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Old September 30, 2014, 10:06 AM   #1
SilentStalker
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Will I have problems placing safe on...

I am getting a new safe and am placing it in a finished room downstairs that has that composite hardwood flooring stuff on top of a concrete slab with a moisture barrier in between. I have heard of needing to provide a way for air to flow underneath a safe to prevent rust and whatnot. Do you guys think i will be ok placing this safe directly on the fake hardwood stuff or does it need to somehow be sitting on top of something to allow airflow? Thanks for the help.
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Old September 30, 2014, 10:15 AM   #2
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I used a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet trimmed to fit for a safe cushion. I placed it pile side down. I can easily slide the safe to move it....I have no damage to my solid hardwood floors.
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Old September 30, 2014, 10:17 AM   #3
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I can tell you what I do, but I'm always curious with these types of questions. What does the company/person selling you the safe suggest?
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Old September 30, 2014, 01:52 PM   #4
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^^^I really do not remember exactly, but I think they said I would be fine and not to worry about it. But, I fully intend to talk to them again before it is delivered.
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Old September 30, 2014, 06:23 PM   #5
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Things can be different from one part of the country to the next. Humidity levels, floors on slabs (as opposed to around here where most homes have basements), etc. I would take their advice since they know your area the best.

Around here, we put self adhesive felt pads on the corners, and then set it on the floor. This allows a bit of air circulation beneath the safe, protects the floor, and still allows enough expansion and contraction.
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Old September 30, 2014, 09:38 PM   #6
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Well, it will be in a finished part of the basement in a closet of our new den which has the laminate flooring which is on top of a moisture barrier on top of the concrete. They haven't said anything about putting anything down but perhaps they will. Right now I am not extremely happy with them as I was told that they would deliver on Saturdays and now I am being told they will only do it during the week and it seems like they keep coming up with excuses not to deliver. If I don't get a decent response soon I will be canceling the transaction.
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Old October 1, 2014, 11:10 AM   #7
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If you do put some spacers underneath it, just remember more surface area is your friend. You want to spread that load over more than just 4 or 10 square inches.
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Old October 2, 2014, 01:48 PM   #8
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What do you guys think? Place something under it or set it straight down on the laminate? I really have no idea what to do in this case.
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Old October 2, 2014, 03:22 PM   #9
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I also put it on top of carpet on top of tile. It will protect the tile in the event you move it AND it will allow airflow to continue.
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Old October 3, 2014, 12:24 PM   #10
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You can always get the heavy-duty furniture glide felt pieces from Lowes and put 4-8 under your safe (felt side down) that should work
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Old October 3, 2014, 01:10 PM   #11
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All things considered barring a flood, your safe shouldn't rust through within the next couple hundred years. I've had them sitting on concrete in a garage, on concrete inside a house, on carpet, on tile....and never seen any sign of rust.
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Old October 3, 2014, 01:19 PM   #12
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Condensation would be the problem .. here is a good solution by my thinking . I have mine on the floor carpet and no cement slab underneath .. I do wish I had a riser of say 4 to 6 inches so I would not have to go so low to stack ammo on the one side . just an idea for you to consider.. I love the carpet to slide on as well that is inspired ... I use 1/2 inch PVC pipe kind of like the old Egyptian rollers for pyramid blocks .
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Old October 3, 2014, 01:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
All things considered barring a flood, your safe shouldn't rust through within the next couple hundred years. I've had them sitting on concrete in a garage, on concrete inside a house, on carpet, on tile....and never seen any sign of rust.
We just moved a safe the other day that was being stored in a basement. It had been there for 5 years, and was just about rusted through. One of the worst cases I have ever seen. It appears as if the condensation from a vent running above the safe was dripping onto it, running down the back, and settling beneath it.
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Old October 3, 2014, 01:45 PM   #14
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So, what are you all's thoughts? The dealer I bought it from said that I could place it on top of some meter sticks, but that was about all I got from them. I am not sure how one does this and still bolts it to the floor securely unless your meter sticks were around the bolts but obviously then it would be off the ground which is what we want, however, it seems to me that this would compromise the bolts some since you could then get tooling underneath the safe at that point. I mean I am kind of thinking that the laminate flooring and moisture barrier between the safe and the concrete should be sufficient but I really have no clue.
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Old October 3, 2014, 03:03 PM   #15
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How much weight can the flooring bear per square inch? This is going to determine what you place underneath it. If it's like concrete all you need is some washers around the edge to get it off the ground. But I doubt the floor can bear the weight in such a small area.
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Old October 3, 2014, 03:37 PM   #16
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Silent;

Is this location going to be permanent? Do you want to bolt the unit down? Or, do you see the unit being moved? When those questions are answered, I think better advice can be given.

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Old October 4, 2014, 10:27 PM   #17
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Well, I would like it to be permanent and bolted to the floor. However, we will most likely he moving in a couple of years and the next homeowners might not like holes drilled through the floor for this thing. That's why I am stuck on doing that or not. I do have some extra of the flooring though if the next owners did have a problem with it and wanted to replace that section of the closet. It would be a pain to do though but it could be done if they so desired. What do you all think? Bolt it down or no? Off the ground or no? One thing I do want to consider is how I am going to get this thing back up on a pallet jack once it is off the skid!
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Old October 5, 2014, 04:48 AM   #18
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Well, there are some variables here to account for.

One we can eliminate is any concern for future buyers--"hurts resale value" is hogwash. If someone want to buy your house when you put it on the market, they are buying it entire, whether the countertops are granite or laminate; or if there are some expansion bolts in the basement floor.

If you are deeply concerned, buy an extra box of laminate flooring and store it in a basement closet.

Now, the floor of the basement will be an issue. many basements are built with only a 3" slab which rests on the footer under the foundation walls. That can be a challenge, for being so thin, to get expansion bolts into. (One of those challenges is in not drilling clean through the slab, which will punch through the vapor barrier under the slab.)

Expansion anchors (which are a uniform diameter until expanded) are much easier to cope with for being able to (mostly) run them in from inside the safe.

Come a time they need removing, you can (often) just back the threaded portion clean out of the anchor, leaving a relatively flush hole in the floor.
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Old October 5, 2014, 09:49 AM   #19
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If I was concerned about the moisture under the safe I would buy a sheet of 1/2 inch marine grade plywood and cut a piece the exact same size as the bottom of the safe. I would give the plywood a coat of oil based primer and a coat of latex paint the same color as the safe. That way you don't have to worry about moisture getting to the metal. Once the safe is set on the plywood I would drill 1/2 inch holes through the concrete and install 3 or 4 anchor wedges to secure the safe to the floor. If you move the safe later you can drive the anchor wedge bolts on through the concrete and seal the holes. Once a wedge is expanded it can be driven down with a punch but it can't be pulled up. Capnmac makes a good point about not drilling the holes completely through the slab because of the moisture barrier and if you can accomplish this they make some bolts that screw directly into the concrete that can be removed later. I have an in-garage storm shelter that's attached to the floor by this method. The wedges are much stronger. As a final note, I'm wondering how you plan to get the safe into the basement, and if you get it down there how are you going to get it back out again? The reason the seller may not be cooperative is that he told his delivery people that you wanted it in the basement. They told him to deliver it himself!
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Old October 5, 2014, 02:52 PM   #20
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Haha. I guess my definition of the basement is not the same as you guys. It's really a finished portion of the garage and I call it the basement because it is below the main level of the house. It's not a basement in the true sense of the word where the only way down to it is down some stairs. The safe will be wheeled into place with a pallet jack most likely straight from the garage. It's all on the same level. No problems with going up or down stairs.
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Old October 5, 2014, 08:14 PM   #21
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Your concerns are justified. It is called hydrostatic pressure. You dont describe your home, but I envision a raised ranch type home with the garage on one side on the lower level with living space above. Most of these homes are build on a concrete slab and typically they are about two to three feet below grade.

Your safe, you dont say what kind nor do you say if it is flat on the bottom or has some sort of feet or platform underneath, pushes down on the concrete which in turn is pushing up on the safe. If it weighs a few hundred pounds, probably not a problem. If it is a large heavy duty model, it may weigh many hundreds of pounds which might be a problem.

For example I lived in a raised ranch in Connecticut. The water table was only about 25 feet below my home. When I left my car parked in the garage for a few days and then moved it, there were damp spots on the concrete where my tires rested. Not water, just damp moisture spots.

So yes, I would recommend setting it on something flat to distribute the weight evenly. Something like a 3/8 inch sheet of stainless steel or a sheet of resin cut to fit the bottom of the safe so you dont see it. When you move, dont be surprised if you see moisture effects on the laminate wood floor underneath. Someone said to buy an extra box of the flooring, good idea. I would not bank on your vapor barrier, a sheet of felt tar will only do so much.
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Old October 6, 2014, 12:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentStalker View Post
Well, I would like it to be permanent and bolted to the floor. However, we will most likely he moving in a couple of years and the next homeowners might not like holes drilled through the floor for this thing. That's why I am stuck on doing that or not. I do have some extra of the flooring though if the next owners did have a problem with it and wanted to replace that section of the closet. It would be a pain to do though but it could be done if they so desired. What do you all think? Bolt it down or no? Off the ground or no? One thing I do want to consider is how I am going to get this thing back up on a pallet jack once it is off the skid!
The company I bought my safe from uses TapCon bolts - they drill a blind hole from inside the safe and the bolts cut threads into the concrete slab. They are plenty strong to keep the safe from being rocked. When they need to move one, they back the bolts out and use a 8' specialty prybar-type tool to get under one edge, then block it up in stages. This is a 1700lb RSC.

It's not all that hard to tilt a safe, if you can open the door. Watch your toes!
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Old October 6, 2014, 01:11 PM   #23
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Buddy has a safe in his garage, it suffers extremely high humidity, between environment and the fact that snow runoff from the car in the winter keeps it damp in there- he just left it on the pallet and it's been fine for years that way.

now - in your house, a pallet might not be exactly stylish or match the decor, lol. but, if you're really really worried about it, how about those subfloor sections they sell at places like home depot that have a built in air gap for installation over concrete. they are plywood with some sort of egg-crate looking plastic bottom on them. should spread the load evenly and carry the weight fine.
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Old October 6, 2014, 01:52 PM   #24
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Fella's;

If it doesn't need to be bolted in the house, here's a suggestion. Put the unit on a couple of 4X4 blocks. Then just use the baseboard molding that matches what you have & glue some to the blocks. Looks like the safe is sort of built-in.

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