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Old June 17, 2014, 11:38 AM   #51
stonecutter2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkansas Paul View Post
See post #32. He got the gun back, albeit in much worse condition than when he dropped it off.
See my post above.
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Old June 17, 2014, 11:38 AM   #52
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Many of the 'mom-n-pop'/lone individual gunsmiths that I've tracked down are in fact greatly lacking on skill, experience and knowledge. I always immediately ask them where they went to school and if they tell me, "Oh, I just watched the armorer's VHS tapes a couple years ago", then I walk out the door. You'd be surprised to know how many little-local gunsmiths did no more than that.

And this is a good reason to opt for the gunsmithing department of a big-box retailer like Gander, Bass Pro, or Cabela's, even though the modern trend is to hate big-box anything. The fact is, they are large enough to know that their reputation requires real knowledge and skill in that department of their company, disciplined enough to never deal as shoddily and criminally as the OP's little-local guy did, and they are wealthy enough to fund any remedy if ever the need arises.

The little-local guy, even if he's the most skilled gunsmith on earth, can make mistakes that he might not be able to shell out the cash to remedy.

I do most all of my gunsmithing these days because too many of the little-local guys don't know what they are doing. When a job is beyond me, I call the Bass Pro in Denver and ask Bart what he thinks.
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Old June 17, 2014, 11:42 AM   #53
Arkansas Paul
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Quote:
See my post above.
I was editing so it took longer. Sorry bout that.
With the condition it was in, he may as well not have though.

Man, I would be so pissed.
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Old June 17, 2014, 11:43 AM   #54
stonecutter2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbine85 View Post
Go to small claims court. File the case for twice the value of the gun and see if he settles before you go to court.
For what the gun is worth, any attempt at compensation probably is outweighed by the time/cost to go through the process.

The missing parts...not sure what those would be worth, but that's all the guy has now against the "gunsmith."

I don't think the court will punish the guy for being a bad gunsmith.

If the gun isn't safe to shoot either, it's worth even less.
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Old June 17, 2014, 11:45 AM   #55
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Quote:
For what the gun is worth, any attempt at compensation probably is outweighed by the time/cost to go through the process.
Agreed.
When I was doing my internship at a private law firm while getting my paralegal degree the attorney there told me once, "Right aint always smart." Wise words.
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Old June 17, 2014, 11:55 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF_Vet View Post
Update:

I talked to him on the phone first thing this morning, and he offered to make it right by replacing the gun. He swore up and down it was an honest mistake and he wanted to make it right. I told him I'd let him know what I decided after I talked to my step dad.

I told my step dad about the offer to replace the gun, and also mentioned I was considering called the sheriff and the ATF, but wanted his opinion. Basically, he was ok with it if I wanted to call the ATF, but if I could get a gun out of him also, all the better. He was understandably upset, it being his grandfathers gun.

So I went into this guys shop, and guess what he has waiting behind the counter? If you guessed the Remington Model 10, you guessed right.

But it gets better. So he has the gun, apologizes profusely for the 'mistake' and informs me it's a wall hanger. He replaced a couple parts, but the receiver rails are so worn, along with the barrel lugs that hold it to the receiver, it'll never be safe to shoot. I expected as much when I dropped it off. Now here's where it gets even more fun. Its missing parts. The clamp that holds the magazine tube to the barrel is missing, the trigger pin is missing, and the slave screw for the stock is missing. He's going to look for them, or order them if he can find any.

Oh, it gets better still. For some unknown reason, he decided to take a wire wheel and strip off ALL THE PATINA on the barrel. 88 years of finish wear and patina, gone because of some idiot. I can't even consider him a gunsmith, despite his 01 FFL and brick and mortar store. He's clueless, and a liar.

I'm still considering the idea of telling my tale to the agent at the local ATF field office in Grand Rapids. His incompetence may be senility (the guys got to be in his 70s) or maliciousness

I'm glad I got the gun back, even in its current state, but I'm still not satisfied with the outcome.

If any one wants to know the name and address of thus place, so they know who to avoid, PM me.
Wanted to add...I would keep on him to replace the missing parts.

Agree on what is missing.

Expect he "find" them, or replace them.

You gave him a complete gun, you should expect the same in return...and soon.

If if it's a "wall hanger" - it was complete when you gave it to him. You should get the same returned.

He does not deserve to benefit from your missing parts, especially after taking MONTHS of your time to give you a run around, and wire brushing your barrel for some as-yet unknown reason.

Keep on him every week. Every week.

Let this be a wake up call for him to not toy with people and their property.
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Old June 17, 2014, 01:47 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoRoMo View Post
Many of the 'mom-n-pop'/lone individual gunsmiths that I've tracked down are in fact greatly lacking on skill, experience and knowledge. I always immediately ask them where they went to school and if they tell me, "Oh, I just watched the armorer's VHS tapes a couple years ago", then I walk out the door. You'd be surprised to know how many little-local gunsmiths did no more than that.

And this is a good reason to opt for the gunsmithing department of a big-box retailer like Gander, Bass Pro, or Cabela's, even though the modern trend is to hate big-box anything. The fact is, they are large enough to know that their reputation requires real knowledge and skill in that department of their company, disciplined enough to never deal as shoddily and criminally as the OP's little-local guy did, and they are wealthy enough to fund any remedy if ever the need arises.

The little-local guy, even if he's the most skilled gunsmith on earth, can make mistakes that he might not be able to shell out the cash to remedy.

I do most all of my gunsmithing these days because too many of the little-local guys don't know what they are doing. When a job is beyond me, I call the Bass Pro in Denver and ask Bart what he thinks.
Pretty sure gander mountain closed some of their in house gun smiths while giving people back incomplete guns or boxes of parts while still charging them for incomplete work.
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Old June 17, 2014, 11:51 PM   #58
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USAF_Vet - for ALL our sakes, and esp. those in your area, PLEASE let us know this the name and address of this low-life!
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Old June 18, 2014, 01:36 AM   #59
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If anyone wants the name and address of this guy, PM me and I'll gladly let you know.
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Old June 18, 2014, 07:47 AM   #60
Sav .250
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Looks like this guy is running some sort of game on you. Hard to say what the out come will be.

Also contact the Better Business Bureau to complain/written complaint.

Did that weapon have a serial #? If he took it in to work on it, he had to log it in some where !
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Old June 18, 2014, 07:57 PM   #61
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You are a more patient man than I am. If he had done that to me the local sheriff would be getting a formal complaint, the BATFE would be getting a formal complaint, and my attorney would be going after him as well. I would introduce him to so many members of the law enforcement and legal professions he would think he was already in prison. If he operates his busines in this fashion I wonder if his taxes are in order.
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Old June 18, 2014, 09:09 PM   #62
4v50 Gary
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First there is a criminal charge of theft of a firearm. State and Feds both have an interest in that.

BTW, civilly it's the classic tort called conversion. That is a substantial use and interference of the chattel (property) of another; thereby denying the rightful owner the use and enjoyment of that chattel.
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Old June 18, 2014, 10:19 PM   #63
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What theft?
He has the gun.

The shady gunsmith will simply say that he misplaced it and thought he had given it to someone else, but later found it. And there won't be a single darn thing you can do to prove otherwise. There is no theft. There is no criminal issue.
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Old June 18, 2014, 10:29 PM   #64
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At this point, the only theft involved could be a few minor gun parts, to a nonfunctional gun. Don't think too many cops or lawyers would be interested.

I will keep on him about the missing parts, though, especially the barrel/ mag clamp. The pin and capture screw are not as aesthetically important to the gun as a wallhanger, but I do still want them back. As well as an explanation a to why he stripped the patina off the barrel.
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Old Yesterday, 04:43 PM   #65
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I'd let him know you are going to report him. If he doesn't suddenly have a clear memory, let the ATF or local police know.
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM   #66
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CoRoMo, despite your sound reasoning, I've had much better luck out of little-local guys than I have big box store national chains. I'm talking cars instead of guns, but they're both machines.

All of my gunsmithing has been done by myself or a little-local guy. I learned the hard way with my car, and if not for the printout, I probably wouldn't use the lifetime alignment I paid for.
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