I took the plunge

[avs11054]

Well, I gave in to the craze and bought an evil black rifle. I justified it though (even if it is only to myself). I got a DPMS Tac-20, which is a .308 caliber AR with a 20 inch barrel and a quad rail. I have wanted an AR in .308 caliber for about two years now, and this particular model for several months. I expect to get dual use out of it as an HD weapon and a deer/elk hunting rifle.

While I do not think that there is much of a chance for these types of guns or even mags for these guns to be banned, I do think there is a slight possibility. When I was considering that I might be overpaying for it, I figured that worse case scenario is that gun prices go back to their current levels, and I will be kicking myself for overpaying. But, even if that happens, nobody knows when or even if prices will return to their previous prices if a ban does not happen.

But when I thought of other scenarios, I realized that this particular model is not as easy as some of the other models to find. There is also the chance that this type of gun will be banned, and then I would be kicking myself for not buying a gun that I have wanted for a while. The gun also had a couple upgrades, and while they were not worth the increased cost of the gun, they still would have made the gun worth more that the stock gun.

When it was all said and done, I decided that I would be more mad at myself for not buying the gun I wanted when I had the chance if the gun ended up being banned, than buying the gun that drops a little in value after the ban craze goes away. Bottom line is that I plan to get years of use out of this gun. It is not intended to be a stock that I hope goes up and not down in value.

I will hopefully be picking up the gun in about two weeks.

[JohnnyK]

.308 rifles rock! you won't regret it the second she's in your arms... and then after the first shot breaks... you'll forget about the price... once you get her set up and dressed up just like you want it... you'll enjoy her for years! range report is requested!

[Cesiumsponge]

You're going to run a quasi-battle rifle as home defense rig?

[Kansan]

Were you able to pick up any magazines for the rifle? I just ordered a few PMag .308 magazines today from Midway. They were back ordered and only allowed me to order 2, but hopefully I'll see them someday. I think PMags will work with DPMS style ARs. I'm about halfway through a build for a .308 AR (the FAR 308), but I've been buying magazines every now and then since I first bought the lower 6 or 7 months ago in anticipation of Obama's second term. I'm glad I did now.

[avs11054]

range report is requested!

Will do.

You're going to run a quasi-battle rifle as home defense rig?

For when the zombies come...

Were you able to pick up any magazines for the rifle?

It came with one pmag. How much were the pmags going for on midway? I'd like to get some more...Not to concerned about the wait.

[Kansan]

They are $18.95 and it states that "backorder is OK" meaning that you can still order them. Here's the link:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/838...-polymer-black

It specifically mentions being compatible with DPMS-LR308, but you might double check it's the same for the TAC-20 (I assume it is...)

[avs11054]

They take the same mags. I bid on some on gunbroker. I'm guessing that I will get outbid. I'm hoping that I do, and i'll order some from midway.

[Carne Frio]

I the Bushmaster .308 MOE. Very similar to the DPMS.
Both take the Pmags. DSG Arms is also taking orders
for the mags (backorder), at $19.95
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/MAG243BLK.aspx

[SigSour]

Congrads!

[Trent]

Originally Posted by Cesiumsponge

You're going to run a quasi-battle rifle as home defense rig?

You mean, you don't?

[blarby]

Note : backorder on pmags at midway as of yesterday was 19,000 orders.

Orders- not magazines.

You thought the DMV was bad ?

[Cesiumsponge]

Midway and Brownells are still taking backorders last I checked at NORMAL prices. Places like CTD are charging $100 per Colt 30-round mag and $600 for a Beta.

[Kansan]

backorder on pmags at midway as of yesterday was 19,000 orders.

That might just be on .223 pmags... I imagine that the .308 isn't in as high demand. Maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part, though

[Yo Mama]

You're going to run a quasi-battle rifle as home defense rig?

Buddy of mine used his AR last year to shoot 3 home invaders. I'm wondering, discussion focused on not limiting lawful citizens magazines translates to not being able to use for home defense?

[avs11054]

Buddy of mine used his AR last year to shoot 3 home invaders. I'm wondering, discussion focused on not limiting lawful citizens magazines translates to not being able to use for home defense?

I think he was referring to the .308 caliber part more than the rifle part. But I agree. Limiting magazine capacities would greatly limit peoples' abilities to defend themselves. The anti's want people to believe that self-defense situations only require one bullet.

[Hypnogator]

Buddy of mine used his AR last year to shoot 3 home invaders.

Another shocking example of gun violence claiming the lives of three innocent criminals. Oh, the humanity!

[sean326]

Originally Posted by Cesiumsponge

Midway and Brownells are still taking backorders last I checked at NORMAL prices. Places like CTD are charging $100 per Colt 30-round mag and $600 for a Beta.

My LGS got some pmags and a few ps90 mags in and he sold them at normal price $19.00ish for pmags and $30.00ish for the 50 rd ps90 mags. He said he got them from his distributer for the old price so he sold them at the old price.

I hope people remember CTD, I'm sure they didn't get their mags for much more than whatever wholesale was 3 weeks ago.

[Cesiumsponge]

I'm not looking at telling anyone what to do. .308 seems like a rather epic caliber for home defense. I'm more than happy with 5.56mm ballistics but to each their own and everyone has different residential structures to deal with. I'd probably try doing a tactical rifle course with it to see how it handles. I've never seen anyone bring in a FAL, RFB, or .308 into a tac rifle course before. The bark on that thing during high-volume drills should be awesome.

[Westfair]

Question for .308 AR owners - how's the recoil of the .308 in a light weight platform like the AR? (I mainly shoot an M1A)

[Trent]

Originally Posted by Cesiumsponge

I'm not looking at telling anyone what to do. .308 seems like a rather epic caliber for home defense. I'm more than happy with 5.56mm ballistics but to each their own and everyone has different residential structures to deal with. I'd probably try doing a tactical rifle course with it to see how it handles. I've never seen anyone bring in a FAL, RFB, or .308 into a tac rifle course before. The bark on that thing during high-volume drills should be awesome.

There's some drawbacks.

Shooting it indoors in a defensive role without hearing protection will definitely screw your hearing up permanently. Depending on the construction (or lack) of a flash suppressor and the ambient light conditions you might very well also blind yourself temporarily. Kind of like having a flashbang go off 20" in front of your nose. I remember once I went out back at midnight on the 4th of July and rattled off a few rounds in to my backstop. I was planning on doing a mag dump, but after 4 shots I could no longer SEE the target; or find my way back to the house through the woods! All I saw was a big purple blob in the center of my vision. I had to sit and wait for it to clear.

The advantages? Nothing says "go away and leave me alone" quite like a 30 cal full powered rifle....

[ExTank]

Originally Posted by Trent

The advantages? Nothing says "go away and leave me alone" quite like a 30 cal full powered rifle....

Ayup.

[Yo Mama]

I'm not looking at telling anyone what to do. .308 seems like a rather epic caliber for home defense. I'm more than happy with 5.56mm ballistics but to each their own and everyone has different residential structures to deal with. I'd

I understand, sorry, ballistics should definately be considered. I was more focused on capacity. Thanks.

[avs11054]

Range report:

Finally got this gun out to the range last weekend. Put about 25 rounds through it. I like it. I only have the iron sights on it right now, and I'm not an amazing shot, so the accuracy was lacking. I've got a vortex scope on backorder from midway right now. Pretty excited to get that and get it sited in. It'll be an amazing rifle when that happens.

[Trent]

avs11054,

Bit of advice from an avid lifelong rifleman.

Spend some time to get good with iron sights. It'll make you a better marksman, with or without a scope. The basics are the same. But with iron sights your errors are more obvious.

Learn how to assume the basic unsupported positions, learn how to use a sling properly, learn how to focus on the front sight (even if you're shooting at 300 yards, you focus on the front sight and let your target blur out).

Breath control, hold control, trigger control, sight picture, sight alignment, follow through.

Master all of those things and you can shoot any rifle at any range with any optics or sighting system accurately.

Don't learn to depend on a scope.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't meant to be condescending with this advice. If you've already mastered those things, then by all means let the advice stand for other shooters. If there's other reasons that rifle accuracy suffers without a scope (such as my eyes, not allowing me to SEE a target at that range when my glasses prescription needs adjusting every couple of years), then feel free to tell me to butt the hell out.

But I will say I've been practicing those things above for a long, long time and have yet to master them all. I *have* finally gotten as accurate at 100 yards with iron sights as I am with a scope, but as the range extends beyond that, my eyes don't let me see my target clearly. When I get my new prescription this spring, I'll be back to my old self and plugging away at 300 yard targets with my old iron sight bolt actions and semi-autos. But until then, I'm kind of on a 100-200 yard diet with iron sights.

To be honest, no one is perfect, and I will always stand by my advice for using iron sights when practicing. Every time I go shooting at the rifle range, unless I'm task-oriented (such as ladder testing which requires my full attention), I'll bring along a non-scoped rifle to do most of my practice with. Then once I'm good and warmed up I'll grab the bolt gun with the scope to really fine tune myself.

If your intention is to use this rifle as a home-defense weapon, I would STRONGLY advise not getting a scope on it, because it'll be useless for that purpose. A) You don't need a scope at those ranges; heck, you don't even have to USE your sights at those ranges with practice. And B - scopes simply do NOT work indoors.

If you're going to add an aiming aid, a holographic sight is your best option for interior. No magnification. They make you much faster at acquiring targets, and I've proven on the range that even with a 223, I can hit a torso sized target 100% of the time with my unmagnified Eotech.

Anyway, end of advice, take it or leave it.

[avs11054]

Well, I finally got my DPMS Tac-20 outfitted, and I took it to the range today to sight it in. I have Burris PERP rings and a Vortex Viper PST 4-16 scope on it. I was shooting Remmington Corelokt 150 gr ammo (I will use this ammo for deer hunting this upcoming year).

I was happy with how it shot. I did not shoot too much with it after sighting it in. After I had it zero'd, I shot one three shot group. It was a 1.5" group at 100 yards. The range was busy, and I got assigned to a 100 yard bench. I was hoping to get assigned to a 200 yard bench, but it did not happen, so I could not shoot any further.

I think this gun is going to be a lethal deer gun. Hopefully I will be filling the fridge this fall with it.