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Old April 24, 2014, 09:44 AM   #51
JRH6856
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Perhaps we are all spoiled by firearms made with more precision than is necessary for basic functionality? Most of the firearms of the early 20th century were made with more precision and attention to detail than was really necessary (I think Peter Paul Mauser had a lot to do with that ). With people using 3D printers to print almost complete firearms from plastic, I'm sure there is a lot of reevaluating going on regarding just how much precision engineering and metallurgy a firearm really needs.
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Old April 24, 2014, 10:51 AM   #52
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Remington is probably conforming to the maxim "Perfect is the enemy of good enough". Only they misjudged what is good enough. Let us hope they have the commitment to find a way to ensure the consumer and Remington's accountants agree on what is good enough.
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Old April 24, 2014, 11:35 AM   #53
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From the way it sounds, it may be an issue of Remington just polishing some of the parts before putting them into the frame. I truly hope that someone from Remington views threads like this and institutes those changes before more are released . . . . . and probably given a bad report on. It really IS in their best interest, else more and more will pass on it.
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Old April 24, 2014, 12:44 PM   #54
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For sure they need better drill bits than even polishing
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Old April 24, 2014, 05:21 PM   #55
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It's a lot more than polishing. That trigger was nasty!
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Old April 24, 2014, 07:29 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxie View Post
It's a lot more than polishing. That trigger was nasty!
Seems to be a bit of variance in the trigger. Mine, out of the box, is as good as my BHP after some trigger work (except for the side wobble, which, though annoying that it is there, doesnt't really affect anything).
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Old April 24, 2014, 09:01 PM   #57
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The most likely cause for a bum trigger would be the side of the trigger pivoting into the sharp edges of the frame opening. Second would possibly be burs on the disco rails and stirrup scraping, third the safety not being dropped sufficiently to fully clear the hammer stop and sear. I'd check the sides of your trigger for gnarly wear.

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Old April 24, 2014, 09:10 PM   #58
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Reportedly the latest word from Remington

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7fNAusFyow

A recall may be in the future ?

Last edited by draidt; April 24, 2014 at 09:36 PM.
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Old April 24, 2014, 09:32 PM   #59
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Great work!

It is pretty sad when we as end users have to do stuff like detail strip a new gun in order to try and figure out what problems Remington couldn't or wouldn't work out at the factory in design/production/finishing of the R51.

This gun was on my "must buy" list at the start of 2014 but now, with all the negative reports, I am staying far and away from it at least till they start to fix them. There are far too many awesome guns out there that are trustworthy, reliable and proven that deserve my money more. JMHO.

YMMV.
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Old April 24, 2014, 10:16 PM   #60
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Holy MIM in a sack! I knew the trigger was bad, but can't they at least design a fixture to EDM or drill the darned trigger pivot hole?

Disconnector is pressed/stamped, correct? I wonder if they do any machining on it after it is stamped?
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Old April 25, 2014, 12:33 AM   #61
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"It is pretty sad when we as end users have to do stuff like detail strip a new gun in order to try and figure out what problems..."

I didn't have to do anything; my gun works (mostly) just fine already. I'd have taken it apart so long as its insides were interesting and unknown to me. It's not slick enough to be a great piece in my mind, sure, but it runs well enough for range work, if not CCW, just yet. I think addressing the chamber issue and some more wear-in will resolve the remaining problems (though it will obviously not perfect them). I just like the gun too much to tolerate the "send it back to the kitchen" crowd that can't be bothered to salt their dinner to taste (and a salty meal this is, but still...).

Remington's making it tough enough to save the R51 as it is, so why do people pile on?

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Old April 25, 2014, 08:37 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draidt View Post
Reportedly the latest word from Remington

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7fNAusFyow

A recall may be in the future ?
Well, it's the latest word from RyeonHam anyway. No official word from Remington. (What CS phone staff says may or may not mean anything.)

That said, I've seen at least one other report saying that the bolt was being redesigned to deal with the primer pimples. When I called the CS rep would talk about anything but the chamber. He wanted to avoid that subject. Read into that what you will.
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Old April 25, 2014, 08:40 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooldill
It is pretty sad when we as end users have to do stuff like detail strip a new gun in order to try and figure out what problems Remington couldn't or wouldn't work out at the factory in design/production/finishing of the R51.
Not so sad. It's the first thing some of us do with any gun we buy. Sometimes, with any thing.
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Old April 25, 2014, 12:01 PM   #64
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I am going to get one of these as soon as I think there is a reasonably good chance of getting one that is reliable enough for CCW and won't require a trip back to Remington.

By the way, thanks to you guys for a couple of great threads on this gun. They are the best on the net.

JB
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Old April 25, 2014, 01:38 PM   #65
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooldill
It is pretty sad when we as end users have to do stuff like detail strip a new gun in order to try and figure out what problems Remington couldn't or wouldn't work out at the factory in design/production/finishing of the R51.
Quote:
Not so sad. It's the first thing some of us do with any gun we buy. Sometimes, with any thing.
I beg to differ, when a company releases a gun or any product that is not ready for use and dangerous to the end user that is sad. I replaced my sent for repairs R51 with a $ 239.00 Zastva M88A 9mm I just got back from the range right out of the box went through 4 mags with not of hiccup and is accurate. I have not given up hope that the R51 will someday be what we all hoped it would be and should have been from the get go.
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Old April 25, 2014, 02:05 PM   #66
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Experiences differ., and maybe the earlier releases (0001000~0003000) had problems I don't have at 0006xxx. I know some people who have problems feel their only solution is to send the gun back. And that may well be the only solution available for some. I haven't had any issues serious enough to cause me to do that...yet. I still might, but not yet. Things have break first and my gun is not broken. I and I have yet to experience anything that would make feel it is unsafe. I think finish reaming the chamber would resolve d 90% of my issues. But I can't send the gun to Remington and expect them to do that. They will do what they want to do, not what I want done and they won't say in advance what they might do. So the gun stays with me until REmington announces a fix and if they don't, eventually I'll fix it myself.
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Old April 25, 2014, 02:12 PM   #67
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First, thank you so much! Awesome thread, awesome pics, awesome (and just comedic enough) commentary!

Would it be possible to get a picture of the top of your frame looking down at the dicconnector?

I'm interested as the shoulder that the block cams over on mine is chewed up pretty good due to burrs on the underside of the block - where the channels for the disconnector are. You can't see the burrs on mine, but you sure can see the galling and frame damage after 100 rounds. After shooting mine I tore it down and discovered the issue. The burrs aren't visible (to me) but I can find them with a fingernail. It's almost as if those slots were broached somehow... The block appears to be cast to me - then cleaned up a bit?

Here is a pic of mine:



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Old April 25, 2014, 03:01 PM   #68
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Here' mine. Looks a lot like yours. Yes, there were some burrs that needed to be cleaned up.



Front block as well

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Old April 25, 2014, 08:08 PM   #69
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My front blocks does that, too, but I think it's self limiting. The recoil spring bushing tries to tilt back over the stop under load, and rolls the edge. My rear block didn't show wear until I neglected to grease gun well and it shed some nitriding/anodizing grit. At this point I am questioning the need for such a hard slide (at least the interior) considering how soft the frame and bolt seem by comparison
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Old April 25, 2014, 09:11 PM   #70
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So, at this point does anyone have sufficient confidence in this gun to trust their life to it?

Sounds like a real loser.
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Old April 25, 2014, 09:31 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by moxie View Post
So, at this point does anyone have sufficient confidence in this gun to trust their life to it?

Sounds like a real loser.
The only gun I have that has fewer failures is a Security Six with a 6" barrel that is a little big to carry, so I would say "Yes". I know other people have had problems, but their problems are not mine.
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Old April 25, 2014, 09:40 PM   #72
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Mine is a 00019xx S.N. range gun and it's running fine. Hit the 700 round point a little while ago. I'd trust it for carry if my usual revolver broke down on me. (it's a Taurus, it might happen )
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Old April 25, 2014, 10:07 PM   #73
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"So, at this point does anyone have sufficient confidence in this gun to trust their life to it?"

Yeah...so? Obviously you don't. I doubt many folks are carrying them, simply because there aren't really holsters out there, yet, and the lack of manual redundant safety kinda requires you take care of that little detail before going around town with it. Do I trust the gun to unload a three shot burst of 5" at 10 yards if I'm doing my part faster than any of my other guns including a five-seven? Yeah...

On that note, I think the R51 in 22TCM (or better still, 5.7x28, or even better, 7.62x25) would be a game changer both defensively and competitively, since the action seems to specifically dampen the sharp initial recoil impulse found in high pressure chamberings that makes shooters prone to flinching.

TCB
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Old April 25, 2014, 10:26 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by draidt View Post
I beg to differ, when a company releases a gun or any product that is not ready for use and dangerous to the end user that is sad. I replaced my sent for repairs R51 with a $ 239.00 Zastva M88A 9mm I just got back from the range right out of the box went through 4 mags with not of hiccup and is accurate. I have not given up hope that the R51 will someday be what we all hoped it would be and should have been from the get go.
Take a lesson from original Masada/ACR fans like myself, just give up now.
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Old April 25, 2014, 10:30 PM   #75
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Quote:
there aren't really holsters out there, yet,
There are a few:

Galco makes the Stinger, nd OWB leather holster, so far, right hand only. (the gun shown in the link is NOT and R51 but I assume the holster is similar. This is disappointing because Galco committed to making this holster months before the gun was released. They had plenty of time to get the right pix up.)

Multi Holsters Makes a modular Kydex holster, IWB/OWB RH/LH adjustible cant holster. He shows it in a YouTube video

Jackson Leatherworks makes both and IWB and OWB in leather (of course).

The DeSantis Pocket-Tuk sized for the SR9 works for me. Maybe the LC9 model would fit as well, but it might be too short. This is a sueded leather holster that is not form fitted so one size fits several different guns of similar size.
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Last edited by JRH6856; April 25, 2014 at 10:47 PM.
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