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Old December 3, 2014, 07:53 PM   #1
horsemen61
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Question on my friends thinking?

My friend carries a glock 42 for ccw and he loads it with 6 different brands of hollow points and the last round is a flat nose fmj I tried explaining to him that he should stick with one brand but he insists on doing it his way what do y'all think good idea or no?
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Old December 3, 2014, 07:55 PM   #2
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If it works for him and he has verified all those brands work to his standard of reliability, then why not?
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Old December 3, 2014, 07:56 PM   #3
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What is his reasoning or does he have any?
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Old December 3, 2014, 08:00 PM   #4
horsemen61
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I'm not 100 percent on his reasoning behind it but when asked he claimed that if one brand failed the next would work. Oneounceload how will that look in court is a concern of mine just looking at all the details is all.
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:07 PM   #5
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By the same reasoning, if the first one doesn't work, what makes him think the next 5 will?
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:10 PM   #6
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That's just silly and based on no objective information.

Do police do this? No.

Do armies do this? No. Spec Ops? No.

Private security? No.

No one that regularly goes in harms way does this. Not even if they can afford to.
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:12 PM   #7
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He is more likely to miss because of different recoil, flash, etc.

But only HP & FP?

I go this way!
Gotta have a shotshell for the first shot to distract them snakes!

image.jpg

But seriously.
This is a VERY BAD idea!

rc
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:25 PM   #8
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I gotta agree with everyone else here. If unsure about JHP performance, I simply default to FMJ, not juggle between a half dozen or more "maybe" rounds. Federal HP and hardball are hard to go wrong with in a .45acp.
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:26 PM   #9
Walkalong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hso View Post
That's just silly and based on no objective information.

Do police do this? No.

Do armies do this? No. Spec Ops? No.

Private security? No.

No one that regularly goes in harms way does this. Not even if they can afford to.
That's about it.
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:41 PM   #10
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Only Sandmen and Street Judges carry different kinds of ammo.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:00 PM   #11
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Why would there be any legal ramifications as he is using factory ammo. No different than where from las who carry revolvers might carry two types in the same cylinder.
While I agree it seems silly, if it works for him and gives a certain level of confidence, then that is what matters
As to different recoil levels making him miss, if the bullet weights and speeds are the same, that shouldn't be a concern
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsemen61 View Post
Oneounceload how will that look in court is a concern of mine just looking at all the details is all.
Here we go with this nonsense again.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:11 PM   #13
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Would make for one heck of confused shooting investigation, guy must of been shot by six different people all firing only one round based on the casings found at the scene.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
I gotta agree with everyone else here. If unsure about JHP performance, I simply default to FMJ
But you see, if JHP fails to expand.
It Is FMJ, in all respects.

If it does expand, even a little?

It is the better round, every time.

rc
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:17 PM   #15
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I was referring more to reliability issues, but you are correct. If a JHP fails to expand, it sure isn't going to shrink.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:21 PM   #16
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That technique used to be called "Dutch Loading," if I recall.

When wandering afield, I used to have a shot round come around first in a revolver.

Nowadays, I chamber a Golden Sabre in my DAO auto and the rest in the mag another HP type which is proven to cycle reliably in this gun. The reason is the Golden Sabres are too expensive right now to run enough of them through the gun to prove their reliability. Thus, the first round (Golden Sabre) is already chambered and doesn't have to feed.

In my .45 1911, there's a similar situation. The first mag is full of "usually-reliable" 200gr hollow points, the spare mag is full of "always-reliable" 230gr ball rounds.

To go against the consensus so far, I don't think "Dutch Loads" are so crazy as a lot of people think, and I too agree with the point that they're all commercially available ammo and therefore using Dutch Loads would probably not be considered "bloodthirsty" to a reasonable person.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsemen61
but he insists on doing it his way what do y'all think good idea or no?
I think that it is a silly practice, but if it makes him feel more confident <shrug>
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:23 PM   #18
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What are "sandmen" and "street judges"?

About the bullets: I've heard of alternating JHPs with FMJs, so that if expansion doesn't occur, perhaps a pneumothorax will. But six different types of hollow points?

Perhaps his reasoning is, that it is less likely that ALL 6 different hollow points, each from a different manufacturer will fail to expand, while 6 hollow points, all made by one manufacturer, will likely have similar structural integrity, and if one of that lot won't expand, then it's more likely others from the same lot won't expand, either. I don't necessarily AGREE with that reasoning, but I can see it as plausible.

If he's down to using a .380 for defense, then expansion may be all that'll save him. It's not like a .45, where darn near any factory load that reliably operates the slide will probably work just fine.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
What are "sandmen" and "street judges"?
Fictional law enforcement groups who carry guns with selectable ammo.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:44 PM   #20
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Wow... I REALLY AM old...
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:50 PM   #21
jerkface11
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Logan's run was published in 1967. So I don't think you can use age as an excuse lol.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsemen61 View Post
I'm not 100 percent on his reasoning behind it but when asked he claimed that if one brand failed the next would work .
In a situation where he needs it to protect himself, if the first one doesn't work, it's highly unlikely he'll get the chance to try #2.

Ask him what he plans to do to stave off his attacker while he's trying to eject one round and rack in another.
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmodel View Post
But you see, if JHP fails to expand.
It Is FMJ, in all respects.

If it does expand, even a little?

It is the better round, every time.

rc
But what if it expands and doesn't have the penetration to finish the job?
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Old December 3, 2014, 10:58 PM   #24
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If he is basing his thinking off of improving the likelihood that a different brand bullet is more likely to work if another brand fails, that is just statistically incorrect. Each round is an independent sample. Assuming each are of equivalent quality and reliability, then they all have equivalent chances of firing. And if you know ahead of time that one is less likely to fire, then it shouldn't be in the gun.
If he is basing his thinking on one round in the magazine showing improved expansion characteristics than the others, then he must be planning to shoot the entire magazine whether he needs to or not. That will impress people reviewing the shoot. And if he doesn't shoot it all, then his theory, which is incorrect anyway is flawed. Again, research the reliability and expansion info and pick one.
Pick one and train with it because, as noted, each of these will have slightly different POI versus POA. Does it matter much? Probably not. Because he is likely less accurate than the variance in the rounds he chooses (assumption here, but if he loads this way it's a good bet).
Finally, that no other professional shooter does this is a big clue.
To the extent that it's his life, his gun, and his attorney, he has the right to do this or anything like this. But is it wise? Clearly not.
B
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Old December 3, 2014, 11:40 PM   #25
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I wonder if his reasoning is that he's worried if he has to shoot through light covering material? I.E. a windshield, car door, sheet rock, a house door, etc...
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