I am looking into forming an ammo manufacturing company. $ requirements?

jlbraun · March 9, 2013, 02:33 PM

And by "manufacturing" I mean not buying components and assembling them, I mean making the cases and bullets themselves, from base metal components.

This means a need for serious heavy equipment.

What kind of $ investment are we talking about here?

Investors may be involved.

The only place that I've found with a real equipment list for this is Prvi Partisan, and I've emailed them for more details.

http://www.prvipartizan.com/machines.php

PPA - 031 Machine for cartridge case drawing
PPA - 051 Machine for cartridge case trimming
PPA - 061 Machine for case indenting and heading
PPA - 091 Machine for firing holes piercing
PPA - 081 Horizontal press for necking
PPA - 381 Machine for visual inspection of cartridge case
PPA - 101 Machine for grooving and cutting
PPA - 111 Machine for dimensional inspection of cartridge case
PPA - 431 Machine for induction annealing of cartridge case mouth
PPA - 461 Machine for visual inspection and varnishing of case
PPA - 131 Machine for priming and varnishing
PPA - 332 Machine for lead core manufacturing
PPA - 521 Machine for bullet assembling
PPA - 351 Machine for bullet grooving
PPA - 361 Machine for bullet size control
PPA - 371 Machine for bullet weight control
PPA - 511 Polishing drum
PPA - 541 Machine for cartridge assembling
PPA - 531 Machine for visual inspection of cartridge
PPA - 671 Machine for weight control of micro packing

JSmith · March 9, 2013, 02:42 PM

Don't forget boxing and labeling the finished product - that's another machine or two - and you'll need shipping paraphernalia. Will you be doing web sales?

There are 20 machines on that list! Post again when they send their price list.

Legion489 · March 9, 2013, 03:03 PM

Yeah, that is only the MACHINES needed! You need drawing dies for each cartridge, punching dies for various grades/types/thicknesses/diameters of brass (depending on what you want to make), annealing machines for the between draws of the brass, headers (headstamp markers) for each cartridge, etc. It is no accident that most of the ammo/powder/bullet makers got their start (RCBS, CCI, Speer, Hodgdon, Hornady, etc) right after WWII when the big companies were scraping machinery and the gov't was selling off all it's old stuff. If you go to the factories and get a tour you will see a LOT of machinery that dates back to the 1920's and 1930's and still is being used.

Try to find a AMMUNITION MANUFACTURING from the Industrial Press from the early 1900s (I have the 1911 [?] CD I bought off of E-bay and a later 1918 book, I've also seen reprints of the book too so you don't have to mess up an original) that should give you some ideas.

RhinoDefense · March 9, 2013, 03:25 PM

Investment for one set of machines and tooling for one bullet and load will be north of $500,000 with all those machines. Best thing at this point is to contact Silver State Armory. They have a consultation staff that can help you.

frankenstein406 · March 9, 2013, 03:33 PM

Couldn't you just buy all that 556, 9mm and 308? Used brass from the gov liquidation sites and reload it yourself on a good progressive. Start up a once fired reload company? Might be a way to get your foot in the door.

JSmith · March 9, 2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

This means a need for serious heavy equipment.

And a place to put it. Don't forget the building (with factory/office/warehouse space.)

DC Plumber · March 9, 2013, 03:46 PM

Isn't reloads how Black Hills' Ammo got started?

Now look at them.

joeschmoe · March 9, 2013, 04:18 PM

Do you have any experience in ammo manufacturing or any commercial manufacturing? Business? Do you have money or knowledge to invest? What do YOU bring to the table other than an idea for a business that already exists? If you had enough background you could probably start this with just a credit card and some of your old contacts. A total outsider with no experience will only last until you run out of money. You could blow $1 million and not sell a single box.

RhinoDefense · March 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Isn't reloads how Black Hills' Ammo got started?

Yes. Jeff Hoffman reloaded the ammunition for his police department using a Dillon 1050 in his garage. That's how he/it got started.

kingmt · March 9, 2013, 09:13 PM

I see equipment on eBay all the time. is start used. Probably stay with used.

Itzdapig · March 9, 2013, 09:37 PM

liability insurance is huge! I would start there.it will probably scare you.

Speedgoat · March 9, 2013, 09:54 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do belive that you'd need to obtain a Manufacturer's FFL liscense. Between that, getting your 'plant' built, outfitted, on and on, you may be late to catch the wave of our current ammo shortage / rush, and in turn be going into business during what many seem to think will be a flooded market. Insurance is probably going to be a big deal as well. That being said if you think you can make it work go for it! Always good to have another manufacturer out there!

Welding Rod · March 9, 2013, 09:57 PM

I checked into the liability insurance about 20 years ago when I was thinking of setting up to service a then relatively new niche market, CAS. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

jim243 · March 9, 2013, 10:06 PM

What has been mentioned so far is fixed investment costs. Now you need to look at what it will cost you in supplies. Are there any available for you to even start once you get all your machines?? Blank brass disks to draw cases? Available lead to make bullets with?? Not sure what a rail car of gun powder costs, but that's how it's sold. Shipping charges and hazmat fees for that much gun powder must be huge. Does CCI have enough primers to sell to you with all their other contacts they have?

It might make more sense to have Lake City make the rounds for you with your label on the boxes and sell that until your profits warrent purchasing your own machines.

Just an idea.
Jim

ArchAngelCD · March 9, 2013, 10:21 PM

You should be talking to lawyers, investment bankers and people who are currently in manufacturing, not people on a shooting forum. All you will get here is speculation from people who thing they have an idea of what's involved in starting a multimillion dollar ammunition manufacturing company.

MarshallDodge · March 9, 2013, 11:05 PM

If you are serious and have the funds, check out Setpoint
http://www.setpointusa.com/ammunitio...equipment.html

They recently finished a large line for a major ammunition manufacturer.

SCPigpen · March 9, 2013, 11:11 PM

If you are trying to rget in on the ammo shortage you are too far behind. Unless this situation lasts for 5 or more years. After you figure in all the time to get investments, equipment, location, permits, licenses, staffing, training we will either be serfs, subjects, prisoners or dead.

blarby · March 10, 2013, 03:09 AM

The 1st year liability isnt bad- about $2300.

I wish you the best of luck.

Legion489 · March 12, 2013, 02:20 PM

#9
RhinoDefense
Member

Join Date: July 2, 2010
Posts: 872 Quote:
Isn't reloads how Black Hills' Ammo got started?

Yes. Jeff Hoffman reloaded the ammunition for his police department using a Dillon 1050 in his garage. That's how he/it got started.

Ahhhh...another basement bandit/garage dealer stealing the food out of the mouth of people with store fronts! At least that is what one local scum calls everyone who got started EXACTLY AS HE DID! I find it amazing that with all the hate out there that any one admits that is how they got started. Of course if you look at the list of people who got started the exact same way, Lee, Hodgdon, Speer, RCBS, CCI, etc. it is/was quite common.

Well if the guy can get the ammo company up and running and provide a product others aren't, or won't, I say more power to him!

MtnCreek · March 12, 2013, 02:27 PM

IMHO, forget starting out making your own cases; even some of the big manufacturers outsource that.

109Hammer · March 12, 2013, 02:30 PM

Its a saturated market. I'd think twice.

Uncle Richard · March 12, 2013, 03:02 PM

Even if someone had the capital and knowledge, acquiring the materials (primers, powder, bullets, brass) is exceptionally difficult right now.

hentown · March 12, 2013, 07:03 PM

I don't intend to manufacture components, but I have been manufacturing ammo for my person use for a long time. I have an application pending for a class 6 license and will be selling whatever I can crank out with my Dillon 650. Only want to work 2-3 hrs a day for a few days per week.

I doubt if I'll sell over 10k rounds monthly.

joeschmoe · March 12, 2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 109Hammer

Its a saturated market. I'd think twice.

How do you figure that claim? Store shelves are empty and demand is at record highs. I would hope some would jump in to fill the obvious need.

brickeyee · March 13, 2013, 01:18 PM

Make sure you register for ITAR.

March 9, 2013, 02:33 PM	#1
jlbraun Member Join Date: December 29, 2005 Posts: 2,203	I am looking into forming an ammo manufacturing company. $ requirements? And by "manufacturing" I mean not buying components and assembling them, I mean making the cases and bullets themselves, from base metal components. This means a need for serious heavy equipment. What kind of $ investment are we talking about here? Investors may be involved. The only place that I've found with a real equipment list for this is Prvi Partisan, and I've emailed them for more details. http://www.prvipartizan.com/machines.php PPA - 031 Machine for cartridge case drawing PPA - 051 Machine for cartridge case trimming PPA - 061 Machine for case indenting and heading PPA - 091 Machine for firing holes piercing PPA - 081 Horizontal press for necking PPA - 381 Machine for visual inspection of cartridge case PPA - 101 Machine for grooving and cutting PPA - 111 Machine for dimensional inspection of cartridge case PPA - 431 Machine for induction annealing of cartridge case mouth PPA - 461 Machine for visual inspection and varnishing of case PPA - 131 Machine for priming and varnishing PPA - 332 Machine for lead core manufacturing PPA - 521 Machine for bullet assembling PPA - 351 Machine for bullet grooving PPA - 361 Machine for bullet size control PPA - 371 Machine for bullet weight control PPA - 511 Polishing drum PPA - 541 Machine for cartridge assembling PPA - 531 Machine for visual inspection of cartridge PPA - 671 Machine for weight control of micro packing __________________ Gun control is archaic, outdated, racist, classist, and sexist. It has no place in a modern, tolerant, and liberal society. Being pro-gun is a liberal value. Last edited by jlbraun; March 9, 2013 at 03:47 PM.

March 9, 2013, 02:42 PM	#2
JSmith Member Join Date: April 11, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 260	Don't forget boxing and labeling the finished product - that's another machine or two - and you'll need shipping paraphernalia. Will you be doing web sales? There are 20 machines on that list! Post again when they send their price list. Last edited by JSmith; March 9, 2013 at 02:48 PM.

March 9, 2013, 03:25 PM	#4
RhinoDefense Member Join Date: July 2, 2010 Posts: 878	Investment for one set of machines and tooling for one bullet and load will be north of $500,000 with all those machines. Best thing at this point is to contact Silver State Armory. They have a consultation staff that can help you. __________________ Rhino Munitions Nothing else hits like a Rhino.™ The best caliber for African dangerous game is accurate shot placement and good bullet performance.

March 9, 2013, 04:18 PM	#8
joeschmoe Member Join Date: December 27, 2012 Posts: 1,189	Do you have any experience in ammo manufacturing or any commercial manufacturing? Business? Do you have money or knowledge to invest? What do YOU bring to the table other than an idea for a business that already exists? If you had enough background you could probably start this with just a credit card and some of your old contacts. A total outsider with no experience will only last until you run out of money. You could blow $1 million and not sell a single box. __________________ Sent via Laser Telegraphy Encryption from my Mobile Moon Base.

March 9, 2013, 09:13 PM	#10
kingmt Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Posts: 3,059	I see equipment on eBay all the time. is start used. Probably stay with used. __________________ What I do isn't instruction for others. It is only the way I do things. You need to make your own decisions. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." For every action there is a reaction.

March 9, 2013, 03:03 PM	#3
Legion489 member Join Date: June 8, 2012 Posts: 166	Yeah, that is only the MACHINES needed! You need drawing dies for each cartridge, punching dies for various grades/types/thicknesses/diameters of brass (depending on what you want to make), annealing machines for the between draws of the brass, headers (headstamp markers) for each cartridge, etc. It is no accident that most of the ammo/powder/bullet makers got their start (RCBS, CCI, Speer, Hodgdon, Hornady, etc) right after WWII when the big companies were scraping machinery and the gov't was selling off all it's old stuff. If you go to the factories and get a tour you will see a LOT of machinery that dates back to the 1920's and 1930's and still is being used. Try to find a AMMUNITION MANUFACTURING from the Industrial Press from the early 1900s (I have the 1911 [?] CD I bought off of E-bay and a later 1918 book, I've also seen reprints of the book too so you don't have to mess up an original) that should give you some ideas.

March 9, 2013, 03:33 PM	#5
frankenstein406 Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Posts: 376	Couldn't you just buy all that 556, 9mm and 308? Used brass from the gov liquidation sites and reload it yourself on a good progressive. Start up a once fired reload company? Might be a way to get your foot in the door.

March 9, 2013, 03:46 PM	#7
DC Plumber Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: NE of The Frozen Tundra Posts: 300	Isn't reloads how Black Hills' Ammo got started? Now look at them.

March 9, 2013, 09:37 PM	#11
Itzdapig Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 4	liability insurance is huge! I would start there.it will probably scare you.

March 9, 2013, 09:54 PM	#12
Speedgoat Member Join Date: June 13, 2011 Location: Wyo. Posts: 135	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do belive that you'd need to obtain a Manufacturer's FFL liscense. Between that, getting your 'plant' built, outfitted, on and on, you may be late to catch the wave of our current ammo shortage / rush, and in turn be going into business during what many seem to think will be a flooded market. Insurance is probably going to be a big deal as well. That being said if you think you can make it work go for it! Always good to have another manufacturer out there!

March 9, 2013, 09:57 PM	#13
Welding Rod Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Posts: 1,099	I checked into the liability insurance about 20 years ago when I was thinking of setting up to service a then relatively new niche market, CAS. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. __________________ Burying guns to hide them from government is cowardice. A man who would hand his in is worthy of more respect.

March 9, 2013, 10:06 PM	#14
jim243 Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 1,519	What has been mentioned so far is fixed investment costs. Now you need to look at what it will cost you in supplies. Are there any available for you to even start once you get all your machines?? Blank brass disks to draw cases? Available lead to make bullets with?? Not sure what a rail car of gun powder costs, but that's how it's sold. Shipping charges and hazmat fees for that much gun powder must be huge. Does CCI have enough primers to sell to you with all their other contacts they have? It might make more sense to have Lake City make the rounds for you with your label on the boxes and sell that until your profits warrent purchasing your own machines. Just an idea. Jim Last edited by jim243; March 9, 2013 at 10:14 PM.

March 9, 2013, 10:21 PM	#15
ArchAngelCD Member Join Date: November 25, 2006 Location: PA, USA Posts: 13,813	You should be talking to lawyers, investment bankers and people who are currently in manufacturing, not people on a shooting forum. All you will get here is speculation from people who thing they have an idea of what's involved in starting a multimillion dollar ammunition manufacturing company. __________________ Remember boys and girls, gun control only prevents law abiding Americans from owning guns because the Bad Guys don’t obey the laws, no matter how restrictive or lenient the laws are!

March 9, 2013, 11:05 PM	#16
MarshallDodge Member Join Date: November 7, 2005 Location: Utah, USA Posts: 1,603	If you are serious and have the funds, check out Setpoint http://www.setpointusa.com/ammunitio...equipment.html They recently finished a large line for a major ammunition manufacturer. __________________ BA/UU/R.... In memory of Dave McCracken.

March 9, 2013, 11:11 PM	#17
SCPigpen Member Join Date: May 25, 2008 Location: Wretched Hive of Scum & Villainy Posts: 109	If you are trying to rget in on the ammo shortage you are too far behind. Unless this situation lasts for 5 or more years. After you figure in all the time to get investments, equipment, location, permits, licenses, staffing, training we will either be serfs, subjects, prisoners or dead.

March 10, 2013, 03:09 AM	#18
blarby Member Join Date: February 25, 2011 Location: JC, Oregon Posts: 2,900	The 1st year liability isnt bad- about $2300. I wish you the best of luck. __________________ 05/14/03 : My life has been CRAZY busy. If I owe you anything on a trade, or a PIF- please PM me with my apologies in advance !

March 12, 2013, 02:20 PM	#19
Legion489 member Join Date: June 8, 2012 Posts: 166	#9 RhinoDefense Member Join Date: July 2, 2010 Posts: 872 Quote: Isn't reloads how Black Hills' Ammo got started? Yes. Jeff Hoffman reloaded the ammunition for his police department using a Dillon 1050 in his garage. That's how he/it got started. Ahhhh...another basement bandit/garage dealer stealing the food out of the mouth of people with store fronts! At least that is what one local scum calls everyone who got started EXACTLY AS HE DID! I find it amazing that with all the hate out there that any one admits that is how they got started. Of course if you look at the list of people who got started the exact same way, Lee, Hodgdon, Speer, RCBS, CCI, etc. it is/was quite common. Well if the guy can get the ammo company up and running and provide a product others aren't, or won't, I say more power to him!

March 12, 2013, 02:27 PM	#20
MtnCreek Member Join Date: December 8, 2010 Location: West GA Posts: 2,805	IMHO, forget starting out making your own cases; even some of the big manufacturers outsource that. __________________ Please don’t mistake Free Stuff for Freedom. My dogs are provided everything they need; they are Not Free.

March 12, 2013, 02:30 PM	#21
109Hammer Member Join Date: December 3, 2010 Posts: 98	Its a saturated market. I'd think twice. __________________ "You can't use reason to get someone out of believeing something they haven't used reason to get themselves to believe"

March 12, 2013, 03:02 PM	#22
Uncle Richard Member Join Date: January 1, 2012 Location: WV Posts: 232	Even if someone had the capital and knowledge, acquiring the materials (primers, powder, bullets, brass) is exceptionally difficult right now. __________________ Thanks, Joe. "Hey nephew, lets go bust some caps!".....and...."You can never have to much ammunition.".... - Uncle Richard's (02/09/28 - 10/11/01) famous quotes

March 12, 2013, 07:03 PM	#23
hentown Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Posts: 1,081	I don't intend to manufacture components, but I have been manufacturing ammo for my person use for a long time. I have an application pending for a class 6 license and will be selling whatever I can crank out with my Dillon 650. Only want to work 2-3 hrs a day for a few days per week. I doubt if I'll sell over 10k rounds monthly.

March 13, 2013, 01:18 PM	#25
brickeyee Member Join Date: February 25, 2005 Posts: 2,817	Make sure you register for ITAR.