Quantcast
A modern Destroyer carbine? - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Rifle Country

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 17, 2015, 03:25 AM   #1
cluttonfred
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 11, 2008
Posts: 916
A modern Destroyer carbine?

The Spanish Destroyer carbine is in many ways the ancestor of the modern police patrol rifle--a light, low-recoil long arm with less risk of over-penetration than a full-bore rifle and far better accuracy and practical range than a pistol even when using the same cartridge.



I mentioned in another thread the idea of a modern, bolt action, pistol caliber carbine. Perhaps with a synthetic stock, optionally folding like the MAS36 CR39, 16" barrel, good protected peep sights like Tech Sights plus a scope rail, common pistol magazines, say Glock G26/27/30 10-rounders in 9mm/.40S&W/.45ACP which allows the larger size Glock mags if you have the urge? Keep everything light and handy, say a loaded weight under 5 lbs? Maybe a slick, short-throw, simplified Lee-Enfield action, cock on closing, for rapid fire?

With careful design only the magazine well, barrel and bolt face would have to change between different caliber versions to keep the cost down. Perhaps a stock "empty" magazine well could be fitted with different adapters to allow other types of magazines such as Colt 1911 .45 ACP. The result would be similar to, but hopefully much cheaper than, the British Armalon carbines.



I think one of these would be great fun at the range and could do double duty as a truck gun or even for home defense. Aside from the current ammo craziness, pistol ammo is usually cheaper than rifle ammo, and many pistol ranges will allow pistol caliber carbines which is a big plus for urban/suburban gun owners looking for a place to shoot. What do you think? Any interest in something like that?
__________________
(I was formerly "owlnmole" but it's still me.)

"Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"
--Mae West as Lady Lou in "She Done Him Wrong"

Last edited by cluttonfred; January 17, 2015 at 04:51 AM.
cluttonfred is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:49 AM   #2
4thPointOfContact
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 13, 2007
Posts: 632
Probably never
Once you've solved the feeding problem (Hey! we can use pistol magazines!!) it's just too easy to go ahead and use either blowback or locked action in a semi-auto. The only non-auto PCC's these days are lever actions.
4thPointOfContact is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 07:50 AM   #3
Fredericianer
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 14, 2010
Location: Denmark
Posts: 75
Don't/didn't Remington offer their model 700 in .44 Magnum? Wouldn't that fit the bill pretty well too?
Fredericianer is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 09:37 AM   #4
Radagast
Contributing Member
 
 
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: Australia/OZ
Posts: 5,468
Ruger make a 5 shot .357 magnum bolt action.
http://www.ruger.com/products/rotary...57/models.html
__________________
$25 a year to keep The High Road on line AND block adds? Bargain!
Become a contributing member today!
http://www.thehighroad.org/payments.php
Radagast is online now  
Old January 17, 2015, 09:37 AM   #5
cluttonfred
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 11, 2008
Posts: 916
I don't know about the 700, but there are aleady the Ruger 77/357 and 77/44 in revolver calibers. I was thinking that auto pistol calibers would be nice, too.
__________________
(I was formerly "owlnmole" but it's still me.)

"Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"
--Mae West as Lady Lou in "She Done Him Wrong"
cluttonfred is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 12:09 PM   #6
roadchoad
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 363
Wouldn't it be great if there was an easy to build and well supported center fire platform other than an AR? I could see a short action receiver with easily swappable bolts and barrels, mags with a standard outside shape but internals for different calibers. Or maybe bolt on adapters to use readily available magazines. D&T for a rail on top for optics, iron sights could follow the barrels. Like a TC contender, but bolt action.
roadchoad is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 12:42 PM   #7
jmr40
Member
 
 
Join Date: May 26, 2007
Posts: 7,751
Quote:
light, low-recoil long arm with less risk of over-penetration than a full-bore rifle and far better accuracy and practical range than a pistol even when using the same cartridge.

This is solved with the carbine length AR's. The 223/5.56 is proven to penetrate less than pistol rounds with much better performance. Pistol caliber carbines for the most part are on the way out. The levers in magnum pistol calibers fill a niche, but none of the semi's do anymore.

There are the Ruger bolt guns in 357 and 44 mag for hunters who are restricted to such rounds for hunting too.
jmr40 is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 01:02 PM   #8
roadchoad
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 363
There is more to life than ARs. please don't turn this thread into a mess like the last one.
roadchoad is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 02:47 PM   #9
maxxhavoc
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 8, 2008
Posts: 283
I have a near-junk Chinese Mauser that has rusted enough in the barrel and receiver that I would never shoot 8mm in it. The stock is toast as well. It was given to me by a friend who had no use for it.

I am going to build one of these around the action
http://www.troupsystems.com/MAUSER/m...onversions.htm
maxxhavoc is online now  
Old January 17, 2015, 02:51 PM   #10
Inebriated
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 25, 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 3,077
jmr's comment applies to bolt guns too... 5.56 is a very good cartridge for stopping people without over penetrating, and the 5.56 cartridge weighs the same as a 9mm cartridge.
Inebriated is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:03 PM   #11
TestPilot
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 5, 2006
Posts: 873
Bolt action rifle? NO.

There is only one proper situation for use for bolt-action rifle: Stand off distance.

What you're suggesting may be a fun low-recoil recreation rifle, but it is in no way suited for duty unless the personnel involved somehow knows that he or she will always fight in some sort of stand off situation, and even then it will be a problem when the opponent is behind a glass or light barrier.
TestPilot is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:04 PM   #12
VVelox
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 17, 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 279
If we are going to be designing it today, why bother to make it a bolt action? Personally I think blowback AR is the modern decedent. I really like mine in 9mm.
VVelox is online now  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:14 PM   #13
earlthegoat2
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 28, 2008
Location: Lowcountry
Posts: 4,405
Marlin camp carbines.....
__________________
Someone will always know more than you...unless your on the internet. Then everyone knows more than you.

The Snubby Revolver by Ed Lovette
earlthegoat2 is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:14 PM   #14
rondog
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 29, 2007
Location: Commurado
Posts: 6,013
I'll stick with my M1 carbines, thank you.
__________________
Ever feel like the world's a tuxedo, and you're a pair of brown shoes?
- George Gobel
rondog is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:33 PM   #15
VVelox
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 17, 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 279
The M1 Carbine is awesome, but there is no one still making them or replacement parts. There are a few companies that ones they market as them, but they only visually look like one and have very very different internals.
VVelox is online now  
Old January 17, 2015, 03:48 PM   #16
rondog
Member
 
 
Join Date: June 29, 2007
Location: Commurado
Posts: 6,013
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/Firearm...nce-AOM130.asp
__________________
Ever feel like the world's a tuxedo, and you're a pair of brown shoes?
- George Gobel
rondog is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 04:32 PM   #17
VVelox
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 17, 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 279
Rondog, well it looks like I was wrong. I though that was one of the clones that used a pistol like action instead of a gas operated one.
VVelox is online now  
Old January 17, 2015, 04:46 PM   #18
WestKentucky
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 1, 2014
Posts: 2,307
As neat as it sounds I would far prefer the same calibers be put onto a 410 double barrel frame for a fun, light double rifle. Extremely simple, very useful, very fun. Hell, make it in revolver and pistol cartridges with interchangeable barrels. It won't happen but I wish do much that it would. I don't have the mechanical ability to fabricate such a critter either or I would.
__________________
Spellchecker and autocorrect is ran by anti-gun people who think that a "hi-point" should be "hip ointment" and a "parabellum" is a "parable lump" and so forth. Please excuse idiotic things that the electronics think I said that I never said. http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/
WestKentucky is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 04:56 PM   #19
dprice3844444
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 26, 2011
Location: se fla i love claymores 01/sot
Posts: 4,264
enfield 45 acp kit
http://www.specialinterestarms.com/i...ld_conversions
dprice3844444 is online now  
Old January 17, 2015, 05:01 PM   #20
DT Guy
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 23, 2003
Posts: 1,059
I think if someone made a reliable, otherwise authentic M-1 carbine in 9MM, I'd have to buy it. I know Chiappa has one out, but the reviews scare me..



Larry
__________________
Government, Anarchy and Chaos
DT Guy is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 05:05 PM   #21
johnnydollar
Member
 
 
Join Date: September 7, 2011
Posts: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadchoad View Post
There is more to life than ARs. please don't turn this thread into a mess like the last one.
Hear! Hear!
__________________
"In a world of compromise, some men don't." HK ad slogan from the '80's.
johnnydollar is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 05:20 PM   #22
BCRider
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 15, 2008
Location: Pacific North"Wet" Coast of Canada
Posts: 6,685
Let's face the facts. Time has moved on since the Spanish thought this was a good idea. These days handgun ammo in a manually cycled gun just is not something that any military or law enforcement groups are going to consider. It would be comparable to the Spanish back then giving up their Destroyers for cap lock muzzle loaders.

So that leaves us with guns of this sort being just a product for sport and hobbyist shooters. And given the mass market focus on AR style military looking rifles in 5.56 the remaining market that wants semi auto pistol caliber guns is a splinter group of relatively small size. And already many of those are just putting new uppers on their black rifle lowers.

This pistol caliber carbine market is then going to be further split by the fact that there's a good supply of used and new semi auto carbines out there.

And let's face facts again. MOST folks that are looking for a gun to shoot semi auto pistol ammo will want the carbine to shoot in semi auto mode. So the group looking for a manual repeater style gun is going to be rather scarce. And a dozen or so folks in a thread like this saying "I want one! ! !" is not the sort of thing that fills a maker with confidence.

And that would be why there isn't already such a rifle on the shelves.

For those of us that want to shoot something of this sort I suspect that there is enough old Destroyers in decent enough shape to fill this niche.
__________________
Sent from my boat anchor desktop via my pizza greased fingers....
BCRider is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 05:41 PM   #23
bearcreek
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 4, 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlnmole View Post

I think one of these would be great fun at the range and could do double duty as a truck gun or even for home defense.

What do you think? Any interest in something like that?
Not for a home defense gun. Can't imagine why anyone would choose a bolt action for home defense. I do think there would be a market for more bolt action PCR's, primarily in states where they are allowed for deer hunting. Here in Ohio we just got certain PCR's legalized for deer this year. I know they're legal in Indiana as well and I would think at least a couple other states. As far as I know the only bolt action options available are the Ruger 77/44 and 77/357. Be nice to see a few more available out there at a lower price bracket.
__________________
Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.
-- From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.
bearcreek is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 05:47 PM   #24
WestKentucky
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 1, 2014
Posts: 2,307
In a blowback the hip ointment guns would be a good option, but the stocks are utter garbage. If they shoot well though it would be nice...mine shot crazy though, like it was throwing a screwball. It went right a bit out to about 30 yards then back to the left. If it had shot better I would have kept it. With a aftermarket stock it felt and looked good, but still shot crazy.
__________________
Spellchecker and autocorrect is ran by anti-gun people who think that a "hi-point" should be "hip ointment" and a "parabellum" is a "parable lump" and so forth. Please excuse idiotic things that the electronics think I said that I never said. http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/
WestKentucky is offline  
Old January 17, 2015, 06:05 PM   #25
Corn-Picker
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 1, 2013
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadchoad View Post
Wouldn't it be great if there was an easy to build and well supported center fire platform other than an AR? I could see a short action receiver with easily swappable bolts and barrels, mags with a standard outside shape but internals for different calibers. Or maybe bolt on adapters to use readily available magazines. D&T for a rail on top for optics, iron sights could follow the barrels. Like a TC contender, but bolt action.
A T/C Dimension

I have one, it's one of the most accurate rifles I own. AFAIK, no one other than T/C makes barrels, and only in the more common rifle rounds (204 ruger through 300 win mag). I'm hoping (but skeptical) that the Dimension catches on, barrel changes are a five minute job and it returns right to zero after installing the barrel.

For HD I'd buy a PS90. Low recoil, super compact, lightweight, not too much noise/flash, 50 rounds on board, useable by my wife, and 420+ ft-lbs from the 16" barrel.
Corn-Picker is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.