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Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM   #1
12Pump
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Need advice on which AR to get (between two)

I noticed that a local gun shop here has a Smith & Wesson MP15 Sport 2, which they are selling for $632, while a local Scheels store has the DPMS Oracle for only $600. Similar prices, with the DPMS being a bit lower, but without sites. I've also seen the S&W on gunbuyer.com for $569, although that's not a local store: http://www.gunbuyer.com/p-58570-smit...301-10202.aspx

Here are the links to the main pages of the 2 guns:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

http://www.dpmsinc.com/556-ORACLE_ep_135-1.html

So, between these two, which do you think is better?
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Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM   #2
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I would get the S&W MP15 Sport 2 any day over the Oracle. The S&W MP15 Sport (the first model) has been a great entry level AR and has quite a following. I have an S&W MP15 Tactical and its a really nice AR for the cost. The S&W name alone would push me over to it over DPMS. Your resale value will be better if you so choose. But I just plain think that S&W builds better firearms than DPMS but that is merely my thoughts, not based on any factual evidence. So take it for what you will.

One key difference is that the S&W is a complete rifle where the DPMS is missing both front and rear sights. So there is at least an additional ~$80.
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Old Yesterday, 03:24 PM   #3
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I have heard better reviews on the Smith & Wesson, plus it comes with a folding rear sight, worth the price difference. I believe I would trust Smith & Wesson's CS a lot further that DPMS, also. Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with either rifle, I just have a lot of free time to look at gun/parts reviews, and did so when building my AR's.
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Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM   #4
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Thanks guys! But here's something else I just discovered. The local shop now has the DPMS Oracle for $539.76, as opposed to the $600 at Scheels. Would that make a difference in the value over the S&W?
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Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
The local shop now has the DPMS Oracle for $539.76, as opposed to the $600 at Scheels. Would that make a difference in the value over the S&W?
You still need sights, so add at least $100 to that for any sights worth having. That silly low rail gas block will require an expensive metal front sight.

Between the two, Sport hands down. Then again, I'd go with a PSA rifle over either of those for the price. 4140 barrels are pretty much bottom of the barrel (pun intended) in the AR world. Will it make a difference to you? Only you can answer that.
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Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM   #6
hanno
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S&W M&P15 Sport II.

Just bought one for $559 and it is a nice rifle - well built and very accurate.

I have shot & owned S&W revolvers for over 45 years and if you ever need service, S&W will take care of you. They are top notch. That customer service is why I went with the Sport II.
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #7
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I'd pay more money for the M&P-15 Sport II over the DPMS. I don't own either but did a build using a S&W M&P-15 stripped lower and it's a cut above the DPMS stuff I've seen. The Sports I've handled and shot are great rifles, and you rarely hear complaints from owners. The Colt Expanse is well worth a look, too, I'm happy with mine but you get a bit more with the Sport.
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Old Yesterday, 07:13 PM   #8
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I have experience with both the Smith and Wesson MP15 and the DPMS Oracle. For what its worth I would go with the Smith and Wesson.
I have seen many problems with the Oracle.
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Old Yesterday, 07:53 PM   #9
Sebastian the Ibis
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S&W. However, I echo the PSA recommnendation above. You can put together a better rifle for less $$. Buy a $400 kit ($20 shipping), stripped lower of your choice localy $50, and a rear sight $50 you are gtg.

Putting an AR together is child's play, but if you are worried about it just order a complete lower and upper.
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Old Yesterday, 08:01 PM   #10
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Yup, $550 at PSA will get you a rifle one notch above the S&W. All you have to do is pin the 2 halves together and you are running.
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM   #11
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If I were in the market for an entry level AR I would definitely go with the S&W MP15 Sport2 over the DPMS Oracle. Better build quality and first rate customer service with S&W would make for the deciding factors.
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Old Yesterday, 08:24 PM   #12
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I would pick the Sport 2 I have the first Sport its been a good rifle no complaints at all
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Old Yesterday, 11:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootstraight57 View Post
I have experience with both the Smith and Wesson MP15 and the DPMS Oracle. For what its worth I would go with the Smith and Wesson.
I have seen many problems with the Oracle.
I appreciate your personal experience! I guess I'd be pretty silly to not go with the S&W then. Everyone seems to think it's superior to the DPMS. I just wish the S&W didn't cost so much more at this gun shop than pretty much anywhere else. $632 while other people are getting it for $559.

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Old Yesterday, 11:30 PM   #14
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S&W over the DPMS any day.

I would take the S&W over a PSA as well. PSA quality is hit or miss same with their customer service. Resale on Smith will be 10 times better.

I would honestly eat rice and beans for a month, save some more $$$, and grab a BCM for a few hundred more.

Buy once, cry once.
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Old Yesterday, 11:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
You still need sights, so add at least $100 to that for any sights worth having. That silly low rail gas block will require an expensive metal front sight.

Between the two, Sport hands down. Then again, I'd go with a PSA rifle over either of those for the price. 4140 barrels are pretty much bottom of the barrel (pun intended) in the AR world. Will it make a difference to you? Only you can answer that.
I'm going to give you my honest opinion: neither. DPMS has always had spotty quality, and the S&W has a fixed front sight post, which requires an optics riser to clear. I also saw an M&P 15 Sport acting up at the range a couple of weeks ago. Trigger problems.

This is what I have, and let me tell you, the dang thing just RUNS. It's also cheaper than either of them, and has a 1:7" twist rate barrel. http://www.radicalfirearms.com/produ...6fgs-m4556.htm. AIM Surplus occasionally has them in stock as the Radical Firearms FGS-12, for $500.

Their customer service seems to be responsive as well. I didn't have a problem, but I contacted them to ask whether or not they use a proprietary barrel nut (they do not), and they responded within a few hours. They also told me the rifle has a lifetime warranty as long as it has its original parts.

Note: the actual gun is NOT shiny. It's matte black. For some reason they photographed it poorly.
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I think I have a problem. . .
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Old Today, 12:00 AM   #16
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Get the smith
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Old Today, 12:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WardenWolf View Post
I'm going to give you my honest opinion: neither. DPMS has always had spotty quality, and the S&W has a fixed front sight post, which requires an optics riser to clear. I also saw an M&P 15 Sport acting up at the range a couple of weeks ago. Trigger problems.
I'll echo the spotty QC from DPMS at times. I've shot several Smith AR's and have never had the slightest hiccups, including one of my own nearing 3K rounds. Trigger problems can stem from many a things in AR's and are pretty easy to troubleshoot.

However if irons are what OP intends on shooting the fixed front post is pretty rigid to say the least. By far the most reliable I have experienced. Also any magnification past 3 power will see "through" the front sight and you won't even be able to tell its there. No need for a riser or any other exotic mount.

OP I say from experience get the Smith. If irons are your game it's a reliable solid no frills carbine. If you intend to use optics then be aware you will need at least 3X magnification due to the front sight post. Good luck and happy shooting
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Old Today, 01:34 AM   #18
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Admiring my S&W Sport II as I write this. A local GS had them on sale for under $600 so, I bought one.

Took it to an outdoor range and it is an accurate gun. Handled two hundred rounds of .223 and 5.56 using both M2 and M3 PMags without a hitch.

Fun to shoot.

I passed on the less expensive DPMS they had.
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Old Today, 01:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Yup, $550 at PSA will get you a rifle one notch above the S&W. All you have to do is pin the 2 halves together and you are running.
Not disagreeing, just curious. Why is the PSA better?
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Old Today, 01:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Not disagreeing, just curious. Why is the PSA better?
Depending on the upper purchased, it would have a 4150 or 416R barrel. It would also have a mid length gas system, longer sight radius and a HPT/MPI tested bolt. The lower would also have full Magpul furniture. This is just considering what they have on sale at the moment.
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Old Today, 01:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MaterDei View Post
Not disagreeing, just curious. Why is the PSA better?
A PSA will be better than a Sport II if you pay attention to and understand specs, are patient and watch for sales. And if you're able to find what you want in stock. Someone who knows exactly what he wants can build a great PSA, configured the way he wants for a great price. However, a lazy, impatient person who doesn't understand the specs can cobble together a Frankenstein.
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Old Today, 02:12 AM   #22
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Buy the cheapest you can get and build off it. AR's are the hot rods of guns. Build it the way you want it. But I would take the S&W over the Orcle. If you got into DPMS higher line they have some decent firearms, but at that point you could move on to Daniel Defense, LMT, ect. For a few more dollars look at the colt I believe its a 6920. You can find them around the $8-900 range.
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Old Today, 07:48 AM   #23
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buddy has one of the cheap smiths and weve both owned dmps sporticals which are about the same as an oracle. All three guns have been good guns. Sure there not a 1200 dollar colt but to be honest we both have colts and these cheap guns are more accurate then either of our colts. My sportical will shoot moa with handloads that were devolped for it and 1.5 inch at a 100 with about any handload even with ball ammo. My sportical proabably has 10k round count and id bet my buddys has substantialy more. Only thing ive done to mine is replace the plunger that holds the buffer in, the little tip broke off (but ive seen that on higher priced guns) at the same time I put a new buffer spring in it. Other then that its just the way it came out of the box. You are going to get a lot of negative answers here. Lots of self appointed ar15 experts that stick there nose up at cheaper guns. Truth be told these cheap guns run just fine and shoot great and are an excellent value. Your never going to tell me that colt or stag I paid twice as much for are twice the guns. Maybe you need those higher dollar bolts carrier groups or chrome barrels ect if your in combat everyday but the most dangerous thing most people shoot are full soda cans. I don't need a nascar car to drive to work and I don't need a novesky ar15 to shoot beer cans.
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Old Today, 08:50 AM   #24
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Here's another possibility, Sportsman's Guide is selling complete Anderson carbines on Slickguns.com for $475 + $5 shipping.

https://www.slickguns.com/product/an...75-buyers-club
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Old Today, 09:03 AM   #25
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Between the two, get the Smith, but the Radical Firearms rifle is better than either if you plan to use optics, and has a free-floated handguard and better twist rate to boot.

The 1:9" twist rate on those guns won't be able to stabilize the heavier .223 and 5.56 bullets. Anything above 68 grains and you're likely to start losing accuracy, up to the point where it starts keyholing. The Smith is a perfectly sound rifle for what it is, but keep in mind that both it and the DPMS rifle are "crippled" so that they have a very limited upgrade path without spending way too much money.
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I think I have a problem. . .
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