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Old November 2, 2014, 12:53 AM   #51
JohnKSa
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Quote:
I've got a classic Beeman 17 cal air rifle that shoots 8 grain pellets at about 500 fps.
Pellets guns that shoot .22caliber pellets at 1000fps or177 caliber pellets at speeds approaching 1400fps are now widely and inexpensively available.

Here's one that comes with a scope and illuminator and still has an MSRP under $300.

http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?...&productID=386

Here's one that comes with a scope and has an MSRP under $500. The manufacturer claims 1650fps with lead-free pellets.

http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?...&productID=463
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Old November 2, 2014, 12:55 AM   #52
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Just this year a young Marine was hit by a pellet while driving up the highway from Cherry Point. A fraction in either direction and hr could have either lost his life or been paralyzed. As it is he had to leave the Corps because of were the pellet is logged. Two of the teenagers are being charged as adults the other three as juveniles. It is a sobering thought, this is the same road my wife and I used to travel to work for years.
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Old November 2, 2014, 01:19 AM   #53
jmorris
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I have pushed a 14.3 g 22 cal pellet to over 2100 fps, 133 ft/lb of energy. Does more damage to 1/8" steel than a .22lr will.

Just because it's a pellet doesn't mean it has no power.
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Old November 2, 2014, 01:45 AM   #54
Berger.Fan222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
I have pushed a 14.3 g 22 cal pellet to over 2100 fps, 133 ft/lb of energy. Does more damage to 1/8" steel than a .22lr will.

Just because it's a pellet doesn't mean it has no power.
Sure, but you're probably launching them from a 22 LR with blanks or nail gun cartridges. With enough power behind it, 14 grain pellets can do real damage.

Certainly, all air rifles need due respect regarding the gun safety rules and not pointing them at humans. But the odds of a lethal hit on wild animals at pellet velocities below 800 fps are very low.

If the goal is scaring away wolfs in the livestock or varmints in the garden, then low velocity air rifles can be expected to do the job with very small risk of lethality.
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Old November 2, 2014, 02:34 PM   #55
JohnKSa
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If the goal is scaring away wolfs in the livestock or varmints in the garden, then low velocity air rifles can be expected to do the job with very small risk of lethality.
I strongly disagree with the use of any metallic projectile airgun as a deterrent.

It is true that lower powered airguns are unlikely to be lethal on a decent sized animal, however that doesn't, in my opinion, equate to being a humane solution as a non-lethal deterrent. Even a lower powered airgun can cause significant penetration, certainly enough to cause a serious and/or permanent injury depending on the variables involved.

Metallic projectile airguns have a lot of legitimate uses, but in my opinion, using them to scare off animals by shooting them is not one of them.
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Old November 2, 2014, 03:56 PM   #56
Berger.Fan222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
Metallic projectile airguns have a lot of legitimate uses, but in my opinion, using them to scare off animals by shooting them is not one of them.
And that is absolutely your decision to make if it is YOUR livestock or YOUR crops at risk. I hope you would not be judgmental on someone making a different decision to protect THEIR livestock or THEIR crops.

Certainly in cases where lethal force is justified, I would have a hard time objecting to application of force that is most likely to be non-lethal.
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Old November 3, 2014, 01:34 AM   #57
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And that is absolutely your decision to make if it is YOUR livestock or YOUR crops at risk. I hope you would not be judgmental on someone making a different decision to protect THEIR livestock or THEIR crops.
Actually, I would. I would have no problem whatsoever with these hypothetical persons using lethal means to protect their livestock or crops from depredating animals but in my opinion, it is inhumane to intentionally wound an animal by shooting it with a metallic projectile airgun--just as it would be to intentionally wound an animal by attempting to inflict a non-lethal wound with a firearm.
Quote:
Certainly in cases where lethal force is justified, I would have a hard time objecting to application of force that is most likely to be non-lethal.
I would have no problem with applying non-lethal force that didn't have a high potential for causing serious injury or permanent wounds in a situation like that, but in my opinion, metallic projectile airguns have no legitimate place as a non-lethal deterrent for the simple reason that they are likely to cause a serious injury to the animal.

It's one thing to attempt to kill an animal that is causing property damage, it's another thing entirely to intentionally send it running with a hole in it that is unlikely to kill it but certain to cause extended suffering.

Intentional wounding is not an ethical deterrent in my opinion. Non-lethal deterrent methods should be chosen so that they have a very low potential for causing actual injury. If no such means can be reasonably applied it is, in my opinion, far more humane to simply kill the animal.
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Last edited by JohnKSa; November 3, 2014 at 02:15 AM.
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Old November 3, 2014, 08:35 AM   #58
fpgt72
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So many ways to go with this. FPS sells air guns, and most humans buy them from wally world and not PA, or Arizona.

Second, while yes that 1400fps with alloy pellets will not hit paper at 10 yards, put a nice heavy pellet in there, slow that sucker down to the upper 900's and it shoots very nice and very accurate. Something most Gamo bashers don't understand. They are actually good guns, most say made in Spain on them, unlike half of your cork sniffing brands that come from china.

If you want to scare away a critter get a red rider. Here the deer are so tame, I could hit them in the side with a thrown ice cube and they still would just wonder out of ice cube range. Red Rider I can arc that pellet quite a distance....and even if you never hit it, the sound of it hitting the ground will generally spook them.

Generally once you get to 9mm they are not pellets any longer they are bullets. So there is that.

No 22 air rifle will come close to 22lr in power....not yet anyway, and if it does you run into that problem with pellets not being shaped to give good accurate results once you start getting them up to super sonic levels. And I think we are a ways off from an air gun tossing a 40grain pellet as sub sonic levels. It will happen sure, but not for a while....and who knows what the culture will be at that time.

As to the kitty, personally I hate cats....but I would be knocking on your neighbors door, unless you are not controlling your animal and it is pooping in their flower box. One thing I hate more then shooting a pet is irresponsible pet owners, and that includes cat people, you want to let it run wild at night because it is a "cat" well guess what if it is in my chickens and killing my livestock it is getting a bullet in its head pet or not. Be a responsible pet owner.
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Old November 3, 2014, 10:50 AM   #59
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If you want to scare away a critter get a red rider.
You'll shoot it's eye out.
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Old November 3, 2014, 03:17 PM   #60
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Wow there are some folks on here that scare me with their comments regarding the use of airguns. All I will say is this, children learn by watching their parents, that includes safe handling of firearms or pellet guns. While an adult may be able to successfully handle the responsibility of how to properly use an air-gun and may understand the difference between a "Real Gun" and a pellet gun, a child may not be so skilled. Please be careful of the example you set.

http://abclocal.go.com/story?section...cal&id=8942960

http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-pa...gun-in-acreage

"Neighbors in the Tollhouse community cannot believe a pellet gun could be capable of killing a child.

Deputies at the scene confirmed that the boy was shot with a pellet gun at close range, and the projectile traveled right into his chest."


http://www.kmph-kfre.com/story/20509...-by-pellet-gun
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Last edited by Master Blaster; November 3, 2014 at 03:26 PM.
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Old November 3, 2014, 09:06 PM   #61
raubvogel
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This site claims the larger caliber pellet rifles can go through a piece of 2" douglas fir. More on his discussion is in http://www.topairgun.com/faq
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Old November 4, 2014, 08:34 AM   #62
fpgt72
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There is no doubt that a pellet gun can KILL a person, no doubt in my mind at all.

They are a great way to start teaching your kids about safety, and one shot into that 2x4 is usually enough to show them the power of the average walmart air gun.

Same rules apply it is a gun, one reason I hate the airsoft world so much....teaches all the wrong lessons....ALL OF THEM....

I really think if someone shot at me during an airsoft "game" I would go just nutz.
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Old November 7, 2014, 01:07 AM   #63
ChaoSS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berger.Fan222 View Post
And that is absolutely your decision to make if it is YOUR livestock or YOUR crops at risk. I hope you would not be judgmental on someone making a different decision to protect THEIR livestock or THEIR crops.

Certainly in cases where lethal force is justified, I would have a hard time objecting to application of force that is most likely to be non-lethal.
I certainly would. If lethal force is justified, then use lethal force. If lethal force is not justified, paintballs from a slingshot do wonders for running off nuisance animals that you don't want to kill.


BTW, an 8 grain pellet moving at 500 fps will not bounce off of a squirrel. It may very well bounce off of the wooden branch that you hit when you missed the squirrel.
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