School me on the SKS

[MuleRyder]

Back in the early 90s I bought an original 51 Russian Tula at a gun show for $125. At the time I didn't really know what I was buying. Must be worth a few bucks now considering the prices people are paying for refurbs.

[thralldad]

Mine apparently spent some time in Albania as some Joe carved his name into the stock! My sons has a flying bird carved into it. I discovered it when I was refinishing the stocks. They were cosmetically horrible but cleaned up real nice!

[ApacheCoTodd]

Originally Posted by MuleRyder

Back in the early 90s I bought an original 51 Russian Tula at a gun show for $125. At the time I didn't really know what I was buying. Must be worth a few bucks now considering the prices people are paying for refurbs.

Yeah, from the "what was I thinking?" department: I distinctly recall "Jim's Pawn Shop" in Fayetteville, NC selling arsenal new for $79.95 each if you bought a case at a time and they came with squad level accessories to boot.

All I could think was what was I going to do with all the extra carbines and crap once I bought the case?

Money wasn't too big a problem and I flirted at one time with getting 3 cases; one to split up and two to salt away for investment but given the clear lack of interest in the market and zero availability of reasonable ammo in the mid 80s, I passed.

Damn & tarnation on past me for not seeing the opportunity there!

[119er]

I think the popularity of this post speaks to that of the rifle. I went through a period of about a year where I bought every reasonably priced SKS I could find. I did the whole Tapco route for a while and had not a single malfunction even with the drop free mod to the bolt. To me, the original format and stripper clips are king. A little more awkward and out of the comfort zone of some, but they are very fast to reload with. 200 yd 8" shots are not that difficult either. They are crude by western standards but are built from from forged steel receivers (there are some stamped Chinese). I would not hesitate to defend myself with one. Not as my first choice, but far from last!

[mac66]

My SKSs include, left to right...They are fun to play with. (thats a Mini 30 on the far left) then the...

Chinese "Paratrooper", Yugo, Albanian, Chinese and Russian. That "paratrooper" model makes a great little truck gun. I also had 5 or 6 others including a couple of the detachable mag versions that took AK mags. Neither were reliable.



I put a Tech Sights on the Chinese one and the Mini 30 recently. Love those sights.



I was fortunate to get mine way back when the getting was good. Not one of those cost me more than $100 and the Chinese ones were considerably cheaper than that.

[nathan]

My Yugo M 59/66 shoots the tightest groups vs the CHicom and Russian. Using Yugo surplus FMJ, i got 2 inch groups at 100 yds on sandbag rest. The Yugo has a heavier barrel, heavy wood stock and no chromelined barrel. Its like a mass produced bench gun if you have to look at . It has much less felt recoil and muzzle rise.

[kBob]

SO has anyone here done a trajectory test on the SKS where in one zeros with the rifle on the 100 meter setting to hit POA and then gone back to the battle sight setting to see how much higher the hits are at 100 meters, and 200 meters?

I believe that the battle sight (fully to the rear position) is the same as the 300 meter rear sight position.

I seem to recall there is a chart showing this in Hatcher's note book which seems to have gone walk about, but was wondering if anyone had checked this in tha last couple of decades and with different SKS makes and different ammo.

ALso anyone have any luck with a long Eye releif mount and scope a la Scout rifle style scoping? The gas tube mounts seem to far out their to me and I wonder if the rear sight leaf replacements place the scope to far back to allow stripper loading.

Just want to know.

-kBob

[shep854]

I worked for a distributor in the days of (wholesale) $79 SKS' and $119 AKs. I just couldn't bring myself to like them, though I could have gotten them at cost.
Silly me.

I DID pick up an M1 and an M1A, though--for considerably more money, of course.

[nathan]

Battle sight s are set to zero at 300 meters.

[shep854]

Actually BZO varies according the the ballistics of the rifle's ammo. 'Battlesight Zero' is the maximum range at which an effective hit can be obtained without holding over.

For full-power battle rifles, this does indeed come out to about 300 yards. For a cartridge with a higher trajectory, it will be less. For a flatter-shooting caliber, farther.

In artillery, this is the 'point-blank' range.

[Swampman]

Originally posted by shep854
"Actually BZO varies according the the ballistics of the rifle's ammo. 'Battlesight Zero' is the maximum range at which an effective hit can be obtained without holding over.

For full-power battle rifles, this does indeed come out to about 300 yards. For a cartridge with a higher trajectory, it will be less. For a flatter-shooting caliber, farther.

In artillery, this is the 'point-blank' range."

We're not talking apples to apples here.
nathan never mentioned a BZO, I believe he was referring the the rearmost sight setting or "battle sight" of the SKS. The rearmost sight setting on an SKS is designed to be "on" out to 300 meters assuming the use of standard ammunition and a proper 100 meter zero.

While everything you said was true, you've got to take into account that the thread title is "School me on the SKS" . Talking about a 300 meter battlesight zero for "full-power battle rifles" and then saying that weapons with a higher trajectory will have a shorter range battlesight zero just confuses the issue.

They're talking about an actual sight setting that's designed to ensure a casualty at any range out to 300 meters with a center of mass hold, much like the 547 yard battlesight on the old 1903 Springfield.

[trueg50]

kBob: with Tech-Sights you zero at 20 yards, and it will be 3 inches high at 100 yards, and then be dead on at 200 yards. The TS100 has 2 rear apertures; one 0-2 for 0-200 yard shots, and the other aperture is for 300 yards, and will thus be dead on at 300 yards.

As for the open sight.. I'd keep your shots to under 100 yards, as the stock AK-style sights aren't very good!

[shep854]

Swampman, thanks for explaining; learning about the SKS' features is why I am on this thread!

[MyRoad]

ALso anyone have any luck with a long Eye releif mount and scope a la Scout rifle style scoping? The gas tube mounts seem to far out their to me and I wonder if the rear sight leaf replacements place the scope to far back to allow stripper loading.

I have about a half dozen SKS's, and haven't been able to leave any of them stock. I have spent a good deal of time (not to mention money) trying to find the best way to reliably scope one. None of the receiver cover or gas tube types of mounts are very tight, so unless you are just looking for something to hang a red dot on for HD (under 100 foot shots), they are not reliable.

The only truly solid mounts I've found are the Choate mounts, which are drilled and tapped to the side of the receiver. They are high (unconventional cheek weld position), and heavy (built like a tank), will eliminate the use of stripper clips, and will leave the front of your scope exposed to flying shell cases... but they do hold zero! And you don't need to remove the scope to clean the rifle.

As far as scout scopes go, this one has the best reputation on the SKS boards. I bought one for an SKS bullpup project I have, but have not mounted or tried it yet. From the pictures on their website, you will either need to use a red dot, or you'll need to remove the scope each time you clean the rifle (or at least each time you clean the gas tube).

[DesertFox]

Last I checked the Chinese SKS was not C&R elgible. Has that changed?

It is in fact eligible.

[meanmrmustard]

Originally Posted by murphys_law

Yup not cheap here either.

Still cheap here. Not early 90's cheap, but Norincos still in and around 200-300.
Russian went for $450 at the shop Thursday, in VGA condition.

Still the poor mans battle rifle, as it should be. For now.

[Swampman]

Originally posted by: jimmyraythomason
Last I checked the Chinese SKS was not C&R elgible. Has that changed?

Originally posted by: DesertFox

It is in fact eligible.

It is, in fact, NOT eligible , unless it meets the very specific (and well documented) circumstances listed here:

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ng-2001-3.html

Unless the weapons were built before the 1994 ban AND have spent the five years immediately prior to their importation into the US in a non proscribed country, they're still illegal to import.

UNLESS, it can be proven to the satisfaction of the BATF that a particular Chinese SKS is more than 50 years old. Which due to Chinese marking practices and the need for each weapon to be individually assessed, isn't going to happen on rifles that aren't likely to sell for more than $400 each.

The only reason that the recent batch(s) of Chinese SKS's were allowed into the US is that the importer(s) was/were able to prove (with original documents) that the guns had spent at least five years soaking up the free air of the Balkens; an amount of time that is apparently enough to leach the evil "Chineseness" out of the wood and steel.

Heck, I guess that makes at LEAST as much sense as 922(r)...

[stubbicatt]

I have had different experiences I guess than you guys shooting the SKS at 300 meters. With the rear sight on 300, I was bouncing a laundry detergent bottle all over the hillside with steel cased Russian ammunition. There were many holes in that bottle when I went and retrieved it.

A buddy did the same thing with the same rifle, and we are by no means young men with stellar vision.

To my way of seeing things, that rifle is competent for a likely head shot at 300.

I haven't shot it further than that.

[krupparms]

I have used mine for hunting deer here in Oregon never had to make a shot over 200 yards & it has worked fine. I picked up quite a few back in the late 80s cheap. I would have to agree it makes a fine combat weapon. Yes there are better choices . But the SKS will more than likely do the job & do it well. And the price still can't be beat.

[taybri]

Here is my bubba yugo sks project. I cut off all the useless grenade launcher and bayonet stuff and three inches of barrel. Had a gunsmith re crown the barrel. I chopped the bayo stud off the front sight base and trimmed it to essentials. I filled the bayo gap in the stock and refinished it with tung oil and finishing wax. Gun weighs a couple pounds less than it used to and handles much better. Functions perfectly. Gun is now a fun usable sporting rifle instead of a clunky military relic.

[bigdaa]

I've had three, all Russian.

One blacked out bolt laminated parade gun,

One converted to wooden Monte Carlo,

One given to my brother as a gift.


Therefore, shooting wise I have had really only one to digest.

I've fired thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds through the Monte Carlo. One broken part, the piston extension.

I tried the ChiCom fixed 20 round mag, didn't like it.
I tried the removable 30 rounders, didn't like them.

Sold all of the above and went with the stock magazine situation many years ago and stayed with it.

This is a stout rifle able to take abuse no doubt. Accuracy? I never peppered paper with it, only cans and such. It does make them bounce and is a blast at the hundred plus yard distances.

It will suffer corrosion with the import military ammo, so you do have to treat it well and proper to make sure it stays unaffected. BUT......it's easy to take it to the sink when it's broken down as receiver and barrel all go together in one nice chunk.

As stated before, the stripper loading takes a bit of educating and familiarity to master, but you'll have no problem.

[nathan]

THey are great guns for the money. THE first centerfire rifle i ve owned and i still have it. Long Live the Russian SKS ! IF not for the SKS, i wouldnt have started into rifles. $130 plus tax back in 1995 for an unissued SKS was so hard to resist.
Now i have several and regretted not one bit. Its like the Russian version of the US M1 30 carbine.

[jrdolall]

A Russian SKS was the first "military style assault weapon" or whatever they are calling them these days. I have modified it to put a folding stock and a duckbill magazine on it and then put it back to original because I like the looks. I have never had an FTF of any kind that I recall but I have maybe put 2k rounds through it since I bought it. I have no problem with the sights or with the trigger on mine. It is about as simple to break down as anything out there and easy to clean.

I have no recollection of what I paid but it was -$200 and was more than worth it. I like it as much as my AKs for my purpose which is pulling it out to show to people and occasionally shooting a piece of paper. If an actual battle erupts I will probably grab it as soon as I soil my underwear.

[Cee Zee]

A Russian SKS was the first "military style assault weapon"

Actually most people would say the German Sturmgewehr 44 is the first assault rifle. I found this quote on Wikipedia:

The StG 44 (Sturmgewehr 44, literally "storm (or assault) rifle (model of 19)44" was an assault rifle developed in Nazi Germany during World War II that was the first of its kind to see major deployment and is considered by many historians to be the first modern assault rifle.

So not only was this the first assault weapon but it's the place the term "assault rifle" came from. It fired a medium size caliber round in full auto or semi-auto mode and it held 30 rounds in a detachable mag that also had the soon to be classic curved look. The only thing bad about that rifle was the weight which was over 10 pounds unloaded. Still it set the standard for modern rifles. The US had their own copy of that rifle in the M2 carbine which went into production in May of 1945. It saw little action in WWII but it was clearly an attempt to copy what the Germans were doing. It saw extensive use in Korea.

This photo of the 44 is also from Wikipedia: