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Old June 17, 2015, 02:37 PM   #1
hollywood63
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All Copper Bullets

Does anyone have experience with either C O P or General bullets? Looking mainly at .357. C O P are fairly cheap compared to General or Barnes but you know what that typically means.

http://www.generalbullet.com/why.html
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Old June 17, 2015, 06:05 PM   #2
gamestalker
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Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know these guys existed. And at those prices, I think it would be worth a test drive. Usually solids, such as Barnes, are considerably more expensive.

I was thinking of trying the 125 gr. .357 mag. flavor. What stirs my interest, is that solids are longer than cup & core, so by using a 125 gr. solid in a full house H110/296 load, I should be able avoid some of the issue of forcing cone gas cutting that typically occurs with shorter cup & core 125's in such an application. There should or would be a longer bearing / shank surface, so I assume this might be pretty consistent with that of a 140 gr. cup & core?

I think I'll order a few boxes. I'm going to try the 110 gr. for my +p 38 spcl load, and some 125s and 140's to test with my H110/296 loads. If I like the results, I may try some other's, .40 cal, 9mm, 44 cal.. And if those do alright, I might even give the rifle calibers a run, though I'm not really much of a fan of solids for bottle neck uses.

I don't have any ballistic gel, so what I usually do is run them through 16" of tightly rolled up water soaked denim that is in a box of water. The way I do this it's not as though I'm shooting through water, as the soaked denim almost consumes all of the standing water. I use a couple strips of bailing wire to wrap the denim, but after it's be thoroughly soaked. then I put the denim in a cardboard box lined with a trash liner, making sure the denim consumes all available space. I then fill the box with water to keep the denim well saturated.

It's no perfect, but it at least provides some idea of how the projectile performs.

GS
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Old June 19, 2015, 03:11 PM   #3
tightgroup tiger
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Thanks from me also, I'm looking at the 140gr .357mags. Looks interesting for hunting loads, I'm ordering two boxes of the 140 gr to play with.

Sorry OP, I'll have to let you know latter, it may take a while.

Hey Mike, Let me know how you make out with the 125grs.
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Old June 19, 2015, 05:27 PM   #4
gamestalker
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You betcha.

Like I was saying, I'm hoping these will have a long enough profile to off set the common blow by problem associated with standard cup & core when running full tilt 296 loads. I think this might be an interesting test run, and in all aspects.

GS
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Old June 19, 2015, 06:26 PM   #5
tightgroup tiger
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I completely agree, I know a couple Coyote's that will be the focus of the attention with me and a certain N-frame Smith!

The 140s are on their way from Midway, just got confirmation.

Holleywood63, We'll get back to you!
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Old June 20, 2015, 02:50 AM   #6
gamestalker
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I'll get them ordered, tightgroup tiger and I we'll let ya know how our test runs go.

I love the velocity I get with 125's and 296, so I'm looking forward to checking these 125's out. 110 gr. solids might even have some potential at magnum velocities. I've driven lots of 110 gr. XTP's with 296, so a solid should do a bit better I would think, if not much better, I guess we'll see. It would be kind of cool to get super high velocities without all the damaging gas blow by associated with short bullets and 296.

But I gotta wait for the temps to cool down a tad before I get back out. It was like 110 or something yesterday, too darn warm to go shooting. But they say it's a very dry heat, I guess that explains why my little Chihuahua looks like a strip of jerky with 4 legs. But the good news is, we're supposed to be rolling into monsoon season right about now.

BTW, a few weeks ago I ran some 110 gr. XTP's with 23.0 grs. of 296, and at 15 yards they were extremely accurate, so were the 125's. They;re definitely flame throwers though. But I'm not crazy about running them through my snub 66's on regular basis, though I have put plenty through both the -2 and the -5 without any problems, I'm sure it's not a healthy diet for K frame.

GS
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Old June 20, 2015, 07:25 AM   #7
tightgroup tiger
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Quote:
I'm sure it's not a healthy diet for K frame.
That's pretty scary, Gamestalker, you be careful.
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Old June 20, 2015, 08:39 AM   #8
TwinReverb
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My wife has shot them, as have I. The recoil is lower it seems (lower bullet weight). But I wouldn't use them for self defense, as (per several YouTube videos) their performance isn't up to par with the likes of HST, A-max, Z-max, Hydra-Shok, etc, the big names.
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Old June 20, 2015, 06:38 PM   #9
tightgroup tiger
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Will take that under advisement. As with any new product, especially a bullet, we need to test, test, test.

The OP was asking if anyone new anything about these bullets and you are the only one that does.

Thank you for that.

We are going to test these and see whether they are good or bad, your wife already voted bad, I hope I didn't just wasted $35.00 but we will see.

Now, I'm apprehensive!
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Old June 21, 2015, 10:04 AM   #10
Artofgolf
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Solid Copper

It's interesting how the solid copper bullets are now becoming more available.
The ones I have from Lehigh Defense are rated to 4000 fps on the Penetrator & 2000 fps on the fragmenting version ~
Now to find a safe charge to get near maximum performance without a kaboom
Careful now......

IMG_0205.jpg (click on image to expand)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood63 View Post
.. Looking mainly at .357....
Both Lehigh versions for .357 listed here : http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/357
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Last edited by Artofgolf; June 21, 2015 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Add pic & text
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Old June 22, 2015, 05:51 PM   #11
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I'd be careful using loads for lead bullets with the solid copper. I know when using Barnes, the charges are often less than lead bullets. General should supply load data with their bullets. Just be careful. Start low and work up

Ken
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Old June 22, 2015, 06:05 PM   #12
tightgroup tiger
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I ordered the C.O.P bullets, The General's were more expensive than I wanted to pay. I'll work up a load for them.
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Old June 22, 2015, 06:56 PM   #13
Hondo 60
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What am I missing?
Their prices are horrid!

$220 for 500 9mm????
I can get atleast a dozen other brands of bullets for fractions of that cost.
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Old June 24, 2015, 11:30 PM   #14
gamestalker
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Ah heck tightgroup tiger, you take all the fun out of it.

I do keep an eye on my forcing cones, but in all honesty, if you were to inspect my two 66's, you would be hard pressed to see any indication that I almost exclusively run 296 loads in both of them, thousands of them.

GS
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Old June 25, 2015, 05:49 AM   #15
ku4hx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo 60 View Post
What am I missing?
Their prices are horrid!

$220 for 500 9mm????
I can get atleast a dozen other brands of bullets for fractions of that cost.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. And if they are so good, the web would be flooded with the news ... we all know how shooters are.

Monolithic bullets have been around for decades so there's nothing really new about these.

Loading data is different for all copper bullets because to get the same weight as a cup and core bullet, it has to be physically longer. This added length increases bearing surface which apparently increases pressure which in turn means less powder for a safe maximum, or near maximum, load. Barnes appears to mitigates this by "banding" at least some of their bullets to reduce bearing surface. Better minds than I can say this better I'm sure.
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Old June 26, 2015, 09:18 PM   #16
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Since we are in uncharted territory here, I thought some reference loads might be helpful. Lehigh had load data for their Penetrator 140gr solid copper 357 Magnum

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...31504626095046

Hope this helps....

(Hey TT: Lehigh used Titegroup for their factory load)
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Last edited by Artofgolf; June 26, 2015 at 09:25 PM.
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Old June 27, 2015, 02:21 PM   #17
gotboostvr
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With the mentions of them being affordable I looked into the prices. Comparing 140gr COPs to 140gr XTPs you're looking at $17 for 50 from COP, or $19 for 100 XTPs.
I understand some places may require lead free ammo, but do they have any other uses?
I think XTPs preform wonderfully inside their performance envlope (I keep their handy chart saved on my phone)
If they're an option I'll use XTPs right now, but is the any other benefits I may be unaware of?
The longer bullet minimizing flame cutting is interesting, but wouldn't it also cut down on case capacity and possibly limit velocity as a effect due to reducing the powder charge accordingly?

Or is it a small enough difference to be considered negligible?
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Old June 27, 2015, 06:55 PM   #18
tightgroup tiger
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I don't think they are great deal at all, we are just playing with longer than normal bullets for our own satisfaction. I have no intensions of using these all the time.

Maybe for hunting only. I use XTPs for my high performance loads so these are just something new for me to play with.

The C.O.P.s 140gr are supposed to be the same geometry as Barnes solids.

Their reloading data will get me started,

AOG, I will check out the Lehigh data also. Thanks.

TT
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