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Old November 19, 2014, 08:14 PM   #226
deadin
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Quote:
But maybe I'm making the classic mistake of applying logic and reason to the ATF's interpretation and enforcement of the NFA...
Give that man a cigar!!!
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Old November 19, 2014, 08:50 PM   #227
Sam1911
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Theo -- you're stepping smack-dab into the middle of the potholed swamp the BATFE finds itself in, trying to apply the NFA to an infinitely varied set of items that rarely make a whole lot of sense when shoe-horned into the odd categories defined by the NFA.

There is a deeply flawed logic that underlies any of the length-based and/or "concealable" definitions (or the stupid vertical foregrip issue), especially as handguns were removed from the NFA's purview before passage. More and more often folks are identifying spots where two practically identical -- and in some cases COMPLETELY identical -- items "have" to be regulated in drastically different ways, and with astonishingly harsh penalties applied.

Seems like the whole mess is getting about ready to be challenged in the courts and thrown out wholesale. But we just aren't QUITE there yet. I'd be willing to put money on it in the next decade, though.
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Old November 19, 2014, 09:32 PM   #228
barnbwt
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"More and more often folks are identifying spots where two practically identical -- and in some cases COMPLETELY identical -- items "have" to be regulated in drastically different ways, and with astonishingly harsh penalties applied."
I believe the applicable terms are "arbitrary" and "capricious," though it's more the fault of the NFA writers than the ATF, who to be honest weren't given much of an option besides running an ad hoc regulatory system based in doublethink. They are literally the enforcers of the proverbial Catch 22 statute, and must therefore submit to its unknowable peculiarities themselves if they wish to uphold it

My dad practically had a stroke trying to make sense of this "NFA thing" when I first gave him the run down. He's an engineer, so like me, he couldn't stop himself from trying to logic his way through this problem. That's a good way to break your brain and end up in a ward, in my opinion. He concluded, as have I, that the only 'safe' solution is to unquestioningly follow the ATF's directives as best as you can, while maintaining as low a profile on their RADAR as possible. So yeah, pretty much abiding jack-booted tyranny

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Old November 20, 2014, 12:07 PM   #229
Quiet
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The Black Ace Tactical submitted firearm seeking classification clarification was a chambered in 12Gague, was semi-auto, used detachable magazines, had a vertical forward grip, had a less than 16" smoothbore barrel, had a greater than 26" overall length, and did not have a shoulder stock but had an arm brace installed.

This firearm is classified as a Title 1 Other firearm.
Because it has a less than 16" barrel, greater than 26" overall length, and no shoulder stock.

The BATFE FTB letter seems to confirms that the firearm:
1. is not a Title 1 Shotgun
2. is not a Title 1 Handgun
3. is not a Title 2 AOW
4. when the arm brace is used as designed, remains a Title 1 Other
5. when the arm brace is shouldered, becomes a Title 2 SBS

Since "this classification pertains only to this type of firearm and its classification under Federal law", that would mean it also effects other types of Title 1 Other firearms and does not effect Title 1 Handguns.
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