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Old July 31, 2014, 12:06 AM   #26
TX Mudcat
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BCRider - That's good advice all the way around. I've been using the lubed felt wads between powder & ball, but when I try the smaller loads I'll bring some cornmeal or something...just in case.
I've also thought about the .457 ball. I usually get a very thin ring shaved off the 454 & it shoots pretty accurately, but I've been reading a lot lately & some folks are saying the same thing you are. I got about 150 454's left so it may be a week or 2 before I buy more, but next time I'll try the 457 & see how that works.
Are you recommending these so the ball is shaved somewhat evenly so it don't effect ballistics? Or is it another reason?
Curious...
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Old July 31, 2014, 02:25 AM   #27
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The larger ball will leave more bearing surface to contact the riflings, but it also increases the pressures a little too as there's more friction.
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Old July 31, 2014, 03:35 PM   #28
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Hmmm...alright. I'm sold. I'm gonna pick up some Hornady .457 balls this weekend & give EM a day in court. I'm assuming the extra pressure won't be enough to negatively effect accuracy. What about conicals? Those any good?
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Old July 31, 2014, 04:09 PM   #29
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Conicals seem to behave differently in different guns and by different people, but it's certainly going to depend on the twist of your barrel.

I get similar accuracy from RB's as I have with every other bullet from my Ruger. And my Remington does just as well with RB's as the 170 and 195 grn bullets I have for it.
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Old July 31, 2014, 07:17 PM   #30
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Interesting. I guess I don't see too much point trying conicals then. Just looking at different options.
I also haven't been putting any grease or Crisco over my cylinders. I reckon the ball makes a tight enough seal & haven't had any misfires or chain fires. I'm thinking when I take my pistol out on a hot day...I don't want all that grease leaking everywhere. So I've been doing powder, lubes felt & then ball. I did pick up some wonder seals (mostly for snake loads) but ain't used them yet.
What's your experience?
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:49 PM   #31
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A couple of thoughts about your BP snake pistol.
Snake shots are usually taken at close range measured in feet instead of yards so I'd think holding tight patterns should be easier.
Walking in the thickets can get rough and keeping a shot load tightly loaded can be a problem. I'd consider topping off your round with some melted beeswax.
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Old July 31, 2014, 10:52 PM   #32
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Welcome to our family Todd and Mudcat. Sit by our fire and tell us what you know and let's talk about what you don't know.
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Old July 31, 2014, 11:08 PM   #33
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Howdy Pancho. Well, I've just recently started shooting BP & love it! Just trying to learn as much as I can about it, as it relates to my hobbies & such; hunting, fishing, hiking, shooting stuff, etc. HA!
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Old July 31, 2014, 11:32 PM   #34
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I bought a custom wad punch from a retired machinist from another forum. He sells precisely the size you request for only $10 + shipping (assuming his price didn't go up as it's been nearly 2 years).

I also bought a length of hard felt from Durofelt.

I make my own wads, and I also make what's known as Gatofeo's #1 lube. He found in a gun magazine dating back to the 40's IIRC, and it was a formula for outside lubed BP bullets. I use it for most everything (rifle and pistol excluding patches for RB's in my rifle).

Adding some melted beeswax sounds like a wise move to me.

And I certainly like the idea of a snake shot load in a pistol. Considered it, but never pursued it.
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Old July 31, 2014, 11:35 PM   #35
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Unless you are hunting with it I don't see conicals as being all that worthwhile unless it's just something you fancy.

Mr. Beliveau, in his testing with a particular gun, found the conical more accurate, but that doesn't seem to be the norm.
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Old July 31, 2014, 11:44 PM   #36
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Nah...I reckon I'm gonna stay with the round balls. If it ain't broke, right?
That beeswax sounds like a pretty good idea though. I bow-hunt here in Texas & there's a lot of snakes & a lot of hogs. Wouldn't mind having maybe 2 cylinders loaded with snake-shot & 3 with the round balls, for the pigs.
I've also heard of people soaking felt in olive oil & such for their lubed wads. I still have a bunch from Cabela's. Smell like Bore Butter.
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Old August 1, 2014, 01:32 AM   #37
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re: conicals - Lee makes a set of molds for the various cap and ball calibers that are designed to seat straight - being beveled or thinner or something on the base - but still thick enough in the middle to seal everything up. I shoot them occasionally just for the novelty of it all, and I have one cap and ball revolver that is just insanely accurate with them for whatever reason. But if you don't cast I wouldn't bother going out and hunting down some pre-made.
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Old August 1, 2014, 12:24 PM   #38
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It's because of pigs that I use bullets as I'd much prefer the sectional density to help with penetration. Those that hunt hogs with pistols always recommend very heavy non expanding bullets.

And that's not to say a RB cannot do so as there's a fellow who runs with a group that use mostly percussion pistols to hunt hogs. Most use the Kaido bullets (240 or 255 grn which is a custom version of the Lee 255 grn .45 Colt bullet), but one fellow prefers 66 grns of 2F Triple 7 with a ball saying that the wound is much more devastating within 25 yds. Note he's using about twice as much powder as the rest of us (Colt Walker).

For anything you are intending on using on hogs I'd suggest 3F of Olde Eynsford by Goex, Swiss, or Triple 7. They are the only ones reliably set off in a percussion pistol that has a great amount go oomph. Many have stated these guns are no more powerful than a .38 Spl, and if you use any of the other powders they are likely right, but with the powders I mention you can easily obtain .44 Spl-.45 Colt levels.

Have you looked at Gatofeo's #1 lube? It's quite simple. All measured by weight it is 1 part mutton tallow, 1 part paraffin was (Gulf wax), and 1/2 part of beeswax. You use the double boiler method, which is to use a small sauce pan with a jar in it. You place your ingredients in the jar and heat it until it all melts. Stir well and use it for what you need. It hardens a bit once cooled.

I poured that into a little plastic food storage container and dropped my home cut wads, and with the tremendous amount I had left over I poured that into SWMBO's soap mold which gave me small bars that I cut into 6 chunks to use on my bullets by "coloring" in the lube grooves of my bullets (slow process but I enjoy it).

With as hard as it is once cooled (not quite as hard as beeswax) it may very well work as a means to hold your shot charges under recoil.

The wads you use for shot charges may need to be a little oversized so as to produce a bit more friction. For my .44/.45 cal pistols I use a punch that drops them at ~.457" IIRC.
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Old August 1, 2014, 02:43 PM   #39
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Well...I bow hunt hogs. I'm just thinking if I get a squealer that gets the others coming toward me. Just a few rounds to keep them discouraged from charging too much. I don't believe I'd ever actually hunt Texas hogs with a BP revolver.
Rodwah...that's good advice. I'll look into those seals & give em a shot. So that Old Eynsford packs quite a punch, huh? Very interesting. Still load 25-30gr?
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Old August 1, 2014, 03:53 PM   #40
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Check this out:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

From people's chronograph results Triple 7, Swiss, and Olde Eynsford give similar results when compared by volume. It always trumps any of the other powders by a fair margin.

Especially if I'm being charged I'd want superior penetration capabilities, and even more so were it a big one. A 250 lb hog may need some real discouraging! And maybe it's not necessary, but it certainly makes me feel better. Not to mention if there is no expansion a WFN design will certainly do more permanent damage than a RN/RB design. Of course one through the ear and it doesn't matter so much...
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:29 PM   #41
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Okay...what is "WFN"?
I currently load with Hodgdon Triple 7 fffg.
Any advice you can give to pack a bigger punch is much appreciated.
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:39 PM   #42
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Wide Flat Nose. In a bullet that does not expand the wider the nose the larger the permanent wound channel. Flash can stretch, but a flat nose will cut that portion out.

And if my pure lead WFN does expand it will begin at that point unlike the smaller "point" of a RN/RB design.

Many claim Triple 7 is finicky. It may be, but I don't notice problems, though I do what they say you shouldn't do, which is to compress it heavily. It's the only way I know mine are all loaded with the same consistency.

To avoid any potential problems you could use Olde Eynsford instead, which is much cheaper. I found that it doesn't compress as well as T7 or Pyrodex.
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:42 PM   #43
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There's a fella on this forum (DD4lifeusmc) who has a custom made mold that drops a 195 grn SWC that may do fairly well. They are rather inexpensive and worth trying out. He has a few different bullets.
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:43 PM   #44
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Wide Flat Nose...duh. Just caught myself. So a wfn conical may be a better way to go then? I suppose I could always carry my Judge & load the 45LC, but I like the idea of packing my BP pistol...especially on federal land.
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:49 PM   #45
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I worked with Accurate Molds to design my own bullets in which my main hunting bullet weighs 195 grns with a WFN that is only .460" long so as not to use up powder capacity. I did this will all 3 of my designs.
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:52 PM   #46
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In my opinion a WFN is the best design as it's what those who hunt hogs with handguns use, and for good reason. But others will say they've used the RN Lee conicals with great results. Bullet placement no doubt trumps everything, but bullet design is a fairly important factor too. If something means me harm I want to be able to harm it as much as possible.
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Old August 1, 2014, 04:55 PM   #47
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Check out Mr. Beliveau's 6 part video in which he tests Ruger Old Armies with a RB, Lee conical, and the 255 grn Kaido conical using both standard Goex and Triple 7 with reduced loads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

Note the velocity/energy differences despite a reduced load (which is questionable if it's necessary at all in any reproduction gun and much less so in a Ruger) and the penetration differences.
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Old August 1, 2014, 05:01 PM   #48
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Do you cast projectiles? It certainly opens up your choices and reduces your cost (eventually).
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Old August 1, 2014, 05:05 PM   #49
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I actually found that video last night. I've been hearing lots of different things from different folks regarding bullets/balls.
No, I don't cast my own. I'm pretty new at the world of BP, which is why I'm so full of questions. I like the idea of casting my own though. Do you sell those bullets you're talking about? I shoot a Pietta 1858 Remmy 5.5 for now. Am looking at some others to grab soon though too.
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Old August 1, 2014, 05:09 PM   #50
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This is my 195 grn WFN:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-195C-D.png

This is Lee's 255 grn .45 Colt bullet that Kaido has had customized to work in cap n ball pistols.

http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-452-255-rf.html

These are Lee's RN conicals:

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casti...l-cap-and-ball
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