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Old July 26, 2014, 07:18 PM   #26
GLOOB
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Quote:
1. The internal frame of the Steyr is MUCH more solid and substantial than that of the Glock. No comparison.
Are you sure this is an advantage? It would be better if the gun were more inherently and/or practically accurate because of it. Or more durable.

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2. The frame rails of the Steyr are shaped to provide a better frame/slide fit than the Glock.
Same as above. OTOH, it might be a downside if the gun were more prone to jamming. I have heard of a Steyr seizing after heating up because of the slide to frame fit. This was made possible by the angled rails and tight fit, apparently. I'm sure the gun broke in fine, though.

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5. The Steyr has regular rifling, much more cast bullet/reloading friendly than the Glocks polygonal rifling.
This is a double-edged blade. My Glocks with stock barrels are my absolute favorite handguns, head-and-shoulders above the rest, for shooting cast bullets. Exceptional accuracy and no fouling or cleaning, whatsoever. When you get the load right, Glock barrels are the best for cast bullets, period, no contest. Maybe I should say "if." Some folks aren't mechanically inclined.

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6. The Steyr M40 has much better chamber support than the early G22 and G23's
Compared to the Steyr M40's made in the 80's, the early G22/23's have much better everything.

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7. The Steyr has a better fit and finish than the glock.
I admit I don't like the finish they're putting on the current glocks. I prefer the finish on the 90's through 2010 Glocks.
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8. The Steyr has a much lower bore axis than the Glock.
This is another double-edged sword. Low bore axis is one of the reasons that the G23 is snappy for some people. You can have too much of a good thing. I love my Glocks, but my favorite shooter in 40SW is a different platform with a slightly higher bore axis and straighter grip angle. Even though it's lighter than a G23, it shoots softer to me. Almost the same as a G19.

Last edited by GLOOB; July 26, 2014 at 07:35 PM.
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Old July 26, 2014, 07:45 PM   #27
Slater
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Steyr and Walther both could be said to be kind of "under the radar" for a long time.

Walther seems to have hit a home run with the PPQ (and to a somewhat lesser extent with it's new entry-level PPX, which is still a good gun). With those new products, Walther appears to be gaining momentum in the marketplace.

Steyr, for whatever reason, still seems to escape many folk's notice. Their lack of publicity probably doesn't help.
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Old July 26, 2014, 07:46 PM   #28
GLOOB
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I don't know if it's a sear issue, or if the lack of a striker block combined with harmonic vibrations in the striker spring allows it to "bounce" and come off the sear unintentionally.
A striker block ala Glock would not fix this (although it would make such a gun safer.) When you have the trigger staged, the striker block is bypassed.

This problem is simply due to sear geometry and/or metallurgy.

A sear should have slightly positive engagement surfaces, such that if you press the trigger just shy of the breaking point and then let go, the sear will return to start point. If the geometry is bad, the sear will stay where it is, hanging on the edge of firing where a vibration can set it off. Also, if the gun resets too close to that edge on its return stroke, that could also cause problems. Ideally, the trigger will not reset until the point where the sear will fully engaged.

The lack of a striker block is really only an issue if the sear were to break off. Or the gun were to be dropped hard enough to jump the sear. Or if the gun were dropped hard enough for the slide to break away from the frame, thus removing the sear (which is on the frame half) from holding back the striker (which is on the slide half). . . . .. Or if the sear engagement is so rounded over that it can hang on the edge of firing, and then the gun is dropped! Ohh... combined with your experience, I bet this is the reason for the Steyr safety recall. Certain guns were probably let out with inferior metallurgy in the striker/sear engagement and were rounding over. And/or some guns were resetting too early on the return.

Last edited by GLOOB; July 26, 2014 at 07:59 PM.
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Old July 26, 2014, 08:42 PM   #29
EvilGenius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOOB View Post
A striker block ala Glock would not fix this (although it would make such a gun safer.) When you have the trigger staged, the striker block is bypassed.

This problem is simply due to sear geometry and/or metallurgy.

A sear should have slightly positive engagement surfaces, such that if you press the trigger just shy of the breaking point and then let go, the sear will return to start point. If the geometry is bad, the sear will stay where it is, hanging on the edge of firing where a vibration can set it off. Also, if the gun resets too close to that edge on its return stroke, that could also cause problems. Ideally, the trigger will not reset until the point where the sear will fully engaged.

The lack of a striker block is really only an issue if the sear were to break off. Or the gun were to be dropped hard enough to jump the sear. Or if the gun were dropped hard enough for the slide to break away from the frame, thus removing the sear (which is on the frame half) from holding back the striker (which is on the slide half). . . . .. Or if the sear engagement is so rounded over that it can hang on the edge of firing, and then the gun is dropped! Ohh... combined with your experience, I bet this is the reason for the Steyr safety recall. Certain guns were probably let out with inferior metallurgy in the striker/sear engagement and were rounding over. And/or some guns were resetting too early on the return.
That makes a lot of sense to me.

The bold parts seemed to jive best with what I found.
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Old July 26, 2014, 10:53 PM   #30
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http://www.steyrarms.com/nc/news/ite...recall-notice/
I wonder if your pistol was one of these.
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Old July 27, 2014, 11:38 PM   #31
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I haven't shot my M9 in quite a while, but I keep seeing this thread. I'm gonna have to break it out and spend some quality time at the range.
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Old July 28, 2014, 10:51 PM   #32
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Many throw brass at your head. I own an l9 a c9 and a m40 and m357.

M was designed around the .40 s&w. Unlike about every other gun designed around a 9mm and then chambered upwards. It's a sturdy design with little issue other than brass at your head. Glocks are pretty ergonomic unless your in love with the 1911 grip angle and refuse to adjust. Steyrs are a bit more ergonomic. M357 is the softest shooter out there. Same with the m40. Course that comes with a price and many find the guns ugly. Same goes with the trap sights. I find them forgiving for combat shooting...many want their sights they are used to and so there is more dislike piled on.

It's not just marketing fail that holds steyr back. It's niche products that don't accommodate many many shooters.


Btw it was the caracal c that has design flaws that could not be fixed. The f's are fine once the recall was done. I still got one. Course the entire lines were dropped for the new ones that are still in limbo.......
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Old July 29, 2014, 12:36 AM   #33
Girodin
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Quote:
Are you sure this is an advantage? It would be better if the gun were more inherently and/or practically accurate because of it. Or more durable.
Well I do own a G17 duty gun that with a frame that broke during a hands on incident. Can I say a steyr frame wouldn't have broken in the same way in that event. I cannot say with certainty, but it sure seems possible.

Quote:
Low bore axis is one of the reasons that the G23 is snappy for some people.
How does the low more axis make the gun snappy. I'm not trying to be cute, I'd genuinely like to hear an explanation.
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Old July 30, 2014, 02:38 PM   #34
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Think 44 magnum revolver. Without the high axis and muzzle flip, it would be unbearable to shoot. Some of the SA styles, in particular, are made with smooth grips designed to roll in your grip, even. This allows the gun to absorb more of that recoil, and what is left is redirected upwards to a degree, lifting your arms up rather than pushing directly back into your shoulder sockets and ultimately your eyeballs.

The low bore axis works great for lower recoil weapons.. A lightweight gun with high recoil will transmit recoil directly back to your hands, arms, shoulders. This can lead to an uncomfortable sting and numbness in the hands and more push to the upper body. Anything that moves the head or affects balance makes follow up shots slower. Also, instead of the sights moving straight up/down, they are more prone to pushing off to the right/left in a jarring way that is less prone to coming back to original POA as predictably/consistently. This line of reasoning is what equates with my experience.

Sometimes, more muzzle flip is good. There's a point where it is better to be able to maintain head/eye stability and balance and watch those sights take that very slightly longer time to come back to target than to suffer the shock and try to find the sights again. If you're a bigger guy, you can absorb more of the recoil, yourself. If you are lighter, then there's nothing you can do about it. The direct recoil is going to move you.

Last edited by GLOOB; July 30, 2014 at 02:58 PM.
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