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Old July 9, 2014, 11:50 PM   #1
Henry45
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Long Range Shooting

I've always been curious about doing the 1000-2000 yard shots. I've got my 308, 300 Win Mag and 270 all sighted in and can pretty much lay a 50 cent piece over the shots at 100-200 yards with ease. But the science and sheer knowledge on how to do the long shot has always intrigued me. I work for a great manufacturer in the firearms business and would love to have a 338 Lap, and could buy one with a pretty hefty discount. I reload so i could custom tailor my loads to my shot and my gun.

Where is the best place to start on understanding the mechanics and the science in these kinds of shots. I'd love to do it in a competition someday.

Anyone got the same bug I have? Any info on the best starting point?

Thanks!
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Old July 9, 2014, 11:54 PM   #2
Don McDowell
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I really like shooting the 1000 yd matches with my Sharps. Don't have any inclination to do it with a modern smokeless rifle.
But I would suggest you find all you can written by David Tubb on the subject of long range smokeless shooting.
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Old July 9, 2014, 11:56 PM   #3
taliv
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i think the tiborasaurusrex youtube videos are a great start
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Old July 10, 2014, 12:46 AM   #4
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Check out LongRangeHunting.com Forum. You'll be able to pick up some good information regarding long range shooting.

They recently started a sub-forum dedicated to EXPERIENCED long range shooters only. 1000 + yds..
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Old July 10, 2014, 08:50 AM   #5
jehu
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I am currently shooting a Sako TRG 42 338 Lapua with a Nightforce ACTAR with the MOAR reticle. This set up is awsome for long distance. Get the SHOOTER app on your phone and enter your load data after you true your chart, then you can dial up the scope. You will need a good range finder, I like the Leica 1600. And yes it's not a poor mans game!!
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Old July 10, 2014, 03:32 PM   #6
Cee Zee
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I've learned a lot about shooting from this web site:

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/

This article will get most people 99% of the way to shooting the way they want to shoot. I understand you are probably beyond this level but for many it is a great article. There are other articles on that site that cover just about every aspect of shooting except for the most modern equipment and that changes pretty much constantly so it has to be learned elsewhere. But most shooting skills have been recognized for a very long time. This article is over 90 years old if that tells you anything but the basics are still exactly the same.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...ksmanship.html

This article on the history of long range shooting is also very useful. It covers history up to the shot made by Kreg Slack on a p'dog from 1.78 miles. There's a lot of info in there that can help anyone understand long range shooting.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...-shooting.html

Last edited by Cee Zee; July 10, 2014 at 03:42 PM.
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Old July 11, 2014, 08:59 AM   #7
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I certainly will defer to the guys like Taliv who are experts at long range shooting, but I found this article to be a pretty good primer on the matter. He's got a bit of personal opinion in it that could probably be done without, but this is a subject that's always going to have some of that.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/pract...ing-equipment/
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Old July 11, 2014, 10:24 AM   #8
Henry45
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Thanks guys! Don, what kind of Sharps are you shooting? It's going to be a study and alot of shooting, but, hey... what's better than doing a lot of shooting? Thanks for all the info. Going to start soaking it all up. It's going to be fun.
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Old July 11, 2014, 10:46 AM   #9
Don McDowell
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Henry I'm shooting 2 Shiloh's a #3 and a roughrider both chambered in 44-77 (the original Creedmoor cartridge) A C Sharps 75 that is currently chambered in 45-70 but is scheduled for a change to something in 44 cal (have the barrel just need to decide on the reamer) . And am looking seriously at ordering a Hiwall from C Sharps in 44-90 st..
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Old July 12, 2014, 12:30 AM   #10
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I second the tiborasaurusRex "Sniper 101" YouTube series. That guy covers EVERYTHING a new long-range shooter needs to know. The series is 85 parts long, and each "part" is about 20-30mins long. Here's a link for ya: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...BZi0vDCIcEPxUn

As far as apps go, the Ballistic app for iPhone cannot be beat. All others pale in comparison..it is a little spendy though (for an app).
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Old July 12, 2014, 01:50 AM   #11
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All you need is the ballistic/trajectory chart book from for example "Hornady" and use comparable bullets in your reloading. Get a Chronograph to check your reload to make sure you know what your doing in that respect. Find a place where you can start using your trajectory charts with respect to wind and distance etc. If you have access to the wonderful world of current technology this is great! After learning the way I did without depending on instant data transmissions I at least have no hesitation in case of system failures. I learned all my long range shooting with a 270 and a 30/06 at extreme long range shooting back in the 60's and 70's. Another thing I always did was step off my kills or hits regardless of the distance for verification since allot of my shooting was done in real world situations. Now they are in certified matches and you would not believe the rudimentary firearms I shoot for long range. It really makes allot of folks angry but it is amazing what you can get out of the std. calibers sitting in your closet.
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Old July 12, 2014, 02:22 AM   #12
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You don't have your location under your name so I can't recommend one of the long range shooting schools in your area. I highly suggest you take a class on long range shooting. No matter how much you think you know or how well you think you can shoot, a good school will make you better and teach you how to shoot long distances consistently under all conditions.

I have been told this is a very good school but I have no first hand experience with that school.
http://www.nrawc.org/whittington-u/precision.html

I'm sure others here who have taken classes can tell you which school they think is best or which school they have attended.
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Old July 12, 2014, 01:50 PM   #13
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I watched through the "Sniper101" series as well. I liked the fact that he presented the "how to pick.... " instead of saying "use this because it's what I use".

The later installments where they get into air density and other factors that affect the bullet's flight aren't really what I consider to be any sort of in depth style training. But it DOES make you stop and think. It also points out that doing the measurements and math for the conditions of the moment is just as important as the caliber of the rifle. At least it is if the goal is a first shot cold barrel hit on the distant target.
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Old July 14, 2014, 05:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
The later installments where they get into air density and other factors that affect the bullet's flight aren't really what I consider to be any sort of in depth style training. But it DOES make you stop and think. It also points out that doing the measurements and math for the conditions of the moment is just as important as the caliber of the rifle. At least it is if the goal is a first shot cold barrel hit on the distant target.
Just to summarize my comment, I will call the above, "local conditions".

My friend and I both had rifles built to really reach out and touch some feral hogs at his place. From the door of his barn, you overlook an 800'ish acre pasture whee the hogs would come out from a overgrown gravel pit in the mornings and evening at about 1000 - 1200yds. We noted that while shooting from the barn they weren't bothered at all by the reports of our rifles, so we decided to find a way to get to them without having to leave the barn.

So anyway, after building these rifles we were working up loads with respect to what other folks were using as start loads. Most of these folks were up in thin air, higher places like Idaho, Montana, and such. We found that our measly 300ft above sea level and out thick, compared to theirs, humidity, and pressures were simply not going to alloy us to work in the same ranges as those folks. In fact we ended up backing off most of the starting loads a minimum of 5 and in most cases 6 grains of powder, simply to keep the primer pockets good for two firings. Even these proved to be a bit much and ended up being our top end charge weights.

Just keep this in mind when you start off working up loads. Some folks in some areas of the country can get away with higher loads than others depending on the actual location and/or current conditions of that area. Stick with book loads and you should be fine. Unfortunately ours were not in any books so we were working backwards in essence.

Hope you get where your looking to be, the 338 Lapua is an awesome piece of machinery no doubt about it. You did mention shooting, and yes it takes a lot of it to get consistent. Things that are minuscule at 100yds are greatly amplified at 1K. It will, if nothing else, make you a MUCH better shooter.
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Old July 14, 2014, 11:57 AM   #15
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Now THAT is interesting. Who would have thought that being near sea level would raise the pressure? And by so much that you'd end up with over pressure signs!

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I see that with my motorcycles all the time. They tune them for an average elevation of something like 1500ft. Where I have lived most of my life down within 300ft from sea level I find I need to richen the mixture up to compensate or live with a noticeably lean running condition.

Anyhow, I'd thought that the issue was with the external ballistics. Thanks for the note that it also matters with the INTERNAL ballistics. I'm going to be loading for accuracy from my Mosin and Lee Enfield pretty soon. Based on your findings I'll start a little lower than the book starting load and work up from there.
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Old July 14, 2014, 12:16 PM   #16
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41 Mag, Any chance the rifles had tight necks or short leades?
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Old July 14, 2014, 06:27 PM   #17
41 Mag
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41 Mag, Any chance the rifles had tight necks or short leades?
Well they were chambered the same as half a dozen or more others built for other folks using the same reamer. Ours were up in the front of the line so they by all rights should have been bigger if anything simply due to any wear on the reamer.

The loads were fine in temps under 70 degrees but no way we could use them even at 80 or 85. Here are a couple of the initial cases I DID shoot when I found the loads simply weren't going to work for us. Sorry for the bad pic, but that cheap digital was all I had at the time,

As you can see though, there was plenty of flow into the ejector, and most of the stamped in lettering was flattened out. The action was also locked up pretty tight as well. Not something you want to have happen, but for sure better than what COULD have.

The same loads we had to back off of however, were being shot in higher temps, albeit at higher elevations and MUCH lower humidity. It was the only thing we could come up with to explain things being what they were.

We were also using powder from the same lot as several of the others as well as we all ordered it from the same vendor at the same time. It was when H869 first hit the market, and plenty were burning it up in good quantities.

Their loads were in the 96-98+ grain range ours were in the 92-94.5 grain range, depending on bullet weight.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:33 AM   #18
MtnCreek
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Thanks for the post. Bad picture or not, it clearly shows some serious pressure. Pressure signs written in braille?

The skeptic in me wants to attribute it to something other than air density, but interesting either way.
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:31 AM   #19
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Another vote for TiborasaurusRex! Still working my way through his videos. Just got a .308 load tuned in to a 4 shot group of 3/8" at 100 yards now its time to start reaching it out farther.
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