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Old September 23, 2014, 11:26 AM   #1
sigsmoker
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.458 lead hollowpoint 325 gr HP for 45-70

I happen to have a lot of these hollow point .458 diameter cast bullets that weigh 325 grains. These I have weighed.
I have round nose too that are probably 400 gr. I have not weighed those.
I have shot the same bullets with orange sabots out of my muzzleloader but I am thinking the diameter and weight should work with my 45-70.
I wonder what would be a good primer and powder for reloading 45-70 for my marlin lever guide gun.
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Old September 23, 2014, 12:01 PM   #2
blarby
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Quote:
I have shot the same bullets with orange sabots out of my muzzleloader but I am thinking the diameter and weight should work with my 45-70.
Are the bullets lubed ? Usually bullets in Sabots are not. Not sure if these came in sabots, or you just put them in ? They will need to be lubed if not. If need be, I can machine lube them for you when I get back from Detroit- we'll just need to arrange shipping.

As to powder ? 4198 works great for 45-70, as do a litany of other powders according to my lyman cast bullet handbook. Whatcha got ?

If you don't have any, I'd go with 4198- arguably the easiest to find of the lot. You will simply need standard large rifle primers for most loads using cast bullets, although some folks like a magnum rifle primer for the larger loads.
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Last edited by blarby; September 23, 2014 at 12:10 PM.
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Old September 23, 2014, 06:09 PM   #3
sigsmoker
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Sorry for the confusion.
I got a lot of lead at an auction one time and these were in the lot. These already have lube in the grooves, I bought the orange plastic sabots to make them .50 caliber and using them for the 45-70 is an afterthought.
I thought, why the heck not? They are in the range of weight of other 45-70 bullets and they measure .458 which is also the same diameter. You are speaking of IMR4198 or Hodgen4198 and standard large rifle primers, right?
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Old September 23, 2014, 06:15 PM   #4
Asherdan
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.458 might work OK but a .459 or .460 would be my preference in an 1895G.

H4198 or Rx7 are great powders if you want to launch them at modern lever action pressures and speeds.

But a plain based three lube ring lead bullet that might be a hair undersized I 'd be tempted to launch at Trapdoor Pressures to test them out.

Accurate 5744 would be fun for that I'd think. Here's a link to an old post of mine with a data sheet for you.

(or you could go real simple and test them out with a LR primer over 12 grains of Unique [source])
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Old September 23, 2014, 07:28 PM   #5
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Yep, .458 would be a maybe. You would need to slug the bore to see what size to use for starters. Usually .002 or .003 over bore diameter will work.
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Old September 25, 2014, 02:37 PM   #6
sigsmoker
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I also have these .390 gr round nose that are also .458 diameter.
Both appear to have a beeswax lube in the grooves.
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Old September 25, 2014, 06:38 PM   #7
Asherdan
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I'm gonna stick by my earlier answer. For the 390g RN you can use the 405g PB data from Accurate up there in my link.

(or kick it with 12g of Unique and a LR primer)

(Alliant 2400 is great for this kind of stuff as well. Attached is the data from the Alliant 1996 manual for a 385g cast bullet to work with.)
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Old September 25, 2014, 11:10 PM   #8
sigsmoker
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Thanks Asherdan, I think if I can find the Unique, I will use it since I have some experience with that in 45 LC. I have a lot of 45 LC to load so I'll make some 45-70 up with 12 grains of unique and that should give them a whirl.

Don't go thinking I am gonna try these bullets in my 45 LC now, I have 255 RNFP for those and will load 8.3 grains unique in those.

Last edited by sigsmoker; September 25, 2014 at 11:22 PM.
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Old September 25, 2014, 11:29 PM   #9
Don McDowell
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Powder would include 2f black, aa 5744, sr4759,4227, 4198, 3031
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Old September 26, 2014, 12:31 AM   #10
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I used nothing but IMR or H4198 in my 45-70 ammo for years until I tried AA5744. Now I use nothing but AA5744 because it's extremely accurate for me in both a Trapdoor rifle and Marlin levergun.

I have used Unique, 2400, IMR4198, H4198, H4895, IMR3031, AA5744, Trail Boss and Pyrodex and all produce accurate ammo for the most part. Currently AA5744 is my choice in the 45-70.
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Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM   #11
sigsmoker
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Regarding these 325 gr .458 lead rnhp as 45-70 bullets
(seen as attachment in post 1)

I ended up going to the gun shop and picking up a lb of Hodgen Benchmark. It's all they had that I could use on hand.

According to the data these are the loads.

Hodgen Benchmark Powder

Starting load for 300 gr LFP is 54 gr Max 58 COL 2.465 CCI 200 LR primers
Starting load for 385 gr LFP is 50 gr Max 53 COL 2.505 CCI 200 LR primers
Starting load for 405 gr LFP is 47 gr Max 50 COL 2.540 CCI 200 LR primers

I found this info for trapdoor model 45-70 rifles. No lever action info but I have a Marlin Guide Gun.

I am thinking that I can load these 325 gr hollow point bullets to something like this

51 to 53 gr
Hodgen Benchmark Powder
CCI 200 LR primers
COL 2.540
Trim Length: 2.100

How does this sound to you guys? Thanks!

Last edited by sigsmoker; Yesterday at 10:30 PM.
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