Quantcast
Single Action vs. Double Action - THR
THR  

Go Back   THR > Tools and Technologies > Handguns: Revolvers

Welcome to THR
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have, access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!


If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit the help section.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 29, 2014, 12:21 AM   #1
mikemyers
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Posts: 392
Single Action vs. Double Action

The purpose of this thread is not to ask the difference between Single and Double Action (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Sin..._Double_Action). It's to ask which to use, given the choice, for target practice.

On the one hand, I've always been told that single action allows more accurate target shooting, which I fully believe. On the other hand, I just watched this very interesting video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2mfpLs_mQ

In the video, it is suggested that shooting single-action on a double action revolver isn't doing anything to help develop good trigger control.

What I'm asking here, is while I enjoy SA targets more than what I can accomplish with DA, is it better to simply ignore that, and shoot DA all the time?

(My own compromise might be to do both for dry firing, and SA at the range.)
__________________
:::M:i:k:e:::M:y:e:r:s:::
Web site: www.sgrid.com
mikemyers is online now  
Old May 29, 2014, 04:29 AM   #2
RON in PA
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 25, 2002
Location: S.E. PA, USA
Posts: 1,838
In the days when people shot one-handed bullseye target with revolvers SA was the usual method. Nowadays most shooting is two-handed and DA is the way to go. Over time you will develop excellent accuracy, concentrate on the front sight and your trigger pull should be one continuous motion with no hesitation.
__________________
I shoot, therefore I am.

Proud TFL alumnus

NRA Endowment Life Member
RON in PA is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 04:56 AM   #3
SleazyRider
Member
 
 
Join Date: February 25, 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by RON in PA View Post
In the days when people shot one-handed bullseye target with revolvers SA was the usual method. Nowadays most shooting is two-handed and DA is the way to go. Over time you will develop excellent accuracy, concentrate on the front sight and your trigger pull should be one continuous motion with no hesitation.
That is an interesting point you make, Ron, because I am from that day, and learned to shoot just as you described: single-action and one-handed. Although most of my target shooting now is done two-handed, on the two occasions when I've actually had to use a pistol defensively, it has been one-handed. (My other hand was restraining a dog.) It must be true what's been said about reverting back to one's training, because I instinctively thumb-cock my double-action revolver.

Myself, I think that double-action shooting teaches one to pull the trigger straight back without side movement, and makes a person a better single-action shooter.
__________________
No one who is young is ever going to be old.

---JOHN STEINBECK, East of Eden
SleazyRider is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 06:10 AM   #4
Steve C
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 5, 2006
Posts: 4,261
Quote:
In the days when people shot one-handed bullseye target with revolvers
What do you mean "In the days..."? Bullseye is still a well participated in sport though few use a revolver any more.

Frankly it really doesn't matter which you use for target shooting as the point of target shooting is to have some fun. Mostly it depends upon what you want to accomplish, small groups and long range or big targets with large scoring rings and fast shooting.

The principals of handgun accuracy is really the same whether you are shooting SA or DA in that you have to align the sights on the target and hold them there while you squeeze the trigger for a short pull SA or a longer pull DA until the trigger surprises you when it releases and the gun fires. If you have a single action gun be it a 1911 or a SA revolver that pretty much dictates you are going to shoot SA.

Some people only see a handgun as a means of self defense to be used for shooting other people. Others see their guns primarily as sport equipment that only coincidentally can be used for self defense if needed.

If you are in the first category then practicing DA mostly shooting large human size targets at relatively close range is probably all the practice you need. If you are in the later category then practice shooting for score on targets set at the range they where designed for is the best way to see if you are really improving. If you are a handgun hunter single action shooting with a heavy magnum at long range is more in line with the skill needs for that activity. If you have a mixture of different handguns then mix it up.
Steve C is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 06:34 AM   #5
F-111 John
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 2, 2011
Location: Holt, MI
Posts: 683
It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you wish to improve your defensive shooting accuracy, then normally you would practice double action.

If you wish to make very small groups on paper, then normally you would shoot single action.

So when you are at the range, what are you trying to accomplish? Practicing your defensive shooting, or have fun?
F-111 John is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 06:48 AM   #6
StrawHat
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 28, 2007
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,007
When I shot PPC, it was esay to spot the new guys, they were shooting SA. I know I did. It took a while but when I started to shoot DA (and practice with live fire and dry firing) my scores went up and I advanced through the stages. I still practice DA shooting.
__________________
Knowledge I take to the grave is wasted.

I don't know all the answers but I have made most of the mistakes and lived to tell about them.

www.NoonSharpening.com
StrawHat is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 07:14 AM   #7
Lucky Derby
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 23, 2006
Location: Colorado Rockies
Posts: 1,695
What Steve C said.
__________________
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement. Winston Churchill
Lucky Derby is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 08:22 AM   #8
MrBorland
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 13, 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemyers
In the video, it is suggested that shooting single-action on a double action revolver isn't doing anything to help develop good trigger control.
Theirs is a big oversimplification. It still takes plenty of trigger control to get a good SA shot off. Ask anyone who shoots bullseye with a 1911 or a precision rifle.

IMO, it's more accurate to say that DA does require good trigger control that can only be attained by DA practice, so those shooting SA most or all of the time aren't developing their DA skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemyers
What I'm asking here, is while I enjoy SA targets more than what I can accomplish with DA, is it better to simply ignore that, and shoot DA all the time?
One can be plenty accurate in DA. A good smooth action helps, as does shooting 2-handed. I shoot DA nearly exclusively, but if I were shooting formal bullseye competition (i.e. 1-handed) with a revolver, I'd likely shoot the 50 yard slow fire SA, and the rest DA.

Bottom line, IMO, both SA and DA are useful, and the well-rounded wheelgunner will be proficient with both. I personally think it's easier to transition from good DA form to good SA form than the reverse, and the former takes more practice, so a good wheelgunner will likely spend most of their time shooting DA.
MrBorland is online now  
Old May 29, 2014, 10:06 AM   #9
ATLDave
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 30, 2011
Posts: 1,804
Decide whether you want to get better at DA shooting. If you do, make yourself do it exclusively until you're decent at it. Otherwise, the temptation to revert to SA during your range sessions (and the tidy little groups you'll be able to produce) will keep you from progressing. Just make learning to shoot DA a project.

If you don't care about being able to shoot well DA, then just keep right on shooting SA.
ATLDave is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 10:36 AM   #10
wlewisiii
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 1, 2010
Location: Hayward, WI
Posts: 1,578
One of the things that my DAO modified Model 10 has done is force me to only shoot double action and that's reviled all kinds of bad habits that I'm slowly weeding out and getting better as a result. Single action, for me, hides a multitude of sins.
__________________
"You better watch out, what you wish for
It better be worth it, so much to die for."
Hole
wlewisiii is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 11:31 AM   #11
MrBorland
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 13, 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDave
Decide whether you want to get better at DA shooting. If you do, make yourself do it exclusively until you're decent at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlewisiii
One of the things that my DAO modified Model 10 has done is force me to only shoot double action
Both are good points. Rendering a revolver Double Action Only by removing the hammer spur and SA notch forces one to shoot DA. Combined with a commitment to master the DA trigger, you'll improve your overall revolver shooting tremendously. Below's a good read on the subject.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_...e_for_dao.html
MrBorland is online now  
Old May 29, 2014, 11:39 AM   #12
RealGun
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 21, 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 5,358
Quote:
When I shot PPC, it was esay to spot the new guys, they were shooting SA. I know I did. It took a while but when I started to shoot DA (and practice with live fire and dry firing) my scores went up and I advanced through the stages. I still practice DA shooting.
When I once used my Kahr 4" T40 to shoot a bullseye match, the director immediately suggested I use my 1911 instead. That was indoors at 20 yards max. That is a DAO versus SA issue, with both trigger actions outstanding examples. I purposely used that gun, only competing with my own prior scores, but it was interesting to hear what I thought was a common feeling about the two types of trigger actions.

I shot DAO in my semi-auto carry guns for the first 8 years of carrying. Meanwhile, I owned a full sized steel 1911 that made me look like a better shot.
__________________
RealGun
---------------
RealGun is online now  
Old May 29, 2014, 11:41 AM   #13
RealGun
Member
 
 
Join Date: March 21, 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 5,358
Aren't those who "stage" their DA trigger pull just doing a faux SA?
__________________
RealGun
---------------
RealGun is online now  
Old May 29, 2014, 12:01 PM   #14
Comrade Mike
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 16, 2013
Posts: 682
Why can't we shoot both?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1401379285.214781.jpg
Comrade Mike is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 12:11 PM   #15
murf
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 16, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,696
realgun,

holding a ten pound da trigger at the let-off point is a bit different than pressing a three pound sa trigger. one should learn, and be proficient with, both methods.

murf
__________________
accuracy: a whole bunch of holes real close together exactly where you want them to go.

practice makes perfect

festina lente
murf is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 12:14 PM   #16
Jim Watson
Member
 
 
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Posts: 18,236
Agree with F111, it depends on what the OP means by "target practice."
MY "target practice" is mostly practice for target competition. These days that is IDPA, so I will be shooting double action except when testing ammunition for accuracy and velocity.
I also learned to shoot PPC double action at all ranges and positions.

And the defensive revolver should certainly be shot double action.
I know of some cases like Sleazy's when the habit of single action shooting took over in a stressful situation. Two resulted in holes in rug and furniture when ladies who had been considerately provided by their husbands with double action revolvers suited to their dim little brains and dainty little hands found out for themselves that pulling the hammer back made the trigger way easier to pull. When they armed themselves against perceived threats, they cocked their revolvers much too soon. Attempting to ease the hammer down after the threat had passed by one led to a hole in the floor. A startle reaction put a hole in a water bed for the other, fortunately in the rail above the mattress.

But if I were shooting NRA or IHMSA, it would be single action all the way.

Yes, Realgun, there is, or was, a school of staged double action shooting. I think it was Paul Weston who advocated it in opposition to the Ed McGivern system of a smooth rolling pull and reset.
You could even buy grips with a hump on the filler at the off side rear of the trigger guard to be contacted by the tip of the trigger finger and give you a stop point for the last stage.
Some of those alleged DAO PPC shooters have rubber trigger stops. They can sweep the trigger back to the stop, refine the sight picture, and squeeze off the shot against the slight added resistance of the rubber.
__________________
I have a few facts and a lot of opinions.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 01:40 PM   #17
9mmepiphany
Moderator
  
 
Join Date: December 27, 2002
Location: northern california
Posts: 15,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealGun View Post
Aren't those who "stage" their DA trigger pull just doing a faux SA?
Yes, they are and they aren't doing themselves any favors...I should know, I did it for quite a while when shooting PPC.

DA trigger control practice...pressing the trigger smoothly to the rear without stopping or slowing down...will improve your SA trigger control; the reverse isn't true.

SA and staging a DA trigger at the letoff point, caters to the mind's desire to press off the shot when the sights look perfect...and usually result in shots going low and left
__________________
Because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale

Correct Grip
DA Trigger Management
How to Dryfire and Hit Stuff

Forum Rules
9mmepiphany is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 01:42 PM   #18
Skribs
Member
 
 
Join Date: October 29, 2010
Location: Lakewood, Washington
Posts: 5,521
Quote:
It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you wish to improve your defensive shooting accuracy, then normally you would practice double action.

If you wish to make very small groups on paper, then normally you would shoot single action.

So when you are at the range, what are you trying to accomplish? Practicing your defensive shooting, or have fun?
You beat me to it, and probably worded it better. Personally, both are fun, but you will probably be more accurate single action, but it would be more practical to train in double action because that's what you're likely to use in self defense.
__________________
"For a victim of violent crime to call for gun control is like a victim of shipwreck calling for the elimination of life boats." - Vern Humphrey

Be sure to check out Numan on the Kindle Store! If you do not have a kindle, there are free reader apps for Android, iOS, Mac, and Windows.
Skribs is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 01:52 PM   #19
Cooldill
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 19, 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,223
Well if it's a single action revolver, that's all you can practice with LOL.

As for SA/DA revolvers... I usually shoot in double-action mode. That's mainly because I use revolvers for defense, not just target guns, and I wan't to practise as I play. Also I have a S&W 642 which is DAO, and I found that by learning it's trigger pull it helped me shoot my other revolver much better in DA. Now I practice that way most often.
Cooldill is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 01:56 PM   #20
MrBorland
Member
 
 
Join Date: April 13, 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 2,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skribs
Personally, both are fun, but you will probably be more accurate single action,
One gets good at what they practice. Practice DA shooting enough, and there's no reason your DA accuracy can't generally be the equal of your SA accuracy, all else being equal. Most, however, either don't shoot as much DA as they need to to achieve this kind of DA proficiency or they don't believe (or know) DA can be very accurate.

FWIW, I agree with 9mmE, and I'm of the "no staging" school of thought. It largely amounts to timing the shot, which is a futile errand.

When I've caught myself staging, it was because I wasn't mentally committed to a complete DA pull from the beginning of the pull. You can abort the shot if everything doesn't look right, but commit to a smooth, steady and complete DA pull when you begin the pull, not after you've stopped to stage. If the sights are aligned when you started the pull, and your DA pull is smooth, they should still be aligned when the shot breaks.
MrBorland is online now  
Old May 29, 2014, 02:08 PM   #21
9mmepiphany
Moderator
  
 
Join Date: December 27, 2002
Location: northern california
Posts: 15,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBorland
If the sights are aligned when you started the pull, and your DA pull is smooth, they should still be aligned when the shot breaks.
This is what we refer to when we say that much (most) of shooting a handgun is a mental game...sometimes it is just an Act of Faith
__________________
Because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale

Correct Grip
DA Trigger Management
How to Dryfire and Hit Stuff

Forum Rules
9mmepiphany is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 02:48 PM   #22
4v50 Gary
Moderator
  
 
Join Date: December 19, 2002
Posts: 16,469
I love DA revolver sooting. I practiced regularly just to master that longer trigger pull.

Here's an exercise that helps: Put a coin on the barrel (if the barrel has a flat rib on top) of a revolver loaded with snap caps. Aim at a target and squeeze. You should be able to maintain your hold on the target and have the coin fall off.
__________________
TFL Aluminium. Molon Labe!
4v50 Gary is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 03:03 PM   #23
mavracer
Member
 
 
Join Date: January 9, 2007
Location: wichita
Posts: 3,473
If you want to shoot DA learn to shoot DA as MrBorland has said and can demonstrate there's no reason you can't be as good DA as you can SA or at least nearly so.
__________________
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
INTEGRITY- the ability to do the right thing even when no one will know.
mavracer is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 03:42 PM   #24
RainDodger
Member
 
 
Join Date: August 20, 2009
Location: Great Northwest
Posts: 992
During my firearms "formative" years, I thought single action was the only way to shoot. Then I was properly trained to shoot double-action as a federal agent (we had to carry revolvers back then )

Now when I shoot any revolver that is double-action capable, that's the only way I shoot. You can be very, very accurate shooting double-action with practice. Time and practice is the way....
__________________
Roger
Life Member, NRA, since 1975
Hand Loading since '69
U.S. Naval Aviator, Retired
RainDodger is offline  
Old May 29, 2014, 03:45 PM   #25
BCRider
Member
 
 
Join Date: November 15, 2008
Location: Pacific North"Wet" Coast of Canada
Posts: 6,410
I shoot a lot in speed related matches so the lion's share of my DA/SA revolver shooting is in DA mode. I probably cock for SA with those guns less than 1% of the time.

There is no doubt at all that the control needed to hold the sight picture and produce a smooth and accurate result with the DA trigger has made me a better shooter with ANY handgun.

The odd result is that since I shoot in SA mode so little I find I can match or do better even at long range slow bullseye shooting in DA mode.

I'm one of the folks that believes that staging the trigger is a good way to mess up a shooter's accuracy. I've seen this a few times where folks deliberately stage the trigger then snatch the trigger at the last to get the break where they want it. The resulting loss of control often results in a miss where they would have gotten a hit if they simply held the sight picture and pulled smoothly through with a nice build and follow through.

The fallout of shooting primarily in DA with my DA/SA revolvers is that when shooting the first shot in DA mode with my CZ semis I typically get my first shot into the center or onto the steel target.

So yeah, I'm a huge fan of the speed and results from shooting CORRECTLY in DA mode.
__________________
Sent from my boat anchor desktop via my pizza greased fingers....
BCRider is offline  
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise.
This site, its contents, Shooting Reviews, and its contents are Copyright (c) 2010-2013 Firearms Forum, Inc.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER
Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages.