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Old July 15, 2014, 07:55 PM   #1
BootBuckle
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"New" Springfield 1911 in poor condition?

For those of you that don't know, citizens in the state of Maryland must take a 4 hour "HQL" course in order to be eligible to purchase a handgun. I've known this for a while now, but procrastination got the better of me...

After months of searching, I finally found a LGS who had access to a brand-spankin-new Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator through one of their distributors. That little 1911 has been the object of serious lust on my part for quite a while now, and when it finally became available, i said GOGOGO! They were willing to order it for me despite my lack of HQL, but required a 100% deposit and a sign-up for the course. Knowing that SA is a reputable brand, I slapped my visa on the desk and said "let's do it".

At work today, my LGS contacted me to let me know that my firearm had arrived from the distributor. They asked if I'd like to come in and see it, at which time I could fill out all of the paperwork req'd for the background checks, etc. As you could probably guess, I said "hell yeah" and drove down to the shop right after work.

When I arrived, I spoke with an employee who seemed very excited for me, and who promptly went to the back room to retrieve my new firearm. I was so pumped I could barely stand it. When the employee finally emerged, he possessed a standard Springfield-Armory hard case which looked like it had been sliding around in the bed of a pickup truck for hours on end.

I wasn't too worried about it, as it was the contents which really had me excited. I took out the pistol and gave it a quick once-over, and all looked good at first glance. I walked over to a light to get a better look, and i noticed a portion of the aluminum trigger which looked like it had been hit with a small hammer. It was oddly depressed in the size/shape of a pencil eraser, as if a piece of machinery mashed it pretty hard.

I know that SA is a quality company that will stand behind their product, but I'm frustrated about the pending hassle. If the gun was easier to come by, and if I hadn't already paid in full, I'd simply tell them "no thanks" and order a different specimen of the same model. Obviously that isn't an option, and I'll likely take possession of the gun, disassemble/clean/lube/reassemble, fire 100 rounds through it, and send it off to the factory for warranty work.

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? Is my intended path for edification reasonable, or would you suggest an alternate methodology? Thanks for the input, and sorry for the novel--I can get ahead of myself in front of a keyboard, especially if I'm passionate about the subject.

-BB
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:59 PM   #2
jerkface11
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Sounds like it wasn't new.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:00 PM   #3
DT Guy
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Wait-is the tiny mark on the trigger the entirety of the 'poor condition'?

Could be someone at the shop bumped/dropped it, could be someone at the factory did; Springfield's warranty is top notch, and I'd expect they will handle this quickly and competently.

Depending on the size and location of the mark, it's very likely I'd ignore it, myself....


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Old July 15, 2014, 08:11 PM   #4
ridgerunner1965
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the gun is the least of your probs. a 4 hr course jus to purchase a handgun???? come all ye so challengd to missouri and texas and dont bring your stupid laws with yu!!

know henceforth tho we will shoot your loose dogs if they run our cattle or deer. freedom comes with a price.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:14 PM   #5
wojownik
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Springfield customer service should take care of you. Can you post a pic of the damaged area?
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:22 PM   #6
Sauer Grapes
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First off, I love a lot of things about Maryland, their gun laws ain't one of them.
Second, if the gun doesn't look new in every way, have them find one that does or get your money back. I understand you want the gun, but grow up. The case being beat up is an issue. The gun having a defect is an issue.
You wouldn't buy anything else that way, what's different here, Hmmm?
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:55 PM   #7
Hurryin' Hoosier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauer Grapes View Post
First off, I love a lot of things about Maryland, their gun laws ain't one of them.
Yeah. Beretta's not real thrilled with them, either.
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:38 PM   #8
Baron66
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That trigger defect may be the only reason you were able to get ahold of the gun. Be thankful that it's there, and get it fixed under warranty.
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:46 PM   #9
Jim Watson
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They Just Don't Care.
I ordered a Springfield that came in with flecks of rust on the alleged stainless steel slide.
It cleaned up pretty well on the store counter, so I accepted it. Good thing, they replaced it in the model lineup with a new model about $300 higher a few weeks after.
But it later took some gunsmithing to make it do what I wanted it to do, and would have thought I had a right to expect.
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
They Just Don't Care.
I ordered a Springfield that came in with flecks of rust on the alleged stainless steel slide.
It cleaned up pretty well on the store counter, so I accepted it. Good thing, they replaced it in the model lineup with a new model about $300 higher a few weeks after.
But it later took some gunsmithing to make it do what I wanted it to do, and would have thought I had a right to expect.

Stainless steel can and does rust.
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Old July 15, 2014, 11:57 PM   #11
Zach S
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I have never seen rust on 200 or 300 series stainless... The problem is that 201 and 304 (most common outside of firearms) is too soft for guns...

As a general rule, if a magnet will stick to it, it will rust. Some guns quicker than others. My Kimbers have held up well, my Para not so much, with Colt in between.
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Old July 16, 2014, 12:17 AM   #12
ljnowell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach S View Post
I have never seen rust on 200 or 300 series stainless... The problem is that 201 and 304 (most common outside of firearms) is too soft for guns...

As a general rule, if a magnet will stick to it, it will rust. Some guns quicker than others. My Kimbers have held up well, my Para not so much, with Colt in between.

I have seen many stainless firearms rust. It does happen.
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Old July 16, 2014, 12:35 AM   #13
Jim Watson
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I understand that Little Pearl of Internet Wisdom, but IN THE BOX?
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Old July 16, 2014, 01:49 AM   #14
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If I am paying for a new gun, I expect the gun to be in "new" condition.
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Old July 16, 2014, 04:09 AM   #15
ljnowell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I understand that Little Pearl of Internet Wisdom, but IN THE BOX?

Lol, no Jim I'm not making excuses for them, in fact that's inexcusable. I merely posted what I did because there is, in many cases, a misconception that stainless firearms can't rust.

For it to rust in the box brand new? Wow. They must have accidentally got some nasty stuff on it or they need a new metallurgist.
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Old July 16, 2014, 07:05 AM   #16
agtman
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Agree with the above comment that your Springer isn't "new," but possibly a demo model.

As you've described the condition of the box, that suggests the gun was just tossed in & shipped by the distributor to your LGS. I'd refuse it in that condition. Too many other options out there.

Tell your dealer to return it for an SA 1911 that's actually "new" - as in NIB and unscathed, unscratched or otherwise unblemished. If you get any guff, be prepared to walk.

Life's too short and quality firearms are too expensive to "settle" for subpar crap, even if the only issue is out-of-the-box esthetics.

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Old July 16, 2014, 07:32 AM   #17
BootBuckle
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Quote:
Wait-is the tiny mark on the trigger the entirety of the 'poor condition'?
That, and the poor condition of the case, yes. I haven’t given the firearm a thorough inspection yet—just stating what I saw and asking if I should be concerned.

Quote:
The gun is the least of your probs. a 4 hr course just to purchase a handgun?
Yep—total BS. Too many sheep and not enough brains in the MD cities...

Quote:
Springfield customer service should take care of you. Can you post a pic of the damaged area?
Picking the gun up on August 4th—will post pictures when I take possession.

Quote:
Second, if the gun doesn't look new in every way, have them find one that does or get your money back.
The gun has been paid in full, and it has been shipped and received. I’ve been looking for this model “new” for quite some time, and now that I’ve finally found it, I’d rather go through the hassle of dealing with SA customer service than continue my hunt for a new Champion Operator.

Quote:
That trigger defect may be the only reason you were able to get ahold of the gun.
Never thought of that… sounds plausible, good point!

Quote:
They Just Don't Care.
Oh no! I have a lot of respect for SA, and I appreciate the innovative firearms and honorable customer service that they’ve brought to the industry. They will maintain my loyalty as long as they maintain the qualities which I admire. I’m ok with a goof-up on their end, so long as they are willing to make it right and minimize my hassle while doing so.

Quote:
Life's too short and quality firearms are too expensive to "settle" for subpar crap, even if the only issue is out-of-the-box esthetics.
I see what you are saying, but in the case of a hard-to-find firearm, I respectfully disagree.

Thanks everyone for your comments—I’m new to the community, and I’m impressed already. Mods, please change the name of the thread to “do stainless steel guns rust?”
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Old July 16, 2014, 07:59 AM   #18
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Springfield Customer Service is among the best.
I bought a used XD, very beat up, some clown tried to paint it, and it had an issue with the extractor.
I called Springfield to see if I could buy an extractor, and she told me it was a fitted part and I had to send it in.
I sent it in with a bad mag, wrapped in bubble wrap in a cardboard box.
It was back in 6 days from the day I sent it off, in a plastic box, with a new mag, new extractor and they didn't charge me a dime, they even paid the shipping both ways.
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Old July 16, 2014, 09:04 AM   #19
Fishbed77
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the gun is the least of your probs. a 4 hr course jus to purchase a handgun????
Wow. That is wildly unconstitutional.

Have these laws not been challenged in court yet?

I can imagine how well government-mandated classes would go over to exercise other constitutional rights (freedom of speech, voting, & religion, for example).
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Old July 16, 2014, 01:24 PM   #20
tipoc
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Well it's your call but...

Quote:
I know that SA is a quality company that will stand behind their product, but I'm frustrated about the pending hassle. If the gun was easier to come by, and if I hadn't already paid in full, I'd simply tell them "no thanks" and order a different specimen of the same model. Obviously that isn't an option, and I'll likely take possession of the gun, disassemble/clean/lube/reassemble, fire 100 rounds through it, and send it off to the factory for warranty work.
It's a used gun. It isn't new in the box.

Take a close look at the box. It should not be all scuffed up. Look at the label on the box, it should described the gun that is inside the box (name, barrel length, color, etc.), it's product number and it's serial number. If those things don't match the gun then that ain't the box for the gun. It's just a box.

Now look at the gun. It already has one mark on it that you noticed. Was the mark made before the finish was applied or after? If before the company let a small mark on the gun pass through. If after, the gun was damaged after shipping. Are there any other mars, flaws etc. Does it come with packing lube? Was it wrapped in plastic or packing material from the plant?

If the gun ain't new you don't have to pay full new gun price. Just because you already paid in full for it does not mean you have to take it if it arrives in unacceptable condition. Anything less than a new gun is unacceptable, unless they sell it as a used gun. Demo models are discounted routinely.

Look, there is always another good gun. Always. No reason to pay full price for a gun that ain't new. Then knowingly pay more to ship it off for repairs.

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Old July 16, 2014, 02:18 PM   #21
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If the case and gun had been damaged upon inspection I might not have taken possession. Let the gun store deal with it. I'm not inclined to buy a damaged gun (that is supposed to be new and without defect) and then have to deal with getting it fixed. What? Now I'm thinking I might have misread your post because why would you complete that sale?
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Old July 16, 2014, 04:20 PM   #22
EAJ
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Sorry to hear of your experience. Hope you’re able to resolve the issue to your satisfaction. The three that I own arrived in pristine condition in new cases. Very nice 1911.

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Old July 16, 2014, 04:25 PM   #23
tipoc
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EAJ,

I'd return that gun! It's got holes in the trigger!

tipoc
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Old July 16, 2014, 09:32 PM   #24
BootBuckle
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Quote:
If the case and gun had been damaged upon inspection I might not have taken possession.
I haven't taken possession yet--currently planning on taking possession on August 4th. I'll be at the LGS on July 26th to take my HQL. While there, I'll see if the owner is around, and have her (don't be sexist, fellas) take a look at the box and pistol and see what she thinks. Hopefully, she'll give me a discount or send it back to SA for me no questions asked. If she gives me any grief about it, I'll suck up my pride and say "no deal". If the deal doesn't end up going through, perhaps I'll pick up a new TRP instead. I'm not waiting another year or two for another Champion Operator to pop up. Hell, maybe I'll just save myself some money and get a Ruger SR1911 instead of a Springer...
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Old July 17, 2014, 04:32 AM   #25
rhinoh
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Why can't the dealer send it in for repair, right away?
If you can't take possession until AUG 4 it likely would be back by then.....
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