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Old November 12, 2014, 11:56 AM   #1
DeepSouth
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UN arms treaty to go into effect December 24th.

I haven't heard much about this but I've seen it in more than one news source so I assume theirs some truth in it, but I have no idea how much. So I'll sight a couple different articles that seem to cover the majority of what I've read.


Quote:
For those unfamiliar with the text of the UN’s Arms Trade Treaty, here’s a brief sketch of the most noxious provisions:

• Article 2 of the treaty defines the scope of the treaty’s prohibitions. The right to own, buy, sell, trade, or transfer all means of armed resistance, including handguns, is denied to civilians by this section of the Arms Trade Treaty.

• Article 3 places the “ammunition/munitions fired, launched or delivered by the conventional arms covered under Article 2” within the scope of the treaty’s prohibitions, as well.

• Article 4 rounds out the regulations, also placing all “parts and components” of weapons within the scheme.

• Perhaps the most immediate threat to the rights of gun owners in the Arms Trade Treaty is found in Article 5. Under the title of “General Implementation,” Article 5 mandates that all countries participating in the treaty “shall establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list.” This list should “apply the provisions of this Treaty to the broadest range of conventional arms.”

• Article 12 adds to the record-keeping requirement, mandating that the list include “the quantity, value, model/type, authorized international transfers of conventional arms,” as well as the identity of the “end users” of these items.

• Finally, the agreement demands that national governments take “appropriate measures” to enforce the terms of the treaty, including civilian disarmament. If these countries can’t get this done on their own, however, Article 16 provides for UN assistance, specifically including help with the enforcement of “stockpile management, disarmament, demobilization and reintegration programmes.” In fact, a “voluntary trust fund” will be established to assist those countries that need help from UN peacekeepers or other regional forces to disarm their citizens.

Arguably, the Arms Trade Treaty would become the law of the United States if the Senate were to ratify the treaty. For more http://m.thenewamerican.com/?url=htt...ogle.com/#2982


Quote:
So what will that mean for the United States once this treaty goes into force? Well, thanks to the Obama Administration and John Kerry for signing the most worldwide form of gun control and sovereignty invalidating piece of garbage in history, even if the Senate doesn’t ratify it, the effects will still be extensive.

First and foremost, since the US has a thing about liberty (we love it) and by nature disdains the forfeiture of its own sovereignty as well as creating gun registries, we will not ratify and because we won’t bend a knee, the importation of firearms from other countries will all but evaporate.

Small arms from countries that have ratified the treaty include Germany, Italy, Romania and the United Kingdom and as such will be compelled by international treaty to stop importation of their wares to the United States. Other countries that have signed up and are awaiting ratification include Austria, Belgium, and the Czech Republic; so get ready to say goodbye to your Glocks, Brownings and Czech made AK’s

Read more at http://girlsjustwannahaveguns.com/gu...fect-dec-24th/
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Last edited by DeepSouth; November 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM.
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Old November 12, 2014, 12:59 PM   #2
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Quote:
• Article 2 of the treaty defines the scope of the treaty’s prohibitions. The right to own, buy, sell, trade, or transfer all means of armed resistance, including handguns, is denied to civilians by this section of the Arms Trade Treaty.
What? Here's Article 2:
Article 2
Scope
1. This Treaty shall apply to all conventional arms within the following
categories:
(a) Battle tanks;
(b) Armoured combat vehicles;
(c) Large-calibre artillery systems;
(d) Combat aircraft;
(e) Attack helicopters;
(f) Warships;
(g) Missiles and missile launchers; and
(h) Small arms and light weapons.
2. For the purposes of this Treaty, the activities of the international trade
comprise export, import, transit, trans-shipment and brokering, hereafter referred to
as “transfer”.
3. This Treaty shall not apply to the international movement of conventional arms
by, or on behalf of, a State Party for its use provided that the conventional arms
remain under that State Party’s ownership
You may notice that it doesn't say anything about "The right to own, buy, sell, trade, or transfer all means of armed resistance, including handguns, is denied to civilians" in that section.
Quote:
• Article 3 places the “ammunition/munitions fired, launched or delivered by the conventional arms covered under Article 2” within the scope of the treaty’s prohibitions, as well.
Prohibitions? Actually it just says there should be a system to regulate exports. Hardly a prohibition.
Article 3
Ammunition/Munitions
Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system to
regulate the export of ammunition/munitions fired, launched or delivered by the
conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1), and shall apply the provisions of
Article 6 and Article 7 prior to authorizing the export of such
ammunition/munitions
Go read the entire thing instead of getting a bunch of misinterpretations that originated from info wars, godlike productions, and other sites that cater to people without basic reading comprehension or critical thinking skills. Then, decide if you want to fret about it.

https://unoda-web.s3.amazonaws.com/w...6/English7.pdf

It's funny none of the sites cherry pick these statements from it:
Reaffirming the sovereign right of any State to regulate and control
conventional arms exclusively within its territory, pursuant to its own legal or
constitutional system,

and
Mindful of the legitimate trade and lawful ownership, and use of certain
conventional arms for recreational, cultural, historical, and sporting activities, where
such trade, ownership and use are permitted or protected by law,

Last edited by Jorg Nysgerrig; November 12, 2014 at 01:51 PM.
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Old November 12, 2014, 01:44 PM   #3
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They are going to regulate my ability to own an attack helicopter? This is too far!
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Old November 12, 2014, 01:59 PM   #4
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We flogged the stupid exagerations on this months ago and NOTHING has changed since it was signed at the time. Lying liers are gonna lie to get people to swallow their lies (in spite of the fact that fact checking is pretty easy).
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Old November 12, 2014, 01:59 PM   #5
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I'm gonna miss the Battle Tanks .....


Uh...doesn't this has to be ratified by Congress...or something like that?
.
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Old November 12, 2014, 02:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
They are going to regulate my ability to own an attack helicopter? This is too far!
I know right?! And armored combat vehicles? Who's to say I don't want to import an armored peace keeping vehicle? Will they stop that?

Seriously though, even though our congress critters would have to approve it for it to mean anything here, all these laws could definitely screw up what we import in. Might mean more manufacturing business in the U.S. but certain things would be lost (that companies won't bother to reproduce).
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Old November 12, 2014, 02:10 PM   #7
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i'd feel a little better if it was amended as follows

Quote:
Mindful of the legitimate trade and lawful ownership, and use of certain
conventional arms for disposal of tyrants, or recreational, cultural, historical, and sporting activities, where
such trade, ownership and use are permitted or protected by law,
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Old November 12, 2014, 02:10 PM   #8
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You know, I just paid off my student loan debt last December, and I've been saving heavily for a new warship. I thought I could live on it....... two birds with one stone.

But now I have to buy a house like everyone else?!?!?!?!
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Old November 12, 2014, 02:14 PM   #9
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Dammit...I had just got my ski tower and fishing seats mounted on my wolf class sub...it did have the best fish finder I have ever seen too...
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Old November 12, 2014, 02:22 PM   #10
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Anybody see a definition of Small arms and light weapons?


#3 This Treaty shall not apply to the international movement of conventional arms
by, or on behalf of, a State Party for its use provided that the conventional arms
remain under that State Party’s ownership.

Looks to me like everything is hunky-dorry as long as the STATE PARTY owns the guns.

No provision for private ownership is mentioned.
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:01 PM   #11
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1 - I'm not part of the UN and don't care
B) This is hyperbole anyway
III. Who will enforce this imaginary nonsense? (I can always use another blue colander)
Fourth: Stop spreading glurge, folks
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:07 PM   #12
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"...is denied to civilians..." You really need to understand that the Third World Debating Club has no mandate nor jurisdiction to make laws for anybody, including member states. And do you really think a Republican Congress will ratify anything King Obama has done?
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:24 PM   #13
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I wouldn't be turning a blind eye to this and excusing it so quickly. The UN has an agenda and it's not a Pro Gun organization. The words used here are very subjective and joking about it's intentions is childish.


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Last edited by NOMI WASP; November 12, 2014 at 03:30 PM.
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:34 PM   #14
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Disunirregardless of any versus no impact on civilian arms, I simply dislike the precedent.

Sorry about that.
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:35 PM   #15
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Nobody cares what UN says.
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:39 PM   #16
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Quote:
I wouldn't be turning a blind eye to this and excusing it so quickly.
Please share your insights on how we should act regarding this treaty and how it is going to affect us. Please use actually facts rather than random conjecture from conspiracy sites.

Quote:
The words used here are very subjective and joking about it's intentions is childish.
Perhaps the people here are just tired of this coming up constantly for the last few years with nothing more than vague pronouncements from nut jobs saying that it is going to ban all guns in the US.
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Old November 12, 2014, 03:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Go read the entire thing instead of getting a bunch of misinterpretations that originated from info wars, godlike productions, and other sites that cater to people without basic reading comprehension or critical thinking skills.

Guys like Alex Jones depend on folks accepting their word as gospel and spreading it all over the web. Kind of like a bunch of illiterate kids in a Pakistani madrassa, parroting their imam as he recites his version of the holy book.

i can't understand why folks refuse to read the treaty. It's an easy read.


http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/home/
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Old November 12, 2014, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorg Nysgerrig View Post
Please share your insights on how we should act regarding this treaty and how it is going to affect us. Please use actually facts rather than random conjecture from conspiracy sites.


Perhaps the people here are just tired of this coming up constantly for the last few years with nothing more than vague pronouncements from nut jobs saying that it is going to ban all guns in the US.
Maybe you should research the word subjective and that will help you better understand my statement. The fact is, no one knows how it will affect us.

Let me put it to you this way. When a Soverignty nation signs anything giving influence to outside powers, you shouldn't discount the agenda it holds.
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Old November 12, 2014, 04:24 PM   #19
Jorg Nysgerrig
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As expected, you have no insight into the actual ramifications of the treaty and are reacting to the fact such a thing exists.
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Old November 12, 2014, 04:44 PM   #20
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I think this sounds like it's aimed at military arms trading however I don't like it.

I don''t think it can be enforced on an effective level due to the fact that powerful countries will just ignore and circumvent it whenever they find it convenient.

What it does do is make less powerful countries vulnerable to enforced disarmament whether they are good or bad depending on if the more powerful countries determine their sovreignty to be illegitimate and classifies their fighting forces as civilians.

How will this effect a good government that is fighting a guerrila war after getting overthrown by tyrants who are promising financial explotation to more powerful countries
that are supporting them.

Will the new tyranny be declared a new legitamate government and the good guys declared civilians and subject to be forcefully disarmed ?

Maybe someone can explain ?
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Old November 12, 2014, 05:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
...this sounds like it's aimed at military arms trading...
And what do you think the antis call the AKs and ARs and M1s (etc.) that many of us already own?
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Old November 12, 2014, 05:22 PM   #22
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Yes it does seem include small arms and my understanding is that can be anything from a single shot liberater pop gun to a full fledged 50 cal machine gun.

It still seems be aimed at controlling what is supplied to armies rather than individuals. I will give you this though I don't see any safeguards built into it to prevent it from being used to adversely affect legal gun owners.

Last edited by grter; November 12, 2014 at 05:27 PM.
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Old November 12, 2014, 05:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan View Post
Nobody cares what UN says.
Tell that to the states about to get meddled with in regards to their respective state laws....

Pot, firearms, taxes, immigration, air quality, wetlands.... No end to the number of ways different functionaries within the UN have tried to get their regulatory fingers in our pie.

Remember that seemingly innocuous rules and regulations are merely carefully placed stepping stones for the average socialist/progressive/liberal/communist in getting where they really want to go. Just look at the direction of the stepping stones to get a hint at the desired destination.

We mock the application of attack helicopters, warships and tanks but they really are merely extreme extensions of the basic firearm and once the treaty is in place - do you really think they'll let it stand unmolested and modified?

Don't get twitchy, Americans, this addendum only relates to cannon...
Automatic cannon
Heavy machine gun
Machine gun - some legally owned and traded in the U.S.
Sniper systems
"Assault weapons"
Rifles
Handguns
Shotguns


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0IW1GV20141112
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Old November 12, 2014, 05:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOMI WASP View Post
I wouldn't be turning a blind eye to this and excusing it so quickly. The UN has an agenda and it's not a Pro Gun organization. The words used here are very subjective and joking about it's intentions is childish.


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Old November 12, 2014, 05:30 PM   #25
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I would be careful using the words ever.

It's spirit looks good intentioned but I believe it can be misinterpreted, and I don't even like it if it's used in it's spirit since civilian armies can also be good guys that should be armed.
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