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Old April 23, 2013, 02:36 PM   #26
jerkface11
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Odd the revolver guys don't seem to think .357 is too much.
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Old April 23, 2013, 02:55 PM   #27
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You'll hear plenty of revolver guys talk about blast and recoil and even damage to their guns from hot 357's Many download to 38+p loads for carry. My revolver views are similar to my auto, if I were hunting I'd opt for a hot heavy 357 load but probably go with a lighter bullet at a mid range velocity for defense.
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Old April 23, 2013, 03:14 PM   #28
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I carry a Glock 29 in a DeSantis pocket holster. Nobody has spotted it and it is quick and easy to get into action. They're a good pair!
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Old April 23, 2013, 05:11 PM   #29
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X-Rap, it might be odd, especially because I carry a lot of different guns concealed, but the Glock 29 is the most frequent of them all, and at the upper end of the power spectrum. It has a good weight/size/power ratio. Just recently I shot the gun two hands over the table at 25 yards, and the G29 placed every shot in the head of a silhouette easily. This was slow fire. A pistol with such a short barrel shouldn't be that accurate. If I had to deliver a fast shot at that longer-than-usual gunfighting range, I'd aim center mass. It is nice to know that a small, powerful gun CAN deliver accuracy equal to or better than most other options for concealed carry. I even hate to admit it, but should I be pressed to choose one gun to fight with, or limit myself to, that Glock 29 would be the one for me. I considered my Ruger Security Six .357 to be very accurate, and the Glock 29 kept right up with it that day at the range. Throw in it's much more compact size, and 11 round potential (with 15 round back up mags available) and it's just plain hard to beat. I am a fairly big person, with strong hands, and repeat shots are not handicapped much by the extra recoil.
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Old April 23, 2013, 05:57 PM   #30
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The FBI didn't think so, then whiny agents complained the recoil was too much so it was watered down. And therein was born the 40 Small & Weak. Or Small and Wimpy ... whatever.
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Old April 23, 2013, 06:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
And therein was born the 40 Small & Weak
Its generally called a "40 short & weak," because it is a shortened case to make the 40 S&W.
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Old April 23, 2013, 06:40 PM   #32
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
Is a 10mm too much for self defense?
It is only 'to much' if you can't handle whatever platform you use.

See a 15 oz 10mm would be a bear to shoot fast, one handed, but a 40 oz 1911 Delta Elite is not bad at all (nor is the Glock 10mm.)

I do find the Glock 29, sub-compact 10mm, is kind of hard to control one handed with full power 200 gr loads, at least for ME.

As for the effect on a bad guy, more is always better.

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Old April 23, 2013, 07:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
And therein was born the 40 Small & Weak. Or Small and Wimpy ... whatever.
I've yet to see anyone throw out that quote that wants to take a hit from one of them wimpy rounds. Just sayin'.
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:05 PM   #34
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If self-defense includes four-legged offenders, no it's not too much.


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Old April 23, 2013, 07:05 PM   #35
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The FBI was shooting 10mm out of steel framed S&W gen III's. Recoil shouldn't have been an issue. The weight of the gun was most likely the problem.
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Old April 23, 2013, 08:19 PM   #36
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Yeah I think it was mostly the bulk of the gun that was the problem, not the recoil. Speaking of which, that's one of my main issues with the 10mm, the size of the weapon. I've had a G20/29sf and have a G21/30 Gen4 and it's not too big, but it's generally bigger and fatter than the 9/.40/357 Sig sized guns, one exception being the 1911 platform.

As for the 10mm itself, it's a good cartridge and not too much IMHO. Unless you're shooting heavier 200gr+, penetration really isn't much more, and due to excess speed often penetration is less than many .40/.45 loads. I used to have 10mm, and while nice I don't see that it's doing anything the .40 or .45 isn't.
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Old April 23, 2013, 08:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hentown View Post
The Fish case was an anomaly. The judge should have charged the jury that the caliber had nothing to do with the case, and the defense attorney should have objected to the prosecutor's "opinion" about the 10mm.

You're going to get stupid people on the bench and on juries. That's the way the system works. (or, in this case, doesn't work.)

I believe the prosecutor gets the last closing argument. If he didn't mention the "uniqueness" of the 10mm until then, then the judge should have addressed that idiocy during his charge.
Agree that the caliber should not be a factor. A light trigger should not be a factor, reloaded ammo should not be a factor. A 30 round mag should not be a factor. The key word is should. All of these will most likely be questions that the defense will have to answer and potentially cause a distraction that may hinder your defense. So, unless you have really good answers or a lot of money, it does not make sense to add more questions that could be used against you.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:12 PM   #38
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Is 10mm is too much self defense?? Not in my opinion. But I carry tire chains, a tow strap a shovel and blankets all winter. You see loads of folks with bald tires in the middle of nowhere off in the ditch and so far NO ONE who has needed a jump-start from me has had their own cables????

Ignorance is bliss? - only for a while.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:29 PM   #39
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Glock 29 + Hornady 155 gr. XTP @ 1,278 fps / 562# KE = SD
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:00 PM   #40
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I think the Op's question is valid and I addressed it by using basically a handloaded round that is on the hot side of the 40 S&W. I absolutely love the 10MM and think it is the BEST self defense round made. I do have somewhat of a follow up shot problem with full hot 10MM loads for SD. I apply the same principle to my 44 Magnum when using it for SD. I use 44 Special loads in it. By the way, I don't see any need to address over-penetration in any caliber.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:05 PM   #41
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Never fired a 10mm, but I'd love to have me some Delta Elite goodness.....
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:02 AM   #42
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Is the 10mm too much for SD?



Boy, I sure hope not. I been packin' one or the other of these two for quite a few years.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:55 AM   #43
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Carry this one all the time. It was worked over by Chuck Warner.
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Old April 24, 2013, 01:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
Glock 29 + Hornady 155 gr. XTP @ 1,278 fps / 562# KE = SD
A .40 "short and weak" will throw that same 155 grain bullet at 1150. Does 120 fps make much difference? I think not.
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:03 AM   #45
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Biggest thing I'd say you need to worry about is whether you can use it effectively.
I agree. I had a Colt Delta Elite Enhanced and it was tough to shoot with the heavy full boat loads. I also don't like the hit quality and what I see on the timer when I shoot a 10mm Glock. I suppose it just depends on how much one is willing to give up in the "fast and accurate" department.
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Old April 24, 2013, 10:46 AM   #46
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Every gun out there is a balance of weight, power, capacity, and other design factors that contribute to its ability to provide fast recovery shots. Some guys prefer power over speed, hence the choices for .45, 10mm, .357, .44, etc over 9mm, etc. It's whatever YOU prefer. No one has the market on the "perfect gun".
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:48 PM   #47
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It's not too much if you train with it. But can you afford to shoot it enough (or even find enough 10mm) to be proficient?
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:54 PM   #48
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Dan Wesson once offered the 10mm in a 1911 Commander platform. Page two link to a review of the DW and the writer considered its recoil as moderate, even with hot loads.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/169.htm

For personal defense ammunition, the 10mm is like a walk through a candy store with numerous choices for the consumer. Living in a rural habitat, heavy 200/220gr WFNs are advantageous and I haven't found their recoil from a G20 to be excessive.

As a handloader, I now load JHPs under 1300fps for close range personal defense;



180gr Golden Saber, 1243fps, 0.698" expansion, 13.1" penetration 4LD.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by MK11 View Post
It's not too much if you train with it. But can you afford to shoot it enough (or even find enough 10mm) to be proficient?
Yes, Missouri Bullet Company, buy 2,000/3,000 TCFNs, bulk price and flat rate shipping.
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Old April 24, 2013, 09:05 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovice View Post
A .40 "short and weak" will throw that same 155 grain bullet at 1150. Does 120 fps make much difference? I think not.
About the same difference as a standard pressure 9mm vs 9mm +P



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