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Old July 23, 2014, 10:30 PM   #1
Praxidike
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Ranges & Gun Shows: No Loaded Weapons!

This is just something I think about when I go to gun shows and my local ranges. Does anyone else find it kind of hypocritical when all these pro-gun, pro-open carry, pro NRA, etc gun shows and gun shops forbid people from carrying a loaded firearm in their places of business, but are quick to condemn places like Target and the like on their company's Facebook page and/or weblog for doing the exact same thing? Maybe it's just me though...
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Old July 23, 2014, 10:38 PM   #2
lxd55
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no, do you know what hypocritical is?
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Old July 23, 2014, 10:40 PM   #3
docsleepy
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Gun stores are a place where people pull triggers.

Good reason not to have loaded weapons except on the hips of the proprietor.
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Old July 23, 2014, 10:45 PM   #4
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I find it perfectly logical.

I have been in two gun shows in the last few years when some moron fired an 'unloaded' gun inside a crowded hall full of people.

Besides that?

Show promoters are having a hard enough time finding large public buildings they can rent for gun shows that will even allow unloaded guns.

Let alone buy enough liability insurance for a two-day event to cover the proceeds with loaded guns allowed.

It is not hypocritical.
It is simple business economics if you want to put on a gun show.
Or afford liability insurance for a business so you can stay in business.

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Old July 23, 2014, 11:06 PM   #5
Willie Sutton
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Remember that 50% of the people you meet are below average....

Guns and the sum of all those averages concentrated in large numbers? Uhh..... <sigh>...


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Old July 23, 2014, 11:13 PM   #6
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Nope not at all. I get why you might think about that, but the way I see most people handle guns at gun shows and gun shops for that matter (including salesmen) makes me think the no loaded guns in here is a very good idea. Its a lot of guns in one place and though we're taught to always assume every gun is loaded, most assume every gun is unloaded at these events.
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Old July 23, 2014, 11:30 PM   #7
NoVA Shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docsleepy View Post
Gun stores are a place where people pull triggers.

Good reason not to have loaded weapons except on the hips of the proprietor.
Good point. But what about CC? Why would I un-holster my carry gun (not to mention pull the trigger) in a gun store? What about a gun store is different than any other store or location I go to? I would no more whip out my carry gun to show a friend/acquaintance at a gun store than I would in the middle of a crowded restaurant. If I bring my carry gun into a gun shop with the intent to remove it from its holster, it’s only to fire it at the range (and there are strict safety rules for that). If I’m bringing it it for someone to look at it, then it’s not my carry gun that trip and will be unloaded and in a case.

If someone is taking there loaded carry weapon out for show and tell in public, well, I think more training is needed.
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Old July 23, 2014, 11:43 PM   #8
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I CCW in my LGS with no issues cause I keep it put up. I have no issues with Gun Show rules cause too many idiots show up at them.
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Old July 24, 2014, 12:09 AM   #9
Twiki357
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I wondered about that myself until I attended my first gun show about 7 years ago. After observing some of the yahoo’s at the shows, “NO LOADED GUNS” makes a lot of sense.
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Old July 24, 2014, 12:28 AM   #10
RustyShackelford
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Nope!....

Do some research on the recent gun show shooting in central PA.
I used to live in that general area & having NO GUNS or NO LOADED WEAPONS signs at venues isn't a bad a idea.

The owner/CEO of the gun show promotion firm told the media he never had any issues or problems prior the the incident.

FWIW, where I live now, a fairgrounds gun show lot was easy pickings for some clever crooks who stole a pile of guns(loaded & unloaded).
The event company claimed they had off duty cops(highway patrol) & a few "undercover" officers but it was a real scandal.

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Old July 24, 2014, 12:48 AM   #11
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Okay, if it's unsafe or not a "good idea" for people to carry loaded and holstered weapons into Gun Shops or Gun Shows, then why isn't it equally unsafe or a bad idea for these same people to open or conceal carry into other establishment? If some firearm owners can not handle a firearm safely while being at a firearm related events or establishments, then how can and why should Chipotle Grill, Target, Starbucks, or any other business trust gun owners who conceal or open carry into their establishment?
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Old July 24, 2014, 12:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVA Shooter View Post
Good point. But what about CC? Why would I un-holster my carry gun (not to mention pull the trigger) in a gun store? What about a gun store is different than any other store or location I go to? I would no more whip out my carry gun to show a friend/acquaintance at a gun store than I would in the middle of a crowded restaurant. If I bring my carry gun into a gun shop with the intent to remove it from its holster, it’s only to fire it at the range (and there are strict safety rules for that). If I’m bringing it it for someone to look at it, then it’s not my carry gun that trip and will be unloaded and in a case.

If someone is taking there loaded carry weapon out for show and tell in public, well, I think more training is needed.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ent-discharge/

Although I agree with your position, I offer up to you instances like this. Even the "Pros" can't keep their personal defense weapon holstered when they should.
While I agree that if you're shopping for accessories for your CCW, you should not be handling that particular firearm, find another to carry for the day. We both know that some will not abide by this rule. Heck, no live ammo is supposed to be in firearms and look how well we follow that rule.

But ultimately it comes down to the insurance.

On another note, have you seen anyone carrying outside the shows, just hanging out?
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Old July 24, 2014, 12:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxidike View Post
Okay, if it's unsafe or not a "good idea" for people to carry loaded and holstered weapons into Gun Shops or Gun Shows, then why isn't it equally unsafe or a bad idea for these same people to open or conceal carry into other establishment? If some firearm owners can not handle a firearm safely while being at a firearm related events or establishments, then how can and why should Chipotle Grill, Target, Starbucks, or any other business trust gun owners who conceal or open carry into their establishment?
Because while they shouldn't be, people are pulling out their CCWs every five seconds to see if it will fit a new holster, if the tac light they're looking at is too big, if the crimson trace laser fits right, if the 10 round mag for their .45 clashes with their fanny packs.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Field Tester View Post
Because while they shouldn't be, people are pulling out their CCWs every five seconds to see if it will fit a new holster, if the tac light they're looking at is too big, if the crimson trace laser fits right, if the 10 round mag for their .45 clashes with their fanny packs.
That makes some sense...
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:03 AM   #15
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Basically it seems that john q public wants to try holster fit on his carry gun or show how great an action job he has and things go south from there.
Most of the shops I frequent have signs honoring carrying of weapons but requiring that they remain holstered while there.
I know of one incident locally in which an experienced former LEO gunshop employee pulled a trigger and shot a fellow employee without clearing a rifle that was brought in by a customer.
I also have seen 2 gunshow incidents in which vendors ND'ed and I have found a 22 rifle with a loaded mag on a table before.
I'd say gunshows are about even with idiots being 1/2 vendors and the other attendees.
Either way I can see why there are restrictive requirements.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:03 AM   #16
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Some interesting thoughts for me coming across in this thread.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:09 AM   #17
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but making EVERY single person that is carrying, remove and unload their weapon when entering, and then reload and reholster their gun when leaving is safe? Thats why i dont patronize places that think its ok for them to ban guns, but get upset when other places do...
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:14 AM   #18
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Gun shows I can understand. I dont go anymore, and dont miss them. They looked too much like flea markets, didn't offer any better pricing, and I've seen enough bad gun handling at one show to last a lifetime.

Stores and ranges, I kinda understand. If not for the signs, "show and tell" can get nerve racking... The LGS I frequent has (had?) a "no loaded firearms" sign on the door, that accomplishes one thing: folks dont handle hot carry guns in the store. They either leave it in their car, unload it, or CC normally.

He knows I'm in the last group, but has only kinda brought it up once. He asked if another customer could see my holster and I said "yeah, let me borrow some ears so I can go in the range and clear my pistol." I never heard anything else about it, but I've never handled a hot pistol in the store either...

You would probably be amazed at the number of folks who think its okay to show off their carry gun because they're in a gun store.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32_d3gr33s View Post
but making EVERY single person that is carrying, remove and unload their weapon when entering, and then reload and reholster their gun when leaving is safe? Thats why i dont patronize places that think its ok for them to ban guns, but get upset when other places do...
if you do not like the rules, fine. just as long as you abide by them.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:29 AM   #20
lxd55
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Originally Posted by Praxidike View Post
That makes some sense...
as a range master at several gun shoots, the first thing you look for is to see if there is a mag in the well of a firearm. if you do you stop the person and tell them to please unload or leave. most unload,
some do not understand and ask you to explain. when this happens you say to them that we have a lot of people with firearms and you just cannot accept unknowns. the shows, shoots make there rules as does target or any other business or that is all. my house, my rules.

Last edited by lxd55; July 24, 2014 at 01:40 AM.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:30 AM   #21
Praxidike
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Originally Posted by Zach S View Post
Gun shows I can understand. I dont go anymore, and dont miss them. They looked too much like flea markets, didn't offer any better pricing, and I've seen enough bad gun handling at one show to last a lifetime.

Stores and ranges, I kinda understand. If not for the signs, "show and tell" can get nerve racking... The LGS I frequent has (had?) a "no loaded firearms" sign on the door, that accomplishes one thing: folks dont handle hot carry guns in the store. They either leave it in their car, unload it, or CC normally.

He knows I'm in the last group, but has only kinda brought it up once. He asked if another customer could see my holster and I said "yeah, let me borrow some ears so I can go in the range and clear my pistol." I never heard anything else about it, but I've never handled a hot pistol in the store either...

You would probably be amazed at the number of folks who think its okay to show off their carry gun because they're in a gun store.
I'm in the last group too. I normally CC. Come to think about it, the few times that I did need to see if a holster or a magazine fit my gun, I had the sales associate test the fit using one of the same model firearm from their display case instead of pulling out my holstered gun.

The funny thing about it is the employees at most LGS I've been to carry (what I assume to be loaded) handguns, and I've seen, on more than one occasion, them pulling out their own firearms to show to me, other customers, and or other sales associates...
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:31 AM   #22
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I was at one shop a few years ago (that is no longer open) that had a customer wanting to try a new holster and and drew his carry gun and cleared it at the counter with very poor muzzle discipline.
My last stop there since the owner acted as though it was fine.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:42 AM   #23
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Some interesting thoughts for me coming across in this thread.
? like what?
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:48 AM   #24
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That makes some sense...
Odd thing is that it kills the Libertarian inside of me to write this lol.
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Old July 24, 2014, 01:57 AM   #25
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True story; cars, planes, UAVs, jet-skis.....

true story; a event I bring up on forums from time to time makes the point....
I was in a medium size gun shop that I did not go into often. While looking at a few items, I saw two intoxicated people stumble in with a large case.
The couple(male-female, 50-60 years old, red as Maine lobsters) went up to a young sales clerk & asked him to check into a big revolver.
They opened the case & pulled out a huge Ruger Super-Redhawk .454 Casull. They both had slurred speech & acted very unstable.
I slowly went up to the couple & asked to inspect the Ruger .454 revolver. The woman handed me the firearm & I opened the huge cylinder. Thankfully the Super-Redhawk was empty .
People like the couple I met are part of the reason I don't work in a gun shop or pawn store.

I'd add too, that people can mistreat or abuse nearly anything. Cars, RVs, jets, motorcycles, UAVs(remote "quad copters"), power tools, etc. Those items are not outlawed or regulated but you can quickly lose your license to use them if caught.
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