NFA Trust original mistakenly sent to the ATF - What to do?

ilsrwy27 · February 10, 2013, 04:14 PM

Long story short: I purchased my first NFA item yesterday from a local in state seller using a revocable NFA trust. We went to a Class III FFL to handle the paperwork and make sure everything was done corectly. It turned out two copies of the trust needed to be done so I handled them the original and somehow was handed a copy back. I did not realize it until putting the papers away today so I now only have a copy of my trust papers in my possession while a copy and the original have been mailed to the ATF.

Any idea how to proceed to get the original back? From what I have read the papers are sent to Atlanta where they cash the checks and then forward the paperwork to W.Virginia. If that is correct would it be better to contact Alanta and have them return the application or wait until this hits the examiner desk? I am really not familiar with the ATF so any suggestions are welcome.

Aaron Baker · February 10, 2013, 04:45 PM

This is not legal advice, but practical advice.

It is possible to have multiple originals of things like contracts, so I see no reason that there couldn't be multiple originals of something like a trust. If you were to sign another "original" copy that was identical to the one sent to the ATF, I don't see there being any problems.

Aaron

jmorris · February 10, 2013, 05:09 PM

I just print another copy, have to change the schedule A every time anyway.

Aaron Baker · February 10, 2013, 05:28 PM

A Schedule A is a schedule, which can be changed at any time. A trust is an important legal document, that, theoretically, once signed, becomes THE trust. The trust doesn't exist independently of the document. It IS the document.

So you should be careful about just printing a new one and signing it with a different date each time. You're technically creating a new trust each time with the same name as another already executed trust.

If you want to understand how trusts work past that, you should ask the attorney who drafted your trust.

Aaron

ilsrwy27 · February 10, 2013, 06:37 PM

I'm not sure I get this right about making another 'original' but to make it identical to the one that was sent in would involve backdating both the signatures of the grantors / trustees and notarization, something I would assume the notary would be less than willing to do.

jmorris · February 10, 2013, 10:25 PM

Say someone listed in your trust passed away, what would you do at that point?

Donut Destroyer · February 10, 2013, 11:16 PM

If it's a matter of getting back an original document that you need, call the NFA Branch in Falling Waters, Virginia and discuss it with them. That would be where the documents are destined anyway. That would at least be the place to start.

GoingQuiet · February 21, 2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilsrwy27

Long story short: I purchased my first NFA item yesterday from a local in state seller using a revocable NFA trust. We went to a Class III FFL to handle the paperwork and make sure everything was done corectly. It turned out two copies of the trust needed to be done so I handled them the original and somehow was handed a copy back. I did not realize it until putting the papers away today so I now only have a copy of my trust papers in my possession while a copy and the original have been mailed to the ATF.

Any idea how to proceed to get the original back? From what I have read the papers are sent to Atlanta where they cash the checks and then forward the paperwork to W.Virginia. If that is correct would it be better to contact Alanta and have them return the application or wait until this hits the examiner desk? I am really not familiar with the ATF so any suggestions are welcome.

1. There is no such thing as a Class III FFL. Why did you go to a dealer? This is a private sale transaction, dealer intervention is not required.

2. Two copies needed to be done? What state requires this?

3. The ATF will destroy the originals once they are done with them.

4. You cannot just "call Atlanta" - Atlanta is the bank that handles the check cashing for ATF.

5. I would call the NFA branch at 304-616-4500 and ask them what to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut Destroyer

If it's a matter of getting back an original document that you need, call the NFA Branch in Falling Waters, Virginia and discuss it with them. That would be where the documents are destined anyway. That would at least be the place to start.

There is no NFA branch in Falling Waters, Virginia.

There is one division of ATF that handles NFA work and they are in Martinsburg, West Virginia.

ilsrwy27 · April 24, 2013, 10:55 AM

Thought I'd give an update on this issue:

After considering the options I thought the best was simply to wait and give time for the paperwork to make its way into the system before calling. I waited about 8 weeks after my check was cashed then called the ATF and talked to the NFA examiner handling my area. He checked his computer and told me my data had been entered in the system but that he had not come around to checking the paperwork and that he would make a copy of the trust and send me the original when he would get to it.

That was two weeks ago so I'm waiting to see what happens next -hopefully it will be an envelope with the original in my mailbox...

Oro · April 24, 2013, 04:43 PM

I would suggest you can be optimistic. I had a similar issue with needing a "favor" from the ATF regarding paperwork about a year ago. The both the ATF lawyer and the clerk I spoke to in WV were helpful and the issue was sorted quickly. The issue could not have been handled better by any measure.

Impureclient · April 25, 2013, 12:37 AM

When I had my trust done, the lawyer made me three copies all exactly the same all signed by me, the lawyer and the notary.
I sent in one copy and kept two for myself. What would make any one of those the "original"?
Is it you had only signed an "original" and then had a xerox copy of that one for the total of two?

February 10, 2013, 04:14 PM	#1
ilsrwy27 Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Posts: 55	NFA Trust original mistakenly sent to the ATF - What to do? Long story short: I purchased my first NFA item yesterday from a local in state seller using a revocable NFA trust. We went to a Class III FFL to handle the paperwork and make sure everything was done corectly. It turned out two copies of the trust needed to be done so I handled them the original and somehow was handed a copy back. I did not realize it until putting the papers away today so I now only have a copy of my trust papers in my possession while a copy and the original have been mailed to the ATF. Any idea how to proceed to get the original back? From what I have read the papers are sent to Atlanta where they cash the checks and then forward the paperwork to W.Virginia. If that is correct would it be better to contact Alanta and have them return the application or wait until this hits the examiner desk? I am really not familiar with the ATF so any suggestions are welcome.

February 10, 2013, 04:45 PM	#2
Aaron Baker Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 314	This is not legal advice, but practical advice. It is possible to have multiple originals of things like contracts, so I see no reason that there couldn't be multiple originals of something like a trust. If you were to sign another "original" copy that was identical to the one sent to the ATF, I don't see there being any problems. Aaron __________________ www.kentuckyguntrustlawyer.com

February 10, 2013, 05:09 PM	#3
jmorris Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Posts: 4,262	I just print another copy, have to change the schedule A every time anyway. __________________ "My right to swing my arm ends at the tip of your nose." Joe S.

February 10, 2013, 05:28 PM	#4
Aaron Baker Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 314	A Schedule A is a schedule, which can be changed at any time. A trust is an important legal document, that, theoretically, once signed, becomes THE trust. The trust doesn't exist independently of the document. It IS the document. So you should be careful about just printing a new one and signing it with a different date each time. You're technically creating a new trust each time with the same name as another already executed trust. If you want to understand how trusts work past that, you should ask the attorney who drafted your trust. Aaron __________________ www.kentuckyguntrustlawyer.com

February 10, 2013, 10:25 PM	#6
jmorris Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Posts: 4,262	Say someone listed in your trust passed away, what would you do at that point? __________________ "My right to swing my arm ends at the tip of your nose." Joe S.

February 10, 2013, 06:37 PM	#5
ilsrwy27 Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Posts: 55	I'm not sure I get this right about making another 'original' but to make it identical to the one that was sent in would involve backdating both the signatures of the grantors / trustees and notarization, something I would assume the notary would be less than willing to do.

February 10, 2013, 11:16 PM	#7
Donut Destroyer Member Join Date: February 10, 2013 Location: Louisiana Posts: 47	If it's a matter of getting back an original document that you need, call the NFA Branch in Falling Waters, Virginia and discuss it with them. That would be where the documents are destined anyway. That would at least be the place to start.

April 24, 2013, 10:55 AM	#9
ilsrwy27 Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Posts: 55	Thought I'd give an update on this issue: After considering the options I thought the best was simply to wait and give time for the paperwork to make its way into the system before calling. I waited about 8 weeks after my check was cashed then called the ATF and talked to the NFA examiner handling my area. He checked his computer and told me my data had been entered in the system but that he had not come around to checking the paperwork and that he would make a copy of the trust and send me the original when he would get to it. That was two weeks ago so I'm waiting to see what happens next -hopefully it will be an envelope with the original in my mailbox...

April 24, 2013, 04:43 PM	#10
Oro Member Join Date: September 22, 2007 Location: WA state Posts: 3,475	I would suggest you can be optimistic. I had a similar issue with needing a "favor" from the ATF regarding paperwork about a year ago. The both the ATF lawyer and the clerk I spoke to in WV were helpful and the issue was sorted quickly. The issue could not have been handled better by any measure.

April 25, 2013, 12:37 AM	#11
Impureclient Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 575	When I had my trust done, the lawyer made me three copies all exactly the same all signed by me, the lawyer and the notary. I sent in one copy and kept two for myself. What would make any one of those the "original"? Is it you had only signed an "original" and then had a xerox copy of that one for the total of two? __________________ "Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." —Former U.S. Attorney General, Janet Reno