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Old May 31, 2014, 03:22 PM   #1
blarby
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A partnership for powdercoating.

Well, at long last BDS and myself have decided to give it the 'ole THR try with powdercoating.

The tools are arriving ( most are here, parts for sizing still trickling in ) and the try in earnest should begin very soon.

We have a few choice bullets to try :

158gr GCLSWC in .358 (we'll be omitting the GC ) - designed for machine lube
175gr SWC in .401 - tumble lube
175g TC - machine lube
200g LSWC in .452 - tumble lube
230 LRN in .452 - machine lube
240g LSWC in .430 - tumble lube
240g LSWC and HP in .430 - machine lube
110, 150, and 230gr in .309 - GC, flat base, and BT respectively. Designed for machine lube except the 230- its a TL design.

We'll be using lee push-through sizers of the appropriate diameter.

We'll be PC'ing, and then sizing.

We'll be using straight WW alloy for all bullets.

And lastly, I will be using the #5 polypropylene container and .25 black airsoft BB method, using a toaster oven repurposed from my kitchen, and reynolds non-stick aluminum foil.

I'll begin with harbor freight red coating- as it's known to be a successful agent.

After initial testing using the materials and methods listed above, we'll be branching out into different methods to test their effectiveness in achieving positive results.


This is where all the results will be posted.

I'll try and get as many pictures of the process as I can, as well as some video.

Stay tuned.


This project would not be possible without BDS- both for his research, and a generous donation of new moulds and sizers for the project. Without his research and contributions, this project would not be being undertaken.


As much of the alloy after shooting and testing that can be recovered will be, and will be recast, recoated and distributed for final testing to those who have chosen to PIF to those in need in the PIF thread. That effort and alloy will be my side of the donation to make this project a success, and its final evaluation for meeting that threshold will be in the capable hands of THR's most generous members.

There are approximately 40 pounds +/- of alloy at the beginning, so there will not be millions of bullets to distribute- but everything in the testing save a small amount for personal use for myself and BDS will be redistributed, as final evaluation of the project will only then be completed.

Have a great weekend, folks !
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Last edited by blarby; May 31, 2014 at 03:33 PM.
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Old May 31, 2014, 03:51 PM   #2
tyeo098
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They work great in 300 AAC.
In my exp, TL designs take better to being powder coated than standard designs.


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Old May 31, 2014, 11:16 PM   #3
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Blarby, any plans for the Hi-Tek coating down the road?
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Old June 1, 2014, 12:00 AM   #4
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tyeo, people are going to think you're crazy, loading lipsticks into your rifle.
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Old June 1, 2014, 02:30 AM   #5
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Why powder coat a bullet? What does that do for you?
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Old June 1, 2014, 03:35 AM   #6
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It gives you all the advantages of lead, without all the disadvantages of lead. Plus, they look cool.
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Old June 1, 2014, 04:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
Why powder coat a bullet? What does that do for you?
These were issues/concerns/questions we wanted to test/verify with our "partnered" project:

- Different color can be used to note different powder/charge loads (Red for slower powder/max load, yellow for faster powder/mid-range load, etc.)

- Viability of not needing to lube lead bullets and using powder coating (PC) instead

- Performance issues of PC bullets in Glock vs traditional rifled pistol barrels in terms of accuracy and leading, particularly 40S&W.

- PC/Performance comparison between tumble lube bullet design vs single channel lube bullet design

- Benefits of reduced exposure to lead when dry tumbling (DT) that coats the entire bullet vs using a PC gun that leaves the bullet base lead exposed

- Swirl/shake DT method vs plastic/Ziplock bag "massage" method for PC well as different BB color/multi-facet plastic beads factoring ambient humidity levels

- Viability of using heavier 230 gr PC bullet for .300 BLK in terms of accuracy and cost savings with anticipated cleaner gas tube

If all goes well, I am hoping for PC bullets that will reduce lead exposure, shoot cleaner without leading and cost less than jacketed bullets, especially for .300 BLK.
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Old June 1, 2014, 04:23 AM   #8
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BTW, I am going to start looking around for wheel weights in my area to contribute for the project.

If you come across some wheel weights and don't cast (or if you cast but have some to share), it would be appreciated if you can PIF to blarby to cast test bullets he will be PIF to other THR members.

Thank you in advance.
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Old June 1, 2014, 01:56 PM   #9
35 Whelen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
Why powder coat a bullet? What does that do for you?
These are kind of my questions too.

I'm very open-minded when it comes to handloading and especially bullet casting. That being said, I don't mean to throw a turd in the punch bowl, but gee whiz powder coating seems like a time consuming PITA when traditional bullet lubing and sizing works just fine.


So school me....


35W
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Old June 1, 2014, 02:24 PM   #10
Havok7416
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There is no smoke using powder coating, which is the main advantage of it. The bullets can also be driven faster if required.
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Old June 1, 2014, 02:39 PM   #11
35 Whelen
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I lack 200 primers finishing a case of large pistol primers I got in about February of last year. Every single one of those 4800 rounds was fired with cast bullets and I never really noticed smoke. Anyhow, I can see the merits of higher velocity though.
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Old June 1, 2014, 02:56 PM   #12
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I'm sure they will all work if done properly. My investment in PC'ing is $7 so far. $4 for the HF red and $3 for the nitrile gloves from Lowes. I've coated 800 401-175-TC and 875 356-120-TC and shot 200 of the 40 cal boolits from my M&P40 with zero fouling. All since Monday. Here's my preferred method. I used a Styrofoam medical mailing box, but a 1 gallon Ziplock bag worked fine too. It's just that I can get over 200 boolits coated in one batch with the big box.

I've found that the real trick is getting the powder to spread evenly over the boolits. I do it this way with the nitrile glove. <-- You Tube video link




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Old June 1, 2014, 03:18 PM   #13
Havok7416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 Whelen View Post
I lack 200 primers finishing a case of large pistol primers I got in about February of last year. Every single one of those 4800 rounds was fired with cast bullets and I never really noticed smoke. Anyhow, I can see the merits of higher velocity though.
35W
I'm not saying it happens with every powder, but I get tons of smoke from regular cast bullets. The smoke in and of itself is not a big deal, but the lube can make a mess in the barrel.
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Old June 1, 2014, 03:35 PM   #14
tyeo098
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Powder coating is less 'rich mans lubing' and more 'poor mans jacketing'
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Quote:
The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the second only applies to muskets? Wat?
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Old June 1, 2014, 03:54 PM   #15
Havok7416
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Well said Tyeo!
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Sir we may be out of fuel!
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Old June 1, 2014, 04:07 PM   #16
blarby
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From my standpoint- I'll be honest :

I think powdercoating is simply an "easy out" for those who cant seem to get the proven formulas of cast bullet casting/using to work for them.

With that said, I think its a lot of work in areas that don't really need it.

However, certain areas of cast bullet usage remain tricky for even experienced casters, including but not limited to :

Quote:
- Performance issues of PC bullets in Glock vs traditional rifled pistol barrels in terms of accuracy and leading, particularly 40S&W.
And, high speed applications in rifle- such as 30 carbine, straight wall pistol cartridges in long arm formats, and last but not least cheaper high-volume applications for standard rifles- .308, 7mm, etc.


In terms of pistol, I think having to buy aftermarket barrels to use lead bullets isn't optimal. Some folks seem to get it to work, some folks don't- especially in higher pressure calibers like 40/10mm and 9mm.

We'll see where the data takes us.

Casting began today.


While your results look good, tyeo- if I had to finger massage every bullet I used.... I'd stop this project immediately.

High voume means just that- high volume. If this isn't faster than a traditional method that works, I won't use it in that application.

If it works in applications where traditional methods don' however- that would be a completely different situation.
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Last edited by blarby; June 1, 2014 at 04:12 PM.
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Old June 1, 2014, 04:18 PM   #17
Havok7416
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So Blarby, why are you conducting this project then?
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Sir we may be out of fuel!
What makes you think that?
We’ve lost engine #1... and engine #2 is no longer on fire!
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Old June 1, 2014, 04:36 PM   #18
blarby
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For reasons stated.

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Old June 1, 2014, 04:49 PM   #19
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I got all stuff to PC but the oven I'll be using the #5 plastic and black air soft ,with HF red I'm glad to see this thread on THR .I'll be looking forward to see your results .
CC
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Old June 1, 2014, 04:50 PM   #20
Havok7416
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Well either way I'm interested to see what you come up with. The 175 SWC .401 is an awesome design that works flawlessly in all (3) of my 10mms.

Do you plan on selling these bullets eventually? If so, I'm definitely interested.
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Sir we may be out of fuel!
What makes you think that?
We’ve lost engine #1... and engine #2 is no longer on fire!
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Old June 1, 2014, 05:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Do you plan on selling these bullets eventually? If so, I'm definitely interested.
Unless Blarby has an FFL its illegal to make and sell projectiles for the same reasons its illegal to make and sell reloaded ammo.

Stupid reasons, but reasons.

Gifts are not counted though, and I have mailed a few to select persons over the years pro bono.
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Quote:
The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the second only applies to muskets? Wat?
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Old June 1, 2014, 05:56 PM   #22
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I wasn't referring to ammo, just the projectiles, which aren't illegal to sell without a license. Blarby has another thread where he is inquiring about premium bullets.
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Sir we may be out of fuel!
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We’ve lost engine #1... and engine #2 is no longer on fire!
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Old June 1, 2014, 06:11 PM   #23
tyeo098
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Quote:
just the projectiles, which aren't illegal to sell without a license.
This is incorrect.

Here we go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC 922(a)

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—

(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC921(a)(17)
(17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
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Quote:
The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the second only applies to muskets? Wat?
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Old June 1, 2014, 06:29 PM   #24
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All of which I'm much aware of, but thank you.

For those who aren't clear ;

You are required to have an FFL-06 to produce and sell bullets.

You are not required to have an FFL-06 to resell bullets from a maker who has the license, or to make and use them for your personal use.

Not exactly the direction we're supposed to be going on this thread- and I'd appreciate veering back towards that course.
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Old June 1, 2014, 06:32 PM   #25
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I am interested in the outcome I am about to start this myself thanks blarby
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