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Old July 15, 2014, 06:26 PM   #1
jamal28
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s&w m&p hate

Why is there so much hate towards the m & p from others gun owners including those that own glocks
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Old July 15, 2014, 06:43 PM   #2
kcofohio
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Might I inquire if you are asking this as in why you shouldn't get one? Or because you have one and want to know why certain people are downing the M&P?
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Old July 15, 2014, 06:48 PM   #3
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I don't see much hate. I see a whole lot of love. And I have personal experience with what seems to be an endemic reliability problem with some models, especially the Pro.

But they're great guns to shoot when working well and, except for the reliability issues, I hear pretty much no one "dissing" them.
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Old July 15, 2014, 06:53 PM   #4
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I also like M&P's quite well. There are some little things I wish S&W would change, but there are little things I'd change on most factory pistols if I had my druthers.
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Old July 15, 2014, 06:56 PM   #5
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I've owned two. The main problem I have with them is just the trigger. I really don't like it. On the one i currently own I have an Apex aluminum trigger and duty carry kit installed and it is wonderful. It points naturally for me and I find it extremely easy to shoot. As far as reliability problems, I haven't had any. I do find that when loading M&P magazines the followers have a tendency to tilt when loading the first couple of rounds if I'm not careful but it has never caused any problems or malfunctions while shooting.
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:07 PM   #6
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Kcofohio i was refering to the hate it gets from the owners of glocks and sig. By the way i do plan on buying one real soon im lookin at an atlanta pd trade in but cant decide whether i want to buy it
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:27 PM   #7
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Some people would complain if you hung them with a brand new rope. I personally liked both the 9mm full size I shot as a rental and the 9mm compact it inspired me to buy. This gun never malfunctioned in any way.
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:31 PM   #8
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Smith & Wesson, being based in Massachusetts, has let politicians guide their manufacturing and design. For example, they put 12-16 pound triggers on their M&P pistols.

This kind of engineering was prompted by politicians, not gun designers. This breaks a fundamental rule of gun safety which says never to point a gun at anything unless you intend to shoot it because a 12 pound trigger, even even the most expert hands, will cause the muzzle to move off target when firing.

This "safety" feature actually makes the gun more dangerous and requires the owner to get a trigger job done on it.
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:44 PM   #9
Sam1911
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There are models with 12-16 lb. trigger pulls? I didn't know that. I've certainly never seen one. I have seen the Glocks with "New York" triggers and some even heavier, but I didn't know that S&W did that with the M&Ps, too.

The idea that the politicians are guiding the design process of a gun manufacturer strikes be as foolish hogwash, but if you have some proof that they are letting politicians design their guns I will retract my assumption that the idea is pure crap.
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:49 PM   #10
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They have to make some models with the 10-12lb triggers for the states that require it. The triggers in the normal models are half that.
Why do Glock/Sig owners hate on S&W? The same reason Ford and Dodge owners hate on GM and vise versa.
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Old July 15, 2014, 07:59 PM   #11
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Military and Police hate? Glocks.....

I don't understand the ? .
I don't hate the Smith & Wesson M&Ps. I have owned 02 pistols, a full size 9x19mm with NMS & a ambi safety. I had a M&P Compact .45acp that I sold in 2013. Both pistols were fine.
I'd buy a new FDE format .45acp or a "no thumb safety" Shield in 9mm.
I have seen recent(2014 era) M&P models with awful triggers & poor QC.

Can these problems be fixed? With David Bowie custom work or Apex Tactical parts, yes.

If Smith & Wesson got the act together & improved QC the consumers/buyers would notice.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:03 PM   #12
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I'm still curious where these haters are? I regularly meet up with groups of 40-200 die-hard handgunners and while each one has his/her preferences, I really don't hear any general or regular negative comments about any of the common specific brands.

To be fair, very few competitive shooters are still rockin' SIGs these days, so maybe I'm just not tuned in to that group, such as it is. But I certainly know a lot of Glock shooters. Most of them have something between grudging respect, equitable affection, or even wistful admiration (only tempered by distrust) of the M&P. Almost all will admit it is a great-shooting gun.

It really bugs some of them/us that Smith has had such a hellacious time getting the extractors to work right and solving a few other little problems, especially in the Pro guns, because a lot of guys NOT shooting M&Ps wish they felt like they could move into that platform, or go back to them.

I'll admit to being in that camp. The fastest IPDA Classifier time I ever recorded was when I borrowed a plane-jane 4" M&P 9 from a pal to see if I liked it. They are FANTASTIC shooting guns, when they're working right.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:23 PM   #13
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jamal, I have have mainly seen decent reviews of police trade-ins. Handle one and see if it is you.

If you don't like the trigger (may have a gritty feel), like metioned in another post, Apex Tactical has trigger kits to fix that. That is what I did with my wife's M&P40. It has been a reliable gun.

BTW, the original gun comes with 3 grips that you can swap out to fit your hand. Some of the police trade-ins may not. S&W may sell you those upon request.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:37 PM   #14
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No hate here.

I shot mine factory stock for a while, with no issues, even with little cleaning. I eventually swapped in an Apex extractor when I heard some were having trouble with the factory extractor. Also did a home action job on it. Otherwise, no issues.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:46 PM   #15
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Reliability issues? 1st I've heard it. Of course my M&P's are all 3 years old or older.
As for triggers, I've only owned a couple guns that I felt didn't need some polishing. Production polymer guns. I think people's expectations are too high IMHO. Everybody wants Wilson Combat quality in a budget firearm, ain't happening, sorry.
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Old July 15, 2014, 08:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enine View Post
They have to make some models with the 10-12lb triggers for the states that require it. The triggers in the normal models are half that.
Why do Glock/Sig owners hate on S&W? The same reason Ford and Dodge owners hate on GM and vise versa.
What states require 10-12 lb. triggers? Name one. That sounds like the biggest line of BS I've ever seen here.
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HexHead View Post
What states require 10-12 lb. triggers? Name one. That sounds like the biggest line of BS I've ever seen here.
Ummm...Massachusetts (as people mention here). 940 CMR 16.00 which make it a "deceptive practice" if certain features aren't included:

"...such mechanisms shall include, but are not limited to: raising trigger resistance to at least a ten pound pull, altering the firing mechanism so that an average five year old child's hands are too small to operate the handgun, or requiring a series of multiple motions in order to fire the handgun."
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireInCairo View Post
Smith & Wesson, being based in Massachusetts, has let politicians guide their manufacturing and design. For example, they put 12-16 pound triggers on their M&P pistols.

This kind of engineering was prompted by politicians, not gun designers. This breaks a fundamental rule of gun safety which says never to point a gun at anything unless you intend to shoot it because a 12 pound trigger, even even the most expert hands, will cause the muzzle to move off target when firing.

This "safety" feature actually makes the gun more dangerous and requires the owner to get a trigger job done on it.
Not true
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:49 PM   #19
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^^ TennJed, the post you quote above (8) makes several separate points. Which one(s) is/are false?
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Old July 15, 2014, 09:51 PM   #20
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I don't hate them, just really don't like the hinged trigger feel personally.
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Old July 15, 2014, 10:04 PM   #21
FireInCairo
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I'm not a S&W basher or hater. I actually recommended the M&P 15 rifle to someone the other day.

But.. When it comes to pistols, S&W kau-towed to policians in Massachusetts. They require a 10+ trigger pull on pistols:
http://www.smithandwessonforums.com/...gger-pull.html

That's not the worst of it, though. There are plenty of reports of guns with pulls weighing in at up to 16 pounds!

Here is a quote from a discussion on this topic:

"In order to be Ma compliant the trigger needs to be at least 10 lbs. S&W went a little overboard and turned out at trigger that exceeds even that."

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...+weight+pounds
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Old July 15, 2014, 10:17 PM   #22
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Certainly not a hater here. M&P is my favorite pistol I've shot/owned, though it's a bit marginal. I tend to shoot it a lot better than anything else but I think that's largely due to the fact that I just have more practice with that gun. To me people largely get a little too attached to their gun model these days. The reality is that most of them work fine and for utility purposes you'll not likely know the difference.
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Old July 15, 2014, 10:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MedWheeler View Post
^^ TennJed, the post you quote above (8) makes several separate points. Which one(s) is/are false?
All of them. Politicians are not guiding product development. No 12-16lbs trigger pull, and even though i wouldn't advise a 12lbs a person could learn to use it safely.

So back to my original point. Not true. None of it
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Old July 15, 2014, 10:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
But.. When it comes to pistols, S&W kau-towed to policians in Massachusetts. They require a 10+ trigger pull on pistols:
http://www.smithandwessonforums.com/...gger-pull.html

That's not the worst of it, though. There are plenty of reports of guns with pulls weighing in at up to 16 pounds!
That's a trigger modification that's on the MA compliant models ONLY, and not on ALL of the M&P pistols as you're asserting. Would you prefer they not make a compliant model and not sell their flagship pistol to residents of MA?

Was the Ruger SR9 designed by politicians? They have a MA compliant version of it.

What about every pistol manufacturer in the US that offers handguns with 10 round mags for states that have those simpler regulations: Are they kowtowing and letting politicians design their pistols?
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Old July 15, 2014, 10:51 PM   #25
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My Walther PPS, which was distributed by S&W, had a trigger well over 12 pounds. They, too, are well-known for absurdly heavy triggers in Massachusetts.

If the rule is 10 pound minimum, there's no sense in going beyond that.
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