Quantcast
Losing patience with my Hornady LnL giving me high primers - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Ammunition, Gear, and Firearm Help > Handloading and Reloading

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 14, 2014, 04:11 PM   #1
Rmeju
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 4, 2008
Posts: 377
Losing patience with my Hornady LnL giving me high primers

Hi all,

I reload several different calibers on my LnL, both pistol and rifle, but these days I'm mostly using the large primer punch for the ammo that I've been making. Getting high primers has been an extremely frustrating problem for me and, frankly, I'm getting tired of it. For the record, I like my Hornady press and other Hornady products, and I would greatly prefer fixing my problem than switching to Dillon or some other brand. They all have problems too, and this is something I'd prefer to fix rather than replace.

I know high primers are a relatively common "red press" problem, as I have done searches on this board and several others, and many have had similar complaints. I've called Hornady twice about this issue, which has been extremely frustrating because, to hear it from them you'd think the problem was in my head, that it's impossible for their press not to work correctly, or that it's my components' fault (rather than the press). As far as I'm concerned, it's my press's job to work with my components, not the other way around. And, needless to say, the problem is not in my head.

My current band-aid for the high primer problem is putting a nickel under the primer punch. There are several variants of this "fix," such us putting a shim under the punch, etc. This definitely helps, but it's not enough. I still need to rotate the brass several times and press the punch in each time to get the primer just barely flush. This is totally unacceptable, although it may indicate that my primers are getting seated slightly crooked... anyone know why that might be?

Others seem to have sanded down the nut on the punch by a few thousandths, but there's a stop on my actual punch that prevents it from going any deeper than flush with the nut, so even if I grind the nut down, I don't think that will work unless I also drill the countersink in the bore of the nut a few thousandths as well, so the stop on the punch gets a few more thousandths of travel before contact.

Has anybody tried this with any success?

Has anybody tried other fixes with any success?

To be clear, the problem is not that my shellplates aren't on tight enough, which can also be a high primer culprit, but that's not the case here. My punch is also screwed in tight.

Another problem might be the timing, but the shellplate looks centered over the punch when it gets to the priming station (at least as best as I can tell). I've tried to adjust the timing, but I admit that I don't fully understand timing adjustments well enough to say that I've definitively exhausted the potential for a timing fix.

Anyone else have this high primer problem and get it fixed? If so, what worked for you? Thanks in advance for any input!

Last edited by Rmeju; September 14, 2014 at 04:18 PM.
Rmeju is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 04:12 PM   #2
jwrowland77
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 8, 2012
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 1,595
Losing patience with my Hornady LnL giving me high primers

Only time I've ever had this happen, it was from shell plate not being tight enough per the Bill Morgan videos on You Tube. Tightened it up and it worked.

Following to see what else it could be.

Last edited by jwrowland77; September 14, 2014 at 04:26 PM.
jwrowland77 is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 05:09 PM   #3
Walkalong
Moderator
 
 
Join Date: November 20, 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 35,916
I cured priming woes (poor indexing with the original style shell plates) on my old Projector with a hand primer. I have never gone back.

That said, I am sure folks here have the cure.
__________________
Do you ever wonder why nobody ever robs the bag man for the mob? No, you don't.

"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered another round. Author unknown.
Walkalong is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 05:14 PM   #4
tightgroup tiger
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Peidmont/Triad, NC
Posts: 1,610
Quote:
Another problem might be the timing, but the shellplate looks centered over the punch when it gets to the priming station (at least as best as I can tell). I've tried to adjust the timing, but I admit that I don't fully understand timing adjustments well enough to say that I've definitively exhausted the potential for a timing fix
I adjusted my timing so it let's the shell plate be controlled by clicking into the ball and detent of the plate falling into holes in the carrier plate and not driving it past that point. Then, all my shell plates act the same. If I would end up with one plate that doesn't work this way, then it is the shell plate.

The actual timing of the press shouldn't be so far forward that it interferes with the ball and detent holes that are machined into the carrier assy from stopping the plate out of position. That ball and detent is in the plate itself and is what ultimately places the shell plate in position to prime when the balls drop into the holes of the carrier assy. If all your other plates are working correctly then the ball and spring placement in that plate has to be what causing the problem.

I have around 8000-9000 rounds through my lnl-ap and am waiting for the infamous DIMPLE to start causing me problems. About 10,000 rounds seems to be when it starts causing problems from the complaints I've read.

If you are below this point, and having this problem across the board with all your plates, then the actual press timing is off. If it is just one plate causing it then the plate is the problem. I load small and large primers on mine all the time and haven't had this problem yet. I'm wondering about this, is it limited to only one caliber or is it across the board with all your shellplates?
tightgroup tiger is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 05:20 PM   #5
moonman16
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 197
Do you have a SPLIT LOCKWASHER on top of the FLATWASHER for the shellplate bolt? Next if you do DO NOT COMPLETELY TIGHTEN IT DOWN, JUST MOSTLY.

Do your Primer Rams have an UNDERCUT in their middle? (older style).

Hornady now has a NEW STYLE Ram that is the same diameter the whole stem, this helps keep the trash/debris out.

You need to watch the Bill Morgan Video concerning the PRIMER SYSTEM adjustments.

He has a whole series on the Hornady LNL-AP press entitled,

HORNADY LNL-AP PRESS SET-UP HINTS AND TRICKS. (Google for it)

The video series is well worth your time invested in watching them.

Good Luck!
moonman16 is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 05:26 PM   #6
Rmeju
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 4, 2008
Posts: 377
@TitegroupTiger: I'm probably on ~20,000 rounds on this press. I definitely have the dimple (which I've been covering with a nickel, which is helping but not curing the problem). I've been having problems with .45acp, 10mm, .308, and 7mm Rem Mag, which are all large primer punch. The latest problems have been with 7mm, which I was having serious trouble with today. I have not loaded AK, 30-06 or .223 since noticing this problem. These calibers may or may not have the issue described above, I just haven't tested yet.
Rmeju is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 05:52 PM   #7
Iron Sight
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 16, 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 379
Very shortly after encountering the problem I began using a hand held primer device.
Iron Sight is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 05:56 PM   #8
Blue68f100
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 25, 2011
Location: Plano, Tx
Posts: 1,882
The fix for the dimple is to put a steel plug for it to hit. I D&T for set screw on mine with the center hitting the center hex. No distortion in the set screw.

Also the technique you use to set the primers. It need to be one quick motion. Going slow does not work. Take more force to start it moving if not all the way before it sets.

I have not had any problems in 5+ years since I did the mod to the casting. And started using a quick solid push. You can not set them to deep so don't be shy about it.

Last edited by Blue68f100; September 14, 2014 at 06:13 PM.
Blue68f100 is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 06:12 PM   #9
rskent
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 28, 2006
Location: The land of blue sky and sunshine
Posts: 649
I feel your pain brother. It sounds like Hornady made your press on the same day it made mine. After several calls and a trip back to Hornady I ended up using Walkalong's solution. It's not as fast, but it is very reliable.
On my press it seems like the ram itself is torquing counterclockwise just as the primer is pressing into the case. I am not sure that this is the problem or not. I'm still working on it. Everything else seems to line up OK.

Anyway if you get any ideas lit us know.
__________________
How can you not love a G19?
Steve
rskent is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 06:22 PM   #10
tightgroup tiger
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Peidmont/Triad, NC
Posts: 1,610
Quote:
@TitegroupTiger: I'm probably on ~20,000 rounds on this press. I definitely have the dimple (which I've been covering with a nickel, which is helping but not curing the problem). I've been having problems with .45acp, 10mm, .308, and 7mm Rem Mag, which are all large primer punch. The latest problems have been with 7mm, which I was having serious trouble with today. I have not loaded AK, 30-06 or .223 since noticing this problem. These calibers may or may not have the issue described above, I just haven't tested yet.
A nickel is so thick I can't believe it is not stopping the problem if it is the dimple causing it unless it's so thick that it's stopping you from truly bottoming out your press. Try a Dime instead.
I am now also wondering about the timing of your shell plate. Do you see the plate snap into place on it's own when you bottom out your stroke or does it look like the plate snaps in then wiggles again after snapping in place as the handle bottoms out?
tightgroup tiger is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 06:24 PM   #11
jwrowland77
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 8, 2012
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 1,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by tightgroup tiger View Post
A nickel is so thick I can't believe it is not stopping the problem if it is the dimple causing it.

I am now wondering about the timing of your shell plate. Do you see the plate snap into place on it's own when you bottom out your stroke or does it look like the plate snaps in then wiggles again after snapping in place as the handle bottoms out?

That's why my original thought was the plate was/is a tad loose, so when priming, the shell plate comes up just enough to keep the priming from fully seating. Lock washer on top of other flat washer?
jwrowland77 is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 06:28 PM   #12
627PCFan
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 18, 2007
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 1,733
I don't use a red press but I do have extensive experience with one now thanks to a buddy of mine. After 8 months of screwing with it and two trips back its out r of my basement and rightfully in his house. The primer station was always troublesome. At one point I went to hand priming which was my preferred method and sped up things when you removed down time for primer issues.

Later on I used it for brass processing. One or two steps at a time.

I'm back to the rock chucker and happy as could be. Just less headaches
__________________
Anything less than an N-Frame just doesnt feel right....
627PCFan is online now  
Old September 14, 2014, 06:42 PM   #13
tightgroup tiger
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Peidmont/Triad, NC
Posts: 1,610
Quote:
That's why my original thought was the plate was/is a tad loose, so when priming, the shell plate comes up just enough to keep the priming from fully seating. Lock washer on top of other flat washer?
I agree with that also. I am assuming he already checked that. The problem with my theory of timing is that if the timing was out far enough to cause him problems he would be crunching primers once in a while. He hasn't said that yet.

Quote:
Also the technique you use to set the primers. It need to be one quick motion. Going slow does not work. Take more force to start it moving if not all the way before it sets.
This is also a major concern and very true. I'm not kind to my press while seating primers. It's big and heavy, it can take it. Punch those puppy's in there. Not all primer pockets are the same from lot to lot, let alone using mixed brass. There's a lot of variances there and the dimple could be exasperating the issue if your timing is right.
tightgroup tiger is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 06:48 PM   #14
jwrowland77
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 8, 2012
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 1,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by tightgroup tiger View Post
I agree with that also. I am assuming he already checked that. The problem with my theory of timing is that if the timing was out far enough to cause him problems he would be crunching primers once in a while.

Yeah, I agree, that if timing was off, there'd be a lot more grumbling and issues just getting the primer in the pocket.
jwrowland77 is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 07:03 PM   #15
tightgroup tiger
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Peidmont/Triad, NC
Posts: 1,610
I did have one problem with my primer assy in the 8-9k rounds I've loaded on it. I had to take the primer punch assy out of the press, take it apart and clean it. Something was rattling around between the punch assy and where it tops out at that was causing me some kind of problem and taking it out, apart, and cleaning it cure it. It was causing me high primers and a host of other problems with the function of the press.

Screw the punch assy out and take it apart to see if anything is in there that's limiting it's travel. It's been so long ago that I had almost forgot. I think my problem was a piece of brass off a primer worked it's way down in there. I don't think priming off the press is the answer after you already primed 20k shells with it successfully. It may need the setscrew put in it to fix the dimple but that to me is not a good enough reason to abandon hope all together.
tightgroup tiger is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 07:34 PM   #16
mmorris
Member
 
 
Join Date: July 24, 2008
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 97
What do you guys think about primer pocket uniforming as a solution to primer seating issues like these discussed in this thread?

I have not had any high primers on my LNL since I started uniforming primer pockets.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Primer seating.jpg (45.1 KB, 33 views)
__________________
A human being has a natural desire to have more of a good thing than he needs.
- Mark Twain
mmorris is offline  
Old September 14, 2014, 07:43 PM   #17
tightgroup tiger
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Peidmont/Triad, NC
Posts: 1,610
Quote:
What do you guys think about primer pocket uniforming as a solution to primer seating issues like these?
I would say it's a good idea if it were limited to just rifle brass. I've never had to uniform a pistol or revolver case in my 42 years of reloading.

I'm thinking because it does seem to be limited to large rifle and pistol primers both, that there has to be something stuck in his large pistol primer assy that is causing his punch to not go up far enough to get the tougher to seat primers.

Take the assy out, take it apart and clean it really good.
tightgroup tiger is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 12:58 AM   #18
moonman16
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 197
I believe there is a DETAILED INSTRUCTION over at the AR-15 forum.

It concerns the HUB underneath the SUBPLATE being machined to a TOO SHORT

length and how to correct it WITH A SHIM PACK.

The explanation has Photos.

The Hub moves up and down, but the final clearance between it and the shellplate

should be around .004 I believe, some are a BUNCH MORE.
moonman16 is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 01:36 AM   #19
fiftybmg
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 26, 2011
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmorris View Post
What do you guys think about primer pocket uniforming as a solution to primer seating issues like these discussed in this thread?

I have not had any high primers on my LNL since I started uniforming primer pockets.
The problem is not with the brass, it's with the press. The primer punch wears a hole in the press body.
fiftybmg is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 01:39 AM   #20
fiftybmg
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 26, 2011
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 178
A nickle is a bit thick to put under the primer punch.

You need a steel washer that is 1mm or 1.5mm thick.

If it's thicker, it interferes with shellplate rotation while there is a primer on the primer slide.
fiftybmg is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 10:24 AM   #21
RealGun
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 21, 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 5,338
Quote:
The problem is not with the brass, it's with the press. The primer punch wears a hole in the press body.
That is commonly cited, but Hornady says the mark firms up. I believe the real problem is the subplate height and agree with moonman16's advice re the fix. Using washers, you raise the hub to meet the shell plate. I have my washer set, ordered off Amazon, and will install them in the next caliber changeover. For now, my primers are fine, given my particular 38/357 shellplate...they do vary, it seems.
__________________
RealGun
---------------
RealGun is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 10:28 AM   #22
moonman16
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 197
PLEASE GOOGLE

'How to tune a Hornady lnl press"

That should lead you to A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF HOW TO

FIX YOUR HIGH PRIMER ISSUES.

The link should take you to an AR-15 forum post WITH COMPLETE DETAILS AND PHOTOS.

It explains how to measure and FIX an out of spec hub/subplate issue.

Fixed the issue for many LNL-AP presses with this issue.

THE SHIM PACK FOR THE FIX IS INEXPENSIVE and product shim pack #'s are listed.

A quick check with FEELER GAUGES can be made to see if this is your possible problem with high primers.
moonman16 is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 02:00 PM   #23
Otto
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 14, 2007
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 1,298
Been there done that and have tried all the so-called fixes.
I even returned the press back to the factory TWICE. Hornady said the problem was fouled primer pockets (which is ridiculous considering it's once fired brass).

What I've found is that not all primer pockets are punched deep enough.
To make the primer seat flush in a shallow pocket requires a 'crush fit'.
My LNL simply doesn't have enough mechanical advantage to force fit a primer into a shallow pocket. My Dillon suffers from this as well but to a lesser degree.

The problem was never resolved but there are a couple of workarounds.....

1. Uniforming the primer pockets with a Sinclair carbide uniformer cuts the pocket to the correct depth. The primers are then easily seated to the bottom of the pocket without any deformation. Once done, you never have to uniform that piece of brass again.
Cons: It's an added step and a different uniformer is required for each sm, lg and lg rifle primer pocket.

2. Prime the cases off-press using a hand primer.
This is my preferred method. When I sit down to assemble a thousand rounds it's really nice not to have to deal with flipping primers, filling tubes and clearing jams.
Cons: Hand priming creates extra steps in the process and slows down the overall output rates.

I presume that alot of people churn out ammo having high primers without ever realizing it.
Otto is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 03:09 PM   #24
rskent
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 28, 2006
Location: The land of blue sky and sunshine
Posts: 649
Quote:
Been there done that and have tried all the so-called fixes.
I have shimmed the hub on mine as well. It may fix some press's. Unfortunately not mine.
Hornady also glued a steel disk to cover the dreaded dimple. I'm hoping for a new idea.
Any help would appreciated.
__________________
How can you not love a G19?
Steve
rskent is offline  
Old September 15, 2014, 03:10 PM   #25
buck460XVR
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 6, 2007
Posts: 4,289
Seriously, I would pressure Hornady as much as possible for some kind of replacement or fix. If not, I'd go the hand-held primer route. I really like using my handheld as opposed to a press mounted priming system.
__________________
Guns are like Harleys and women.....you can never have too many.


Theiyr're...........take that Grammar Nazis!
buck460XVR is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.