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Old July 6, 2014, 12:47 PM   #1
lx2008
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CFE Pistol Powder report

hi, i just found some of cfe pistol for the 1st time since its been introduced.

i`m going for some loads in a 45acp 1911 Valor.

need a little help in knowing what to expect with respect to burn characteristics, and comparisons to other powder such as titegroup
that i mostly use for this pistol.

i have mostly used hard-cast lead ( 18 hardness) 200gr bbswc.
but with this new powder and whats its supposed to do for copper,
i thinking on using 200gr plated of the same type and 185gr. jacketed
from Sierra.

any users of cfe pistol want to chime in?

i know the cfe does work as advertised as the 223 version has all but eliminated copper in all my ar`s and even my m16 which i run very hot.
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Old July 6, 2014, 01:16 PM   #2
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I haven't found any CFE Pistol available locally yet. IMO there is no need for a Copper remover pistol powder because the velocities generated in a handgun won't come near being high enough to leave Copper in the barrel anyway. Reports do say it's accurate so even if there's no need for removing Copper accuracy is never a bad thing! lol

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Old July 6, 2014, 01:53 PM   #3
lx2008
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i can see your point about the velocity and jacket material left in the bore.

i also read that in several other forums. but, i have run copper solvent
thru my pistol bbls. w/ syn. brush bristles and got blue on my patches.
so i guess it can`t hurt to have a little xtra help. i not much for scrubbing
copper out!
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Old July 6, 2014, 01:54 PM   #4
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I think CFE Pistol fills the void that Winchester/Hodgdon powders had that is filled by Alliant's Unique, flexible powder well suited for full-power loads in various pistol calibers.

Although Universal comes close, I have used WSF to load full-power loads but I often needed to use high-to-near max load data for optimal accuracy. Perhaps Winchester/Hodgdon wanted Unique/Universal like powder produced domestically to better capture the market share currently held by Unique and to attain higher velocities of WSF?

I haven't used CFE Pistol yet but it seems promising as flexible W231/HP-38 almost capable of higher velocities of WSF. When CFE Pistol was introduced, I considered it as W231/HP-38 replacement but looks like I may consider it as replacement for WSF.
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Old July 6, 2014, 04:13 PM   #5
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I picked up some CFE because it was the only pistol powder I could find.

I figured if it drives a copper bullet, why wouldn't it drive a lead one?

I needed the powder for 38's. I went to the Hodgdon 's website and there were just as many loads for lead bullets as there were for jacketed.

No big deal.
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Old July 6, 2014, 04:52 PM   #6
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I just got a few pounds. I have not had a chance to try it out yet.
How do you like it?
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Old July 6, 2014, 07:54 PM   #7
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I have used CFE Pistol Powder for reloading .38 special, .357 magnum, and 9x19mm Luger so far. I like it very much. It meters very consistently, although it seems to bounce around more than other powders and I started putting a sheet of paper under the powder measure to catch the wayward grains.

CFE Pistol loads use more powder by weight than my regulars (Bullseye and Titegroup), but it has actually become my new favorite in my S&W 10-5 snubbie. A 158 grain LSWC over 4.4 grains of CFE Pistol has made me a better shooter with that short barrel revolver.
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Old July 6, 2014, 08:56 PM   #8
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For IDPA, I am running a sig TTT 1911 .45acp in CDP class. I just started loading 6.2grains of CFE behind a 230gr fmj rn at 1.22"oal.

It is alot more accurate than the 700x or WST or AutoComp i have tried in the past.

be safe.
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Old July 6, 2014, 10:27 PM   #9
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thanks for the tech info people.

will be trying some tomorrow. probably test these later this week.

will let you know.
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Old July 6, 2014, 10:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bds View Post
I think CFE Pistol fills the void that Winchester/Hodgdon powders had that is filled by Alliant's Unique, flexible powder well suited for full-power loads in various pistol calibers.

Although Universal comes close, I have used WSF to load full-power loads but I often needed to use high-to-near max load data for optimal accuracy. Perhaps Winchester/Hodgdon wanted Unique/Universal like powder produced domestically to better capture the market share currently held by Unique and to attain higher velocities of WSF?

I haven't used CFE Pistol yet but it seems promising as flexible W231/HP-38 almost capable of higher velocities of WSF. When CFE Pistol was introduced, I considered it as W231/HP-38 replacement but looks like I may consider it as replacement for WSF.
IMO Universal already covered the niche Unique has considering Hodgdon had Universal blended to mimic the performance of Unique.

From what I can see CFE Pistol and AutoComp are very close in performance but both are too new to really know for sure. In any case more powders are a good thing and it seems they all have their place.
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Old July 6, 2014, 10:46 PM   #11
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i finally found some decent powder again. i did see some cfe pistol but only 1 lb cans. there were also a few power pistol and a 4 lb. I grabbed the 4lb of power pistol because i know i may not see it for a while. really wanted more bullseye.
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Old July 10, 2014, 06:05 PM   #12
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I have 3 more pounds of CFE Pistol left. I really like it for my .45acp, 230fmj rn, 6.3gr, 1.22oal. At 10 yds it is awesome.

BUT I have alot of older powders to work thru, oldest being my 700x. and I have alot of that 8# keg left. Then Titegroup, WST, Autocomp.

Yeah I know its a tough delimma, but i will soldier thru.

Damn that CFE is nice!

be safe
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Old August 7, 2014, 08:55 AM   #13
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CFE Pistol for 40 S&W

I recently worked up some loads for my XD40 4" using CFE. I loaded up some mid-level loads and tested them the other day. The powder is a ball style that meters through the powder measure very easily and precisely. I used 165gr plated hollow points from X-treme Bullets http://www.xtremebul...Now-s/48075.htm . These are good bullets at a very competitive price point. I started out using low/mid range jacketed bullet data since the X-tremes are a plated bullet. I ran two strings of 5 shots over the chronograph and was pleased with the numbers. I also ran through two mags just stump shooting and they seem to be quite accurate. I will do some paper testing when I get more time to get group measurements. This is the load I settled on for everyday practice rounds.

Bullet- 165gr Xtreme HP
Brass- Speer
Primer- CCI 500
Powder- CFE Pistol
Charge- 6.4gr
C.O.L.- 1.125"

Springfield XD40 4" barrel. Chronograph at 15' from muzzle.

Average velocity- 1032fps
Hi- 1046fps
Low- 1025fps
ES- 21.3
SD- 8.7
AD- 6.1
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Old August 8, 2014, 03:46 PM   #14
lx2008
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have yet to try some. thought i would this wk. but just got too busy.

does anyone have any personal use with a 200gr swc?

was using titegroup w/ an avg. fps of 863.

i do know the CFE needs to be a little hotter to burn correctly
but not worried. my cast 200`s are B.H. of 18 so i can get hotter
if need be.

this weekend for sure so if you guys have any cfe data for 200gr swc,
i really appreciate the info tonight before i get started.
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Old August 10, 2014, 04:42 AM   #15
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i shot my first CFE today. done some comparison shooting. loaded 100 rounds devided into five powders. so 20 rounds per powder. to try and make it fair i didnt use any of my weights or data from prior loading. used hodgdon data except for the bullseye powder i used the newest lee book.again trying to make if fair i loaded all at max load data.yes i used caution when loading max data but i didnt use starting loads because my gun dont like some of the loads and doesnt cycle well at starting load so dont act like i'm an idiot for using max loads to start. i've used W231 and all these in the past except CFE and didnt have any w231 or would have been in my comparison.
loaded all last thursday and shot all today as it was a dreary cloudy humid day.
this is 9mm using a ruger P85. 115g FMJ in R-P cases and cci sp primers. the data is copied from my excel program that does the math for the ftlbs etc. but i dont know how to make it readable when copied to forum so i removed a lot and had to add the ----'s to make it half readable. seems CFE has highest velocities but bullseye seemed the most consistant. accuracy?????
i dont know. thatll be another test another day. after the first 2 powders it was hard to tell.

Powder---Velocity---Ft lbs Energy------Power Factor

Autocomp--1117------318.54------------128.46
CFE--------1181------356.08------------135.82
Bullseye----1127------324.26------------129.61
IMR 7625---1078------296.68------------123.97
IMR 4756---1068------291.20------------122.82

Last edited by therealwormey; August 10, 2014 at 04:53 AM. Reason: unreadable
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Old August 10, 2014, 06:33 AM   #16
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So your results are from the Excel program, not chrono data?
You might find that chrono/"real world" results differ from the program.
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Old August 10, 2014, 05:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntershooter View Post
So your results are from the Excel program, not chrono data?
You might find that chrono/"real world" results differ from the program.
you misunderstand.that is my real world chrono data on a excel spreadsheet.
i have created a sheet for each caliber i load. i find writing time consuming(and i cant read my own writing) so when i shoot i have a small digital recorder hangin on a lanyard around my neck.as i shoot i just say the results and when i get done or usually later that night i playback my results and type in the numbers. if you set up your spreadsheet and have a section off to the side for powder,primer,case, bullet mfg,bullet type,,,anything standardly used, then do a data validation to creat a dropdown for each so you dont have to type in standard things.you just click the one for that day. i type my velocities in and it does the math for the count,st dev and mean avg using the formulas
=COUNT(Q3:Q42)....=STDEV(Q3:Q42)....=AVERAGE(Q3:Q42)

then i type those results in on another part of the spreadsheet and and it does the math for ftlbs and energy using the formulas
=(D4)*J4^2 / 450450 and =D4*J4/1000

only problem is when you copy data from a spreadsheet to the formum is it doesnt keep the spacing so the columns are garbled and it makes no sense.

it looks like this sample mess that is hard to read

Load Data And Performance
Test Date Bullet Type Grn Weight Powder Trickled Up To Pwdr Grn Weight Disk or Measure Primer Notes Velocity Standard Dev Ft lbs Energy Power Factor
4/20/2014 Remington JHP 110 H 110 22.5 stckd .71 .76 CCI SP STD 1586 22 614.26 174.46
4/20/2014 Remington JHP 110 H 110 22.5 stckd .71 .76 CCI SP MAG 1619 23 640.09 178.09
5/14/2014 X Treme PHP 158 H 110 Tricked Up To 6.7 1.09 CCI SP MAG 1240 33 539.33 195.92
5/14/2014 Winchester JSHP 125 H 110 Tricked Up To 22 1.46 CCI SP MAG 1646 19 751.84 205.75
5/18/2014 Winchester JSHP 125 H 110 Tricked Up To 21.8 1.46 CCI SP MAG 1583 24 695.38 197.88
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Old August 10, 2014, 09:56 PM   #18
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Thanks wormey, for your data.

I placed some CFE Pistol on backorder. So I'm watching this thread with much interest.
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Old August 11, 2014, 03:37 PM   #19
lx2008
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+1 on the data.

if you own a 1911 .45 and get a chance before i do to crony some loads,
please post them.

i`m trying to get info using a 200gr hardcast swc. not too hip on the hotter velocity the hodgdon data implies for this particular bullet but going to try it anyhow.
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Old August 11, 2014, 05:31 PM   #20
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I just went through 10 months without being able to find my favorite .380 ACP and .45 ACP powder - Unique. In mid January I switched over to HP-38 since I was able to find that powder. Then starting in June I ran into problems finding HP-38 [or 231] so I decided to give CFE Pistol powder a try since it was readily available. Last week I was able to find 2lbs of Unique at my lgs so I can get back to my preferred loads. My feeling thus far regarding CFE Pistol powder is that if I can't find my preferred powders, it will do but I would need to do more load development. Below are my chronograph results todate comparing the various loads. I've also included my .357 Mag data for comparison.

Code:

 Caliber    Gun      Bullet         Powder       MV    Energy   PF

.380 ACP    LCP     90gr XTP     4.5gr Unique    950    180     86
                                 4.6gr CFE       915    167     82

           PPK/S    90gr XTP     4.5gr Unique   1051    221     95
                                 4.6gr CFE      1016    206     91

                    92gr LRN     3.8gr Unique    972    193     89
                                 3.4gr HP-38     891    162     82
                                 4.1gr CFE       869    154     80

                    95gr LRN     3.4gr HP-38     917    177     87
                                 4.0gr CFE       884    165     84

.45 ACP     XDm    200gr XTP     7.2gr Unique   1002    446    200
                                 7.6gr CFE       932    386    186

                   200gr LRNFP   6.0gr Unique    849    320    170
                                 5.7gr HP-38     836    310    167
                                 6.8gr CFE       822    300    164

                   230gr XTP     6.7gr Unique    951    462    219
                                 7.1gr CFE       872    388    201

                   230gr LRN     5.8gr HP-38     848    367    195
                                 6.5gr CFE       828    350    190

.357 Mag    686+   140gr XTP     8.5gr Unique   1258    492    176
                                18.5gr H110     1326    546    186
                                15.3gr 2400     1283    512    180
                                 8.5gr CFE      1055    346    148

                   140gr LTC     7.7gr Unique   1248    484    175
                                17.0gr H110     1315    537    184
                                15.0gr 2400     1340    558    188
                                 7.8gr CFE      1051    347    147

                   158gr XTP     8.0gr Unique   1190    497    188
                                16.5gr H110     1192    498    188
                                15.0gr 2400     1259    556    199
                                 7.9gr CFE      1126    445    178

                   158gr LSWC    7.0gr Unique   1133    450    179
                                15.0gr H110     1216    519    192
                                14.5gr 2400     1293    586    204
                                 7.1gr CFE      1123    442    177
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Old August 11, 2014, 07:44 PM   #21
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Hey CC, pardon if my ignorance shows, but where did you find the charges for CFE? Or are they loads you worked up to? Thanks!
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Old August 11, 2014, 09:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcofohio View Post
Hey CC, pardon if my ignorance shows, but where did you find the charges for CFE? Or are they loads you worked up to? Thanks!
www.hodgdonreloading.com and the Hodgdon printed pamphlets are probably the only places to get CFE Pistol data so far. hodgdonreloading.com doesn't work too well for me on IOS (iPod touch) but it works great on my desktop computer.
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Old August 11, 2014, 10:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
kcofohio previously posted:
Hey CC, pardon if my ignorance shows, but where did you find the charges for CFE? Or are they loads you worked up to? Thanks!
I started with the info from Hodgdon's online website http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ and worked up the loads shown in my previous post. As KansasSasquatch stated about the only place you can find published CFE Pistol powder loads is on the Hodgdon website. If I were really serious about switching to CFE Pistol, I would spend additional effort on load development - I'm sure I could probably work up loads with better perfomance.
--
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Old August 12, 2014, 04:46 AM   #24
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Thanks CC & Kansasasquash! Yes, I have seen the Hodgdon data. It looks to be an all around pistol powder. Just thought somebody else may have published their own data.

One more question CC. Any signs of lead or powder fouling? Thanks!
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Old August 12, 2014, 09:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
kcofohio previously posted:
One more question CC. Any signs of lead or powder fouling?
I don't know if I buy the "Eraser" moniker but there was no noticable leading from each 10-shot string for each bullet. However as usual I did shoot the jacketed XTP's as the last chronograph strings in each load test so that would have helped clean the bores of any lead. I haven't shot a lot of lead rounds using CFE so I can't say how it will perform with respect to leading in the long run. Nor did I notice any untoward powder fouling although I did notice more smoke than usual with the last round of load testing from my LCP and PPK/S in the .380 ACP loads.
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