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Old July 16, 2014, 10:00 PM   #1
Rembrandt
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Shot the Boberg XR45......Wow!

Coworker got his Boberg XR45 yesterday, went to the range today and tried it out. This was the first shipment of the new 45's. Predict this will soon be the benchmark by which compact 45's will be measured. Been carrying a XR9S for over a year and couldn't more pleased.....but the 45 is simply Wow! Extremely accurate, full mag cut the center right out of the target.

230 grain ball ammo, empty case mouths were a little bent up. Performance is outstanding....Arne Boberg has hit a home run with his 45.

http://www.bobergarms.com/

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Old July 16, 2014, 10:20 PM   #2
Go For Broke
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What's the price on these things. I seem to recall rather high for such a low capacity handgun.

How do you plan to employ it?

Based on a cost benefit analysis, Is it worth it?

I heard a guy say something about a similar gun, he said, "An answer in search of a question".
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Old July 16, 2014, 10:22 PM   #3
NormH3
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What price would you put on your life or your loved one's?
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Old July 16, 2014, 10:25 PM   #4
Jorg Nysgerrig
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The Boberg is an interesting piece. I'd like to shoot one. The "bull pup" type configuration seems like a good idea on paper.

Quote:
I heard a guy say something about a similar gun, he said, "An answer in search of a question".
Which means, "I don't understand the use case or appeal, therefore I think no one else will either." It's pretty much the laziest comment someone can make as a form of dismissal.

Quote:
What price would you put on your life or your loved one's?
And this is the laziest comment when it comes to discussing price. Are you really implying that those who carry a $500 Glock only think the lives of their families are worth $500?

Tell me, NormH3, how much have you spent on all your equipment and training. Is that how much your loved ones' lives are worth?

Last edited by Jorg Nysgerrig; July 16, 2014 at 10:36 PM.
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:02 PM   #5
barnbwt
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Good to hear; I'd assumed the bullet pull-out issues would only get worse as bullet weight went up (more recoil, and more bullet momentum to yank it out the case).

That gun is supposedly rated past Rowland or some crazy nonsense --not that you'd want to actually shoot that!

Quote:
It's pretty much the laziest comment someone can make as a form of dismissal.
That line is also one of my personal peeves. Modern American consumers expect every new product to immediately solve every issue of the past, as well as so many in the present, that to deny its immediate superiority-in-every-way to the predecessor, you'd have to be an idiot. All this just to consider it as an "unproven alternative." Just yuck.

"What price would you put on your life or your loved one's? You can't put a price on your life or your loved one's. Always, never, forget that" --Paraphrasing Sterling Archer

I take less issue with this laziness, since it's more intended to diffuse arguments with cheapskates who tend to resent guns more expensive than they are personally willing to shell out. The former is meant to start fights by denigrating an otherwise-functional alternative under discussion.

The 9mm models are just under/just over a grand. Smaller is more expensive, here. As far as cost/benefit, the gun is well-past the point of inflection where you get less for less money (it's got a smaller side-profile than a Rohrbaugh, but is heavier/fatter and doesn't cost 2000$ like those, if you can find them, or require frequent spring changes)

TCB
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
It's pretty much the laziest comment someone can make as a form of dismissal.
It's basically the same argument as: "If it saves one life then ...<fill in the blank>."

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513305
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Old July 16, 2014, 11:45 PM   #7
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
NormH3
What price would you put on your life or your loved one's?
There should be a Sticky on what gets a user banned for life from THR. On top of that list should be the above quote.
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Old July 17, 2014, 12:20 AM   #8
chuckpro
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I like the idea of this firearm just because it is out of the box thinking. Everyone is looking for something different in a firearm. I have several that i like but they all compromise in one way or another.


Rembrandt
How is the trigger? And it looks like it has a high bore axis, does the 45 Jump around lot, it may just be the picture i have never fired one.
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Old July 17, 2014, 12:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
It's pretty much the laziest comment someone can make as a form of dismissal.
I'm glad other folks think this as well. I feel like every day, someone on the interwebs is telling me that *insert gun or cartridge they don't like* is just an answer to a question no one asked.... Each time I read that phrase my blood pressure spikes a littler higher.

As an aside, I remember when the Boberg designer first came on THR talking about this pistol he was designing. It's cool to see an idea flow from inception all the way to commercialization and product line expansion.
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Old July 17, 2014, 01:54 AM   #10
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nice.. It would be nice if they could mass produce and get it in the $600-$700, so it would be a simi-affordable competitor to Sigs and Karhs. It'd fly off the self.
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Old July 17, 2014, 03:15 AM   #11
RX-178
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I've never fired one, but in regards to chuckpro's questions, I can comment on just the photograph, the bore axis looks significantly LOWER than my Walther PPS, which is on my desk right now, opposite my mouse. The PPS has a good deal more frame above the trigger, if that makes any sense as a description?

Also from my experience shooting and loading .45 cartridges, I would anticipate that there would be more recoil than the 9mm, but the recoil will be gentler...... if /that/ makes any sense?

9mm and especially .40 in pocket guns (my PPS is in .40 BTW) tend to just hit you really hard, and then it's over with, and in the case of the .40, it actually feels like it's trying to twist your arm a little bit in the process. With .45, you kind of have a moment to process it as it happens, you can feel the recoil start, and then feel it stop. And now I'm REALLY not sure if I'm making any sense.

I'm really hoping Rembrandt gives a better answer than mine soon.
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Old July 17, 2014, 07:02 AM   #12
Rembrandt
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The recoil doesn't appear to be unreasonable, perhaps because it's manageable. By that I mean the gun grips into the web of your hand so well, combined with the lower rear bore axis, it strikes you as having positive control. Not at all like some compacts that you "re-grip" after each round so you can get the next shot off.

We purposely shot both the 45 and 9mm Bobergs side by side for a recoil comparison. The 45 recoil was a bit more as we expected, but pleasantly and fully controllable.

The whole recoil/control issue found on many compact guns has been eliminated by Arne's unique design. A design that combines two things, grips the frame deeper into the web of your hand and putting the barrel further back.

Overall size is slightly larger than the 9mm Boberg, which was to be expected, but far smaller than other compact 45's. If you're a 45 fan, you'll love this gun.
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Old July 17, 2014, 08:09 AM   #13
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I think you read more into my comment than is there. It was a simple question and never meant to offend anyone that purchases a cheaper firearm. Perhaps I should have worded it differently.
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Old July 17, 2014, 08:16 AM   #14
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When does the KelTec version come out for those of us who prefer the more affordable options?
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Old July 17, 2014, 02:24 PM   #15
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Hickok45 has a pretty good review on the XR9-S at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckyUmldwiDo
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Old July 17, 2014, 03:42 PM   #16
MedWheeler
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NormH3 quotes from the book of tired, old, beat-down cliches with this:

Quote:
What price would you put on your life or your loved one's?
I never found the true algorithm behind this. So, you spend 10,000 dollars on your gun. Is that all your life and your family is worth?

What are you driving them around in? The latest European performance sedan, complete with bulletproof shielding, fire-suppression systems, and an interior that turns into a big fluffy cushion in the even of a collision? (And you're trading it in for a new one every year?)

I've heard your poor assertion spill from the mouths of some people at gun shows who arrived at them in some pretty questionable rides. This is despite the fact that every one of them is at greater risk of harm from a traffic incident than as a result of a random violent crime.

He asked about the price for a reason. Perhaps he wanted to know if he should trade his XDs-45 for one, even though the XDs can do the same job for likely less than half the price.

Edit: I see you (Norm) got Jorg Nysgerrig fired up as well before I even got to the thread. He demonstrated in post 4.
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Old July 17, 2014, 04:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
nice.. It would be nice if they could mass produce and get it in the $600-$700, so it would be a simi-affordable competitor to Sigs and Karhs. It'd fly off the self.
Why? Like Rohrbaugh, he sells every one he can make at his asking price

Quote:
A design that combines two things, grips the frame deeper into the web of your hand and putting the barrel further back.
With that frame design, is it, in your opinion, better reserved then for a belt holster as opposed to a pocket one?
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Old July 17, 2014, 04:37 PM   #18
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Very cool. I'd love to try one out.
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Old July 17, 2014, 05:51 PM   #19
silicosys4
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If they fixed the bullet pulling issue so the gun runs all types of ammo, and not just manufacturer approved brands, I'm interested.
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Old July 17, 2014, 06:31 PM   #20
Rembrandt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneounceload
With that frame design, is it, in your opinion, better reserved then for a belt holster as opposed to a pocket one?
The 45's larger size would require some pretty big pockets, maybe cargo pants. I think the 9mm is a better option for pocket carry, although I carry in an OWB.

One other side note, after I left the range my co-worker continued giving the Boberg a workout using some cheap ammo. He did experience case-bullet separation a couple times. This is when the round is being pulled from the magazine, the bullet begins to slide out of the case. Boberg recommends using better quality ammo with a crimp. One could probably take any uncrimped ammo and run it through a crimping die. It may be more pronounced in the 45 because the heavier mass of the bullet and slide. I consider that more an ammo issue than a problem with the gun.
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Old July 17, 2014, 06:35 PM   #21
george burns
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Until it's in use for a year or two, I would stay far away. If the bullet is pulled from that case it is hard to clear it for another shot. This is something that was happening with these guns a few months ago when I read a review from one of the regular reviewers, "may have been Guns and Ammo". No way I would chance that yet, money is a relative thing, I read about a French watchmaker who is the rage these days, his watches are 2 million dollars each, he makes a cheap line at $690,000.00, he will only make 10 of that model this tear, the tennis player, "Nadal" has one, does that mean his time is more valuable?
I would not carry any gun for protection unless it had "street time" on it for at least 2 years, we know nothing about how this gun reacts to being dropped or roughed up in a scuffle. Take your time with important decisions.
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Old July 17, 2014, 07:11 PM   #22
ATLDave
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That gun would be the end of my left thumb!
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Old July 17, 2014, 07:19 PM   #23
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So if you bought a Boberg, ran it with the ammo it likes, and got 10,000 rounds through it without an issue, you'd want to wait two years to carry it?

Rokay....


Larry
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Old July 17, 2014, 11:10 PM   #24
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Okay, I spoke too soon; "answer in search of a...blah blah blah" is not my biggest peeve, in comparison to "If they'd just [incredibly unreasonable or oblivious request] I might be interested." It's not dismissive like the first, but it is even more dishonest; framing the requirement for success beyond reasonable parameters is a cowardly way to avoid admitting it is a quality product that rivals the choice you made (people are really defensive about their CCW choices, and actually tend to resent having to make choices between good options)

Show me a single gun anywhere close to that size that runs "all factory ammo reliably." At least Boberg is kind and honest enough to maintain a list of known safe ammo, so you don't have to find out on your own (like practically every other brand). The list is also a lot longer than most people think when they hear "factory approved." This isn't like the Seecamp which can only shoot that one load; it's practically every cartridge whose maker bothers to crimp it properly.

As to cost, the gun is made on a very small scale by fifth-axis machining. To those not in the know, that prices it slightly lower than cave-dwelling Druids with stones and files. You are for sure not paying for a name or advertising (not compared to a 1000$ 1911, anyway). And while I keep blowing my gun budget before I think to do so, I am dead-set on buying one of these because of the almost completely unique blend of entrepreneurialism, clever design, quality workmanship, forthright factory service, owner/designer involvement with customers, and obscurity that make for an incredibly rewarding experience with a firearm and manufacturer.

"If they made the gun better than the one I have in every way, for less money, I might be interested once it has as many years' experience as my current choice will have by then"

TCB

Quote:
I read about a French watchmaker who is the rage these days, his watches are 2 million dollars each, he makes a cheap line at $690,000.00, he will only make 10 of that model this tear, the tennis player, "Nadal" has one, does that mean his time is more valuable?
I guarantee that Nadal's time is worth more than mine, quite possibly by 4-or-so orders of magnitude befitting such a watch

TCB
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Old July 17, 2014, 11:14 PM   #25
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So far I haven't found a brand that does not work in my PM9 or my LC9.
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