Is 6 Shots Really Enough?

[tipoc]

I'm rereading the original post...

My daily carry is a S&W Model 19 blued with a 4" barrel, loaded with 125 grain loads, with a Glock 26 as backup.


I used to never second guess that 6 shots was enough until I started reading other opinions on the internet

Now I'm not so sure. I love my revolver and have shot so many thousands of rounds through it that it feels like an extension of my hand, something that I've never felt with higher capacity semi autos. I am confident that I can make meaningful hits with my 19 in a self defense situation. But what about if there are multiple attackers? What if I miss? What if, what if, what if?That's why I started carrying a G26 as backup, as much as I dislike the plastic little thing. But what if I don't have enough time to draw my backup? The uncertainty is maddening.

Am I just letting this (and the internet) get to my head? Should I not be concerned with my 6 shots?

Seems to me there is a lot of worrying going on here. "The uncertainty is maddening." Is it really? Does thinking of this lead to worry and uncertainty? My suggestion is to not worry about it. Leave the piece at home. Concentrate instead on avoiding situations where where you're gonna face multiple attackers. Avoid it. You have done it so far, so just keep it up. Seems you're good at it.

Carrying a piece should be something you are relaxed with. Not something that causes stress. If you are stressed out you are gonna make mistakes. Mistakes with guns are usually not the kind that result in funny stories.

If you are tied in knots about this. Untie yourself, leave the piece at home or in the vehicle. You got a blade anyway right?

tipoc

[joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by witchhunter

I don't think I will ever be attacked by more than 5 or 6 at once! But, where I live we all carry, I should get some help or offer some if we get attacked by a mob (I hope).

In Cali?

FYI, it is common for gangs to only go out with large groups of "soldiers". Seeing groups of 20-40 gang members at a time is not uncommon. 4 - 10 vehicles. For "special" events they can have hundreds at once. The ability to coordinate them drops as the numbers increase, but still extraordinarily dangerous should you become their target. Think of them like coyotes. Brave in packs, cowards individually.

These packs are out there. Really in every state, mostly urban but not always. Also seen on highways between urban areas. If you haven't seen them, you probably just haven't noticed them.

Pistol on my hip, carbine in the car, work, house, etc. I try not to be too far from a carbine, or for too long.

[seeker_two]

FYI, it is common for gangs to only go out with large groups of "soldiers". Seeing groups of 20-40 gang members at a time is not uncommon. 4 - 10 vehicles. For "special" events they can have hundreds at once. The ability to coordinate them drops as the numbers increase, but still extraordinarily dangerous should you become their target. Think of them like coyotes. Brave in packs, cowards individually.

If this is the problem you're worried about, I can't think of any pistol that would solve it. Better start carrying grenades....

[Droid noob]

Originally Posted by seeker_two

If this is the problem you're worried about, I can't think of any pistol that would solve it. Better start carrying grenades....

Nades aren't legal. Double stack mags are..... For now

[joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by seeker_two

If this is the problem you're worried about, I can't think of any pistol that would solve it. Better start carrying grenades....

If you're not worried about it, then don't act surprised if it happens.

You edited this part out;

"Pistol on my hip, carbine in the car, work, house, etc. I try not to be too far from a carbine, or for too long."

[ApacheCoTodd]

The'd have you thinking that anything other than a high cap, semi auto (or revolver with a combat load of speed loaders) with calibers starting with a 4 and mounting lazers, flashlights, bobs and farkles will get you killed.

I don't see too many examples of running-quick draw-multi re-load gun fights occurring for the average citizenry.

For my part, I've been fortunate enough to have been armed 6 times in my life in occasions where other than critters have presented menace. So far a reload has not been necessary and the lack of encumbrance has been freeing and adds to the first "C" of CCW.

I certainly "get" the fellas loadin' for bear - it's not a bad thing to do, I just wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about being underloaded by comparison.

[joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by ApacheCoTodd

Watch out for the "gunfighter's" advice...

I also have a first aid kit and fire extinguisher. Does that also make me Doctor Phil or Fire Marshal Bill?

The'd have you thinking that anything other than a high cap, semi auto (or revolver with a combat load of speed loaders) with calibers starting with a 4 and mounting lazers, flashlights, bobs and farkles will get you killed.

Who said that? My CCW is usually a 5 shot revolver. Flashlight is in the other pocket. Knife is 2" Dragonfly. Carbine near by though.

I don't see too many examples of running-quick draw-multi re-load gun fights occurring for the average citizenry.

When the bad guy has a long arm, your outgunned from the get go. I have been in the aftermath of several breakdowns in law & order; Hurricanes, earthquakes, riots, gang battles, etc. Things can get ugly, very quickly. Situations where a snub nosed was not enough gun against multiple bad guys with long guns.

[Youngster]

I find this message to be a little misleading.

If you carry a revolver...PRACTICE reloading with a speedloader!

I carry both auto's and revolvers and the difference in reload time for me is maybe 1.5 seconds with a revolver.

I always hear how "slow" revolvers are to reload, It's all about muscle-memory. Just keep practicing.

It'll never be as fast or fumble free though, especially under a big andrenal dump or if you're in some awkward position.

[SharpsDressedMan]

There was a time, and a place, when the "fight your way to your rifle (carbine)" was a reality for me, much like it might have been 150 year ago for a man on horseback in the Rockies. I was a cop in the NW of Colorado in the early 1980's. We most often worked alone, and gave backup to the county deputy, wildlife officer, and state patrolman that might be in need within 20 miles of town. I kept a Remington .308 scout type rifle in the cruiser, and often thought that, depending on the problem, I'd much rather have it in my hand, as distances could go to hundreds of yards in a hurry, if someone decided to take a shot at me or any of the other police in the area. Our town was about 2000-3000 population, and then there was wide open spaces, with the next nearby town 17 miles away. A 19th century cowboy might be lucky to make it to his rifle scabbard if someone decided to attack him on the trail after he stepped away from his horse or wagon. It really isn't that much different now, except we have have forgotten that a rifle can be handy to have nearby. If a fight is truly at hand, a rifle, or shotgun, might be WAY better than handgun. If possible, I'd like to have one nearby, even if I can't carry it or must keep it out of sight for social reasons.

[Jhass]

Six is enough until its not honestly.

Higher calibers require less shots, if ur accurate.

[jad0110]

Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker_two
If this is the problem you're worried about, I can't think of any pistol that would solve it. Better start carrying grenades....

If you're not worried about it, then don't act surprised if it happens.

"It" in this example being jumped by 20 to 40 gang members in multiple vehicles. Other than being aware of one's surroundings to avoid trouble and not associating yourself with people of questionable intent/morals, I'm not sure how you could ever survive something like that, or how you even begin to prepare for it. Unless you primary vehicle is an M4 Sherman, 99% of us would be finished if stuck in a situation like that.

[oldbear]

Am I just letting this (and the internet) get to my head? Should I not be concerned with my 6 shots?

Yes. No need to worry, 99 times out of 100 6 rounds will be more than enough, and the 100th time 60 rounds would not be enough ammo.

If you ever have to stop multiple unarmed attackers, by the time you shoot one or two the rest will looking for the fastest way to get FAR away from you. If you have to face multiple armed attackers, by the time you shoot one or two the others will have been able to kill you.

[tomrkba]

I subscribe to the "Aimed Fire/Point Shooting" school and still carry 46 rounds if I'm using 9x19mm or 25 rounds if I'm using 45 ACP. I go with 20-32 for revolvers.

The most important aspect of self-defense is to get training. Learn what you don't know and push the limits of your skill. Know various related skills such as how to manage encounters with law enforcement, awareness, pre-attack indicators, flashlight handling, and a wide variety of gun, knife and hand fighting skills. Make sure to take a "0-5 feet" course since the content is very, very different from the Gunsite 250 style courses. You are short changing yourself if you don't have all these skills. If you do your training, then the odds of success in and out of court increase.

[joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by jad0110

"It" in this example being jumped by 20 to 40 gang members in multiple vehicles. Other than being aware of one's surroundings to avoid trouble and not associating yourself with people of questionable intent/morals, I'm not sure how you could ever survive something like that, or how you even begin to prepare for it. Unless you primary vehicle is an M4 Sherman, 99% of us would be finished if stuck in a situation like that.

I guess you guys are unaware that there is a lot of drug and gang activity pretty much everywhere. This is how they travel to protect themselves and their contraband. Usually from other criminals and to make it harder for LEO to get them.
If you drive on highways in urban or even rural areas then you could encounter these people. All types and colors. Some are laughable wannabe's armed with 2 broken toys and less IQ than change in your pocket, all the way to seasoned gangsters with military backgrounds.
It can happen after a major natural or man made event when people with nothing to lose get desperate, in large numbers. Some with long arms (after Katrina, I saw people pointing shotguns at each other for the privilege of paying $40 for a bag of ice).
I already told you how you can prepare for it. Have a gun on you,a carbine near by and a plan not to be a victim. Much better off than just a handgun and not knowing things can get that bad. Which is the point of this thread.

[Onward Allusion]

LouisianaGunner12
Is 6 Shots Really Enough?
<SNIP>Am I just letting this (and the internet) get to my head? Should I not be concerned with my 6 shots?

It ain't "mall-ninja" to want more than 6.

There is a lot of truth to the 6-shots ain't enough school of thought. One doesn't necessarily have to do a spray and pray to go through more than 6 rounds and still be in need of more.

Sure ONE shot might be all you need to stop an attack with ONE assailant, however, what if there were 2 or 3 BG's? Never happen, eh? What about being loaded with adrenaline and your heart going about 120-140? What if you're moving? What will be your hit-rate? 10%? 20%? 30%?

Ok, got you thinking, eh? BTW, what's the one shot percentage for your cartridge?

Try some shooting on the move drills at a *stationary* target. How about a "moving" (multiple targets along a path to simulate) target? What's your hit-rate?

Of course, this is coming from a guy who's EDC is a P32 with a whopping total of eight 32ACP rounds. For HD however, my nightstand gun has 15+1 and a few 20 rounders.

[Old Dog]

Is 6 Shots Really Enough?

Yes.

[LouisianaGunner12]

Seems to me there is a lot of worrying going on here. "The uncertainty is maddening." Is it really? Does thinking of this lead to worry and uncertainty? My suggestion is to not worry about it. Leave the piece at home. Concentrate instead on avoiding situations where where you're gonna face multiple attackers. Avoid it. You have done it so far, so just keep it up. Seems you're good at it.

Carrying a piece should be something you are relaxed with. Not something that causes stress. If you are stressed out you are gonna make mistakes. Mistakes with guns are usually not the kind that result in funny stories.

If you are tied in knots about this. Untie yourself, leave the piece at home or in the vehicle. You got a blade anyway right?

tipoc

I didn't mean to sound like this was literally causing me anxiety or driving me mad. That was poor wording on my part. When I carry my 19 I don't feel stress or anxiety, what I meant was that I frequently question (particularly while reading gun related material) if I'd be better off with a higher capacity sidearm.

[Droid noob]

Originally Posted by LouisianaGunner12

I didn't mean to sound like this was literally causing me anxiety or driving me mad. That was poor wording on my part. When I carry my 19 I don't feel stress or anxiety, what I meant was that I frequently question (particularly while reading gun related material) if I'd be better off with a higher capacity sidearm.

What are the pros and cons to carrying your 19 vs a higher capacity firearm?
Weight, printing, reload time, capacity? Write it out or just think about it. Then decide if it's worth it to you.

My school of thought changes with the environment around us. We get loads of info from the news, books, forums that shape our opinions or beliefs in what we carry. Whatever you go with, train for that particular setup and be happy. Good luck!

[tipoc]

I didn't mean to sound like this was literally causing me anxiety or driving me mad. That was poor wording on my part. When I carry my 19 I don't feel stress or anxiety, what I meant was that I frequently question (particularly while reading gun related material) if I'd be better off with a higher capacity sidearm.

That's a question for you to consider as you are. As you also note when you read advice on the internet or in the gun press that advice is often to carry more guns and ammo.

Ask yourself this, if you were reading a Golf magazine or forum or a stereo magazine or forum would such a source advise buying new or more golf clubs to up your game? Or newer and better sound equipment? The answer is likely yes. So don't be surprised when you hear similiar on a gun forum.

I think making a clear headed assessment of your actual threat level is called for. If you sell weed or oxy for a living and your competitors are out to kill you then it's a pretty high threat level. If you have regular loud shouting arguments with your neighbors, then call the cops on them and snitch 'em out, get in a lot of barfights, etc. your threat level may be pretty high. If you believe the movie "End of Watch" was a documentary on your life, then you may need to carry more guns.

Most of us though aren't Jason Bourne and never will be.

If your not sure what your daily threat level really is discuss it with neighbors, co-workers, relations, etc. Since they do about what you do and live like you, what do they think of the threat level they live with. Consider it and decide what to do.

I'm reminded of a story Massad Ayoob told once of going to a seminar of gun writers and firearms instructors where 25 or so well known folks gathered. At the beginning of the meet someone asked what the attendees were carrying. Only one was carrying a full sized gun. The rest either J frame S&Ws or small semis in .380. None were carrying multiple guns. This was in a major urban center. None of them felt the need.

tipoc

[jmorris]

6 shots is plenty unless you find yourself needing 7. However 250 rounds is also plenty unless you need 251...

[easyg]

FYI, it is common for gangs to only go out with large groups of "soldiers". Seeing groups of 20-40 gang members at a time is not uncommon. 4 - 10 vehicles. For "special" events they can have hundreds at once. The ability to coordinate them drops as the numbers increase, but still extraordinarily dangerous should you become their target. Think of them like coyotes. Brave in packs, cowards individually.

These packs are out there. Really in every state, mostly urban but not always. Also seen on highways between urban areas. If you haven't seen them, you probably just haven't noticed them.

Pistol on my hip, carbine in the car, work, house, etc. I try not to be too far from a carbine, or for too long.

Yeah, gangs do exist.
But carrying a carbine isn't going to save you if they decide to target you.
There's just no way one armed man is going to survive a determined attack by 20-40 armed gang members, carbine or no carbine.

Besides, gang members aren't as dumb as some folks think.
They know the "rules of engagement" as well as anyone, and better than some.

[sixgunner455]

Yeah, gangs do exist.
But carrying a carbine isn't going to save you if they decide to target you.

Can't hurt. Beats doing nothing.

[KenW.]

Here in Utah I feel just fine going to the 7/11 a half mile from home carrying a two-shot derringer or a 5-shot J-Frame. In Detroit? Maybe a 16-round mag isn't enough.

Depends on the conditions of your surroundings.

[Certaindeaf]

Is that a six shot .22lr carbine? lolz. Wait'll I whip this out, why don't ya!

[Snakeshift]

Originally Posted by Youngster

It'll never be as fast or fumble free though, especially under a big andrenal dump or if you're in some awkward position.

I've seen PLENTY of people fumble and drop mags for Semi-Auto's while trying to reload quickly. Reloading under stress is HARD no matter what platform you are using.

It all comes down to training and muscle-memory.