGI replacements and were commonly used to build Match guns
No Colt made slides were ever marked with that 77 number I am aware of and certainly not in the era the slide was produced.

The frame numbers, at least the first two digits, look to be Argentine 1927 markings, the last two digits were stamped later and are missing the Serifs.
The trigger appears to be Argentine, as does the hammer.

Look closely at the mainspring housing. If the checkering is impressed instead of being raised, it is a dead giveaway the frame is from an Argentinian made pistol. HTH

Jim K · April 26, 2013, 10:17 PM

It is a Colt Ace frame and the number is perfectly proper for that gun. The slide is a U.S. contract replacement slide. The number is an Ordnance material stock number and was used by all countries that used U.S. supplied ordnance materiel. It is not an FSN or NSN.

I wouldn't call it a "fake" unless it is being passed off as something it is not. It IS a mixmaster but the parts are of good quality and it should be fine for shooting.

Jim

Onmilo · April 27, 2013, 01:57 AM

When I first saw the numbers I thought the same thing, an ACE frame, so I dug Clawson out.
The numbers just don't look right for a 1933 production ACE receiver, the numbers look altered.
That is why I suggest looking at the mainspring housing.
If they just stamped some numbers to fool and weren't too careful in other areas,,,,,

hang fire · April 27, 2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobson

What's the difference between a 1911 and a 1911A1? I mean, what makes you say, "It's not a 1911, but it might be a 1911A1"?

1911

1911A1

April 23, 2013, 03:36 PM	#1
Fishbed77 Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 1,301	What can you tell me about this old Colt? The uncle of one of my close friends passed away. He had a rather large gun collection that will be auctioned as part of an estate sale. Most are pretty uninteresting no-name double-barrel & single-barrel shotguns, but one Colt caught my eye. There's no description other than "Colt 45 cal. 1911 or 1915". There's an arched mainspring which makes me think it's a later pistol than that. Can someone tell me what I'm looking at? Sorry I don't have some better photos to post.

April 23, 2013, 06:31 PM	#5
Jim Watson Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 16,543	In the absence of clear pictures showing serial number and other markings or a very detailed and knowledgeable description of same, all we can say is that it is a 1911A1 or post 1925 Government Model. The stocks are Herretts, not Colt or Army. __________________ I have a few facts and a lot of opinions.

April 25, 2013, 12:52 PM	#9
RainDodger Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Location: Great Northwest Posts: 449	It's very hard to tell in that pic how low the ejection port goes... it looks to be very high to me. Grips don't look factory either. It has the A1 profile on the receiver and a short trigger, but that's about all you can tell from that picture. __________________ Roger Life Member, NRA, since 1975 Reloading, since '69 USN, Retired

April 25, 2013, 03:38 PM	#11
rondog Member Join Date: June 29, 2007 Location: Commurado Posts: 4,797	That pistol's had the serial number changed. The serial number on the right by the trigger NEVER looked like that, and there were never numbers like that on the left side of any slides either. I'd stay far away from it! Sorry. __________________ Ever feel like the world's a tuxedo, and you're a pair of brown shoes? - George Gobel

April 25, 2013, 03:45 PM	#12
45_auto Member Join Date: January 3, 2011 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 1,018	The 7790314 slide is a government contract replacement slide made in the 50's or 60's. It could also be an early National Match "hard" slide, they were also marked with only the 7790314 contract number. Article on them here: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm No clue on the frame number. Last edited by 45_auto; April 25, 2013 at 03:53 PM.

April 23, 2013, 04:08 PM	#2
gunfish Member Join Date: August 21, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 37	It is not a 1911. It could be a 1911A1, Government Model, or maybe Argentine. It was made no earlier 1927 I would think. Whatever it is, it is a shooter type so value is 400$ to 500 to me.

April 23, 2013, 05:56 PM	#4
tarosean Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Location: Madisonville, TX Posts: 2,028	^ the relief cuts behind the trigger Arched MSH Tang for grip safety

April 24, 2013, 06:33 AM	#6
Onmilo Member Join Date: July 26, 2004 Location: Illinois` Posts: 8,311	Is this some kind of a test??

April 24, 2013, 11:31 AM	#8
bigdaa member Join Date: April 12, 2013 Location: Goleta, CA Posts: 357	Finish ain't bad. Get your butt out of bed in 34 days and bid on it like bobson quoted.

April 25, 2013, 02:27 PM	#10
Fishbed77 Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 1,301	I was able to get two close-up photos of the serial number and rollmarks from the auctioneer. I ran the serial number on Colt's website, and these hits (among many other non-1911 models) came up. Still a bit perplexed, as none of these seem to match this pistol. 1949 COMMANDER 1933 ACE MODEL .22 1929 SUPER .38 MODEL INCLUDING SUPER MATCH .38 1918 MODEL 1911 MILITARY 1912 MODEL 1911 MILITARY Could it be a 1911 that was updated to 1911A1 standard? Would this have been done by a government armory? Thanks in advance for any help/guidance.

April 25, 2013, 03:54 PM	#13
rondog Member Join Date: June 29, 2007 Location: Commurado Posts: 4,797	45 auto's probably right about the slide. But the frame number looks waaaay too fishy, IMO. The finish in the area where that number is even looks like it's been altered. __________________ Ever feel like the world's a tuxedo, and you're a pair of brown shoes? - George Gobel

April 25, 2013, 05:52 PM	#14
wv109323 Member Join Date: April 21, 2009 Location: Lenore , WV Posts: 56	I have never seen a contract slide marked by Colt on the right side. I thought they simply had the part number.The frame is aftermarket or foreign. It is a pistol made from parts and may be a good shooter but would have no collector value and a value much less than an original firearm.

April 25, 2013, 07:20 PM	#15
dfariswheel Member Join Date: December 26, 2002 Posts: 5,738	I suspect that what you have is an Argentine .45 auto made under Colt license with a replacement Colt slide made in the 50's or 60's. The Argentine made 1911 and 1911-A1 pistols had serial numbers that used that font style. An American made Colt commercial gun from that era would have a serial number that starts with a "C" as in C12345. A USGI issue .45 made by any government contractor will have a serial that starts with "No" as in No12345. Best guess: An Argentine military contract frame with a replacement American GI slide.

April 25, 2013, 11:36 PM	#16
Fishbed77 Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 1,301	Thanks for all the info, guys!

April 26, 2013, 11:00 AM	#17
Onmilo Member Join Date: July 26, 2004 Location: Illinois` Posts: 8,311	Seriously! Is this a test? The gun screams "FAKE" & "Run Away!" The slide is an Early Colt commercial someone has added a Canadian Arsenals replacement slide number onto the left side. These slides were made in the late 70s early 80s as USGI replacements and were commonly used to build Match guns No Colt made slides were ever marked with that 77 number I am aware of and certainly not in the era the slide was produced. The frame numbers, at least the first two digits, look to be Argentine 1927 markings, the last two digits were stamped later and are missing the Serifs. The trigger appears to be Argentine, as does the hammer. Look closely at the mainspring housing. If the checkering is impressed instead of being raised, it is a dead giveaway the frame is from an Argentinian made pistol. HTH

April 26, 2013, 10:17 PM	#18
Jim K Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 13,096	It is a Colt Ace frame and the number is perfectly proper for that gun. The slide is a U.S. contract replacement slide. The number is an Ordnance material stock number and was used by all countries that used U.S. supplied ordnance materiel. It is not an FSN or NSN. I wouldn't call it a "fake" unless it is being passed off as something it is not. It IS a mixmaster but the parts are of good quality and it should be fine for shooting. Jim

April 27, 2013, 01:57 AM	#19
Onmilo Member Join Date: July 26, 2004 Location: Illinois` Posts: 8,311	When I first saw the numbers I thought the same thing, an ACE frame, so I dug Clawson out. The numbers just don't look right for a 1933 production ACE receiver, the numbers look altered. That is why I suggest looking at the mainspring housing. If they just stamped some numbers to fool and weren't too careful in other areas,,,,,