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Old July 25, 2014, 08:04 PM   #76
TIMC
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Finished this one up today....
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Old July 25, 2014, 08:07 PM   #77
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Quote:
Related to my question above, how did you gain the extra pull length between brace and receiver? Thanks<
There is a dip in the brace as seen in the picture midway down the brace, the tube stops there and does not slide forward even under recoil. Then again there is not much of any recoil. Extended buffer tubes are available as well as seen in the AK pistol pic above.
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Old July 25, 2014, 10:22 PM   #78
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wally
Quote:
Quote:
Funny, but all rifles already come with a stock......and it's free BTW.
But then you have to add the cost of a short barrel or the gunsmithing to shorten it which can't be done until you get the stamp.
As I posted above, the cost of that short barrel can easily be recouped by selling the original barrel.
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Old July 26, 2014, 01:25 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Elkins45 View Post
Wouldn't this be making an illegal SBR? Or did I miss the part where you got the Form 1 stamp?

Once a rifle, always a rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally View Post
But then you have to add the cost of a short barrel or the gunsmithing to shorten it which can't be done until you get the stamp. Not to mention sawing off an AR barrel may leave you needing to open up the gas port or add an adjustable gas block.
Elkins45- It wasn't real clear but I think he's talking about paying the $200 and submitting a form 1, making a legal SBR.

Wally- yes, for an AR I would just buy a short barrel or short barreled upper but any rifle other than the AR, you would have to add the cost of the gun smith to shorten it or install a short barrel as this is beyond what most people are capable of and making it reliable will most likely require opening up the gas port or adding an adjustable gas block ... which was the point I was trying to make.
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Old July 26, 2014, 01:34 AM   #80
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The arm brace is just another fad/gimmick.
Just like the MAC 10 was 30 years ago.
An expensive toy with no practical use in my opinion.
Over the years my taste has gone to more old school types.
A 30 M1 carbine handles pretty fast for an OLD gun.
I can get it into action just fine.
So I guess the SBR never interested me.
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Old July 26, 2014, 02:23 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by IBEWBULL View Post
The arm brace is just another fad/gimmick.
Just like the MAC 10 was 30 years ago.
An expensive toy with no practical use in my opinion.
Over the years my taste has gone to more old school types.
A 30 M1 carbine handles pretty fast for an OLD gun.
I can get it into action just fine.
So I guess the SBR never interested me.
How is there no practical use for the sig brace? Have you tried it? Have you not seen any videos with it or read the numerous poets in this thread and forum?

I can shoot and run my 11.5 pistol w brace every bit as well as my 16" and just as comfortably.

I think there is a lot of butt-hurt among those who went the nfa route shortly before the brace hit or are waiting while the brace hit... Seems like a lot just want to hate it.

Try it and report back. If you post "I have tried it blah blah blah" prove it and post a proof of life pic.
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Old July 26, 2014, 03:32 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBEWBULL
An expensive toy with no practical use in my opinion.
That's simply incorrect, and it's not a matter of opinion: Whatever you may think about it, the SIG brace has plenty of practical use for many people.

I went shooting today with a friend who has a bunch of ARs. Most of them are normal 16" rifles, but he has a 12" 300 Blackout "pistol" with a SIG brace and an EOTech with a 3x magnifier on it. When I was shooting all of his various rifles, I never even noticed that his 300 Blackout had an arm brace and not a real stock; I just shouldered it and fired it normally without noticing the difference.

Is the SIG arm brace as good as a regular stock? No, of course not. But it definitely serves a purpose for people who want a short barrel without having to go through the process of registering an SBR.
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Old July 26, 2014, 07:42 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Theohazard View Post
Is the SIG arm brace as good as a regular stock? No, of course not. But it definitely serves a purpose for people who want a short barrel without having to go through the process of registering an SBR.
And, believe it or not, not *all* of us can practically have an SBR. In Illinois I must get a C&R FFL (I gotta pay for that) then the $200 stamp and then I have to get yearly permission and apply to transport it across state lines as my training range is in another state. I'd rather have a "stock" for my MP5 variant but truthfully an arm brace, fired from the shoulder is as close as I'll get.

And it works just fine. It was no SBR for me until the brace concept was approved and now I'm on board for an SBR because of that. *And* I can transport my braced pistol across state lines with impunity and I can transfer it without hassle....no engraving, no hoop jumping. Not quite a full on stock but it's the only practical option for me and, frankly, I'm good with it.

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Old July 26, 2014, 11:58 AM   #84
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The arm brace is just another fad/gimmick.
Just like the MAC 10 was 30 years ago.
An expensive toy with no practical use in my opinion.
Over the years my taste has gone to more old school types.
A 30 M1 carbine handles pretty fast for an OLD gun.
I can get it into action just fine.
So I guess the SBR never interested me.
This is just an example of personal preference. I've owned a .30 carbine for more than 35 years and it rarely sees daylight. I do however love the sig brace and find these expensive toys a lot of fun but then again isn't that what we work hard for, so we can afford expensive toys? That no practical use thing pretty much fills the bill for everything in my life from my huge pickup that I don't haul stuff with to my wife!

Though they do make me happy!
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Old July 27, 2014, 02:09 PM   #85
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Old July 27, 2014, 03:48 PM   #86
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The arm brace is just another fad/gimmick.
Just like the MAC 10 was 30 years ago.
An expensive toy with no practical use in my opinion.
You'd sing a different tune if you watched a pair of novice, petite female shooters ringing the steel plates on a dueling tree with my 9mm SBR and 9mm SIG brace pistol.

Neither can handle a 16" 9mm AR carbine very well -- too front heavy, and with 9mm pistols (PPQ or XDM) they average about 1 hit in 2-3 shots. Its no contest they are far more effective shooters with the SBR or SIG brace pistol.
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Old July 27, 2014, 04:50 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by TIMC View Post
This is just an example of personal preference. I've owned a .30 carbine for more than 35 years and it rarely sees daylight. I do however love the sig brace and find these expensive toys a lot of fun but then again isn't that what we work hard for, so we can afford expensive toys? That no practical use thing pretty much fills the bill for everything in my life from my huge pickup that I don't haul stuff with to my wife!

Though they do make me happy!
Its just personal preference. I want the Sig brace for my next 300 blackout build ( pistol). On the other hand, I have no use at all for a 30 carbine. I have probably passed on buying one of those more than any other gun. I worked at JC penney's back when they sold guns and could have had one for a song. The little .22 caliber LR version interests me more. This is just my opinion, obviously some really like the 30 carbine.

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Old July 27, 2014, 05:27 PM   #88
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Well they may not be pretty, but they do serve a purpose.

Gotta confess - I've been thinking about a 300 Blackout pistol - possibly keep it a pistol with the brace, or later SBR it?

Checked Rock River Arms the other day - no mention of 300 Blackout on their site. Sent 'em an e-mail asking if they had plans for a 300 Blackout pistol or SBR in the near future, and was told "nope".

Kinda put that idea on hold for a while in order to give more AR makers a chance to produce a 300 Blackout pistol (I think RRA may be missing the boat here?).

The possibility of the ATF doing a reversal on the brace has also given me a bit of a pause...
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Old July 27, 2014, 09:38 PM   #89
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The possibility of the ATF doing a reversal on the brace has also given me a bit of a pause...
I think if they do that, they would have to change their position on extended pistol tubes all together as people have been putting them to their shoulders like a rifle ever since they came out ... I was surprised it passed mustard with the BATFE when I saw them with the foam pads on them. With the thousands of them that are out there now it would raise a huge **** storm if they retro-actively banned them now.
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Old July 27, 2014, 09:41 PM   #90
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With the thousands of them that are out there now it would raise a huge **** storm if they retro-actively banned them now.
Repeat after me...it's the government! (They don't care how much trouble it causes).

Until the brace came out, I had no use for an AR pistol.
If I were to go that route and the ATF reverses, I then have a $1k paperweight.
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Old July 27, 2014, 11:22 PM   #91
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basicblur .....If I were to go that route and the ATF reverses, I then have a $1k paperweight.
No, you would have an AR pistol that could easily be converted into a rifle for very little $$$.
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Old July 28, 2014, 01:35 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by kimberkid
I was surprised it passed mustard with the BATFE
I know it's just an auto-correct typo, but this cracked me up.

Anyway, I don't see the BATFE changing their mind on this. They can't control how people shoot their guns, so they're not going to say you can't shoulder it. All they can do is control how a firearm is designed. So the only way they'll ban it is if they decide it was actually designed as a stock to begin with, and that's an extreme call to make because SIG has been so consistant in marketing it as an arm brace.
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Old July 28, 2014, 08:38 AM   #93
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No, you would have an AR pistol that could easily be converted into a rifle for very little $$$.
Iff'n I'm not mistaken, it could be converted to a SBR for "very little money", but then I'd have to pay the $200 ATF fee, etc, and I'm again stuck with the problem of not being able to transport a few miles across the state line to reach my gun club without more ATF paperwork / delays.

Mebbe I could convert it to a non-SBR rifle, but I already have those, so why bother?
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Old July 28, 2014, 11:37 AM   #94
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Mebbe I could convert it to a non-SBR rifle, but I already have those, so why bother?
I'm thinking you (the same thing I thought for myself) that owners of the Arm Brace would have the use of it until the BTAFE reverses their decision, if & when that ever happens ... As a gun owner, I've blown a lot more money for a lot less of a reason.
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Old July 28, 2014, 05:34 PM   #95
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Iff'n I'm not mistaken, it could be converted to a SBR for "very little money", but then I'd have to pay the $200 ATF fee, etc, and I'm again stuck with the problem of not being able to transport a few miles across the state line to reach my gun club without more ATF paperwork / delays.

Mebbe I could convert it to a non-SBR rifle, but I already have those, so why bother?
ATF 5320.20 can be submitted once for up to a year of repeated travel.
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Old July 28, 2014, 05:46 PM   #96
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ATF 5320.20 can be submitted once for up to a year of repeated travel.
Was well aware of that - ran across that when I thought I was going to have to fill it out to transport silencers across the state line.

It still doesn't negate the fact that it's just one more bureaucratic hoop to jump through simply to drive a few miles to shoot.
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Old July 30, 2014, 10:17 PM   #97
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"No, you would have an AR pistol that could easily be converted into a rifle for very little $$$."

That seems logical.
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Old July 31, 2014, 09:48 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by TIMC View Post
This is just an example of personal preference. I've owned a .30 carbine for more than 35 years and it rarely sees daylight. I do however love the sig brace and find these expensive toys a lot of fun but then again isn't that what we work hard for, so we can afford expensive toys? That no practical use thing pretty much fills the bill for everything in my life from my huge pickup that I don't haul stuff with to my wife!



Though they do make me happy!

Tim, great post! I'm right there with ya on the whole "no practical use" thing...LOL!
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:19 AM   #99
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I am another opponent of the Sig Arm Brace. It was a cool design to get around a law...i suppose. I think the whole "it was created for a disabled Veteran story" is a crock or exaggerated but props on them because they aeem to be making a killing off of it.

Personally I paid the $200 for a real stock and the ability to adjust the length...not sure if thats available on the arm brace.

Granted I SBR'ed mine before the Sig brace came out, with the exception of my M92 that got SBR'd but I would stil ldo it the SBR way. It's $130ish for the stock and $200 for the paperwork... Well worth the exra couple bucks.

Personally the only advantage I see is for people in states that they are not allowed like CA, NY, MA, etc.
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:22 AM   #100
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Umm..you do. Transportingthem without prior approval is a crime. Regardless if the state you are going to allows SBR's. The approval usually takes about 4-5 weeks to get. Although I have called before when they lost it in the mail and the inspector let me email it to him, he approved it, sent it back and emailed me an approved copy.

Quote:
Was well aware of that - ran across that when I thought I was going to have to fill it out to transport silencers across the state line.

It still doesn't negate the fact that it's just one more bureaucratic hoop to jump through simply to drive a few miles to shoot.
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