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Old August 29, 2014, 08:47 PM   #1
HP-Sauce
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Does 9x18 have a future?

I have been wanting to get a Makarov PM and CZ82 for sometime now, however having to stock 9x18 cartridges have put me off so far. I don't own many guns and the ones I do I run them whenever I have a chance.

My inventory consist of several 9mm Luger and 1 .380ACP, and having to stock 9x18 is going to be a pain. Also recently the supply for 9x18 seems to be more difficult and the recent trade embargoes agains Russia seems be to bad news for cheap 9x18 too.

I know both the PM and CZ82 has .380 conversion possibility, but I don't see the point in that given there will not likely be any cost savings as .380 are getting more expensive and hard to find.

From what I can understand no new firearms are made in 9x18. So is there a future in 9x18? Are CZ's and PM relegated to the C&R realm?
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Old August 29, 2014, 08:51 PM   #2
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Q: Does 9x18 have a future?

A: No
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Old August 29, 2014, 09:19 PM   #3
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The CZ83 is a CZ82 chambered for .380 right out of the box.

I don't think you'll see any new guns chambered for 9x18, but there are millions of guns out there which are chambered for this round, and which are not going away any time soon either.
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Old August 29, 2014, 10:00 PM   #4
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No, but it had a good past.
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Old August 29, 2014, 10:22 PM   #5
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How many new production guns are made in .32 S&W Long, yet you can by ammo from at least six makers (Fed, Rem, Win, S&B, Magtech and PPU) without difficulty. This was true even before the .327 Mag has its flourish of activity.
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Old August 29, 2014, 10:42 PM   #6
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The short answer is the 9mm Makarov has no future as far as new pistols being produced. But the PMs were used for 50 years so there must be millions in circulation. The Russian and Eastern European ammo companies will still be making the ammo for a long time so I wouldn't worry about finding ammo.
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Old August 29, 2014, 10:51 PM   #7
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9 X 18mm Future

There are several inexpensive 9x18's out there in Military Surplus Land. Won't cost much if you jump in. No new guns made with that mm, that I know of, but will be around for a long time.

Suggestion, shoot a CZ-82, and you'll be hooked !
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Old August 29, 2014, 11:07 PM   #8
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I kinda like the fact that I can trim 9x19 brass down, load a 110 grain cast round nose. The case fire forms on the first loading, head size is identical, just no taper. It's a pain to trim 50 cases, though, so I mostly shoot steel cased cheap stuff I used to pick up at Academy, but haven't looked for it in a while.

My pistol is a P64. I'd like to get a CZ82, maybe a Hungarian PA63, too. These things are cheap, reliable, great collectors/shooters. I don't carry mine. I have carried it, but I have better carry guns. If you don't buy one now, you might not be able to in 15-20 years. Me, I'll be lucky to last another 15-20 years, just sayin'.
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Old August 30, 2014, 02:17 PM   #9
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It would be nice for someone- besides Privi Partisan- to mass produce affordable quality ammo- loaded on the warmish side- and keep it rolling. I always preferred it over the .380. But then, I like the Eastern Bloc oddballs.
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Old August 30, 2014, 02:24 PM   #10
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As long as anyone produces 0.365"-0.366" bullets, in the 90-110gr weight, 9x18 will be around. Even if cases aren't produced, they're easily made from 9x19. Casting is always an option.

I've got a CZ-82 as my EDC gun and I love it. It's extremely accurate with everything I've put through it and eats everything without a hiccup.

Matt
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Old August 30, 2014, 04:24 PM   #11
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Q: Does 9x18 have a future?

Yes

New pistols chambered in 9x18mm Makarov - probably not.

For me - Absolutely!

I am in my early 60's and I suspect that supplies of 9x18mm Makarov will outlast me. You can buy it today online for less than .30 per round delivered (I just checked on Gunbot). Eastern European countries will want to be exporting something for cash, and with the countless pistols chambered for that cartridge, it has been easier to find significant quantities of it than 9mm Luger (at least for me).

Perhaps I am just whistling in the dark, but my CZ82's, my Makarov, and my P64 sure hope it has a future.
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Old August 30, 2014, 06:40 PM   #12
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The ammo is getting pricey almost the price of .40 SW . But i love my Russian commercial makarov. It shoot s really tight groups . It s my EDC.
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Old August 30, 2014, 08:18 PM   #13
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The CZ82 is definitely the Cadillac of 9x18s. And the best ammo I've found is either Sellier & Bellot or Fiocchi. Prvi Partizan seems to be quite a bit dirtier. And I sure don't want any more of the Russkie stuff!
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Old August 30, 2014, 09:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by il.bill View Post
Yes

New pistols chambered in 9x18mm Makarov - probably not.

For me - Absolutely!

I am in my early 60's and I suspect that supplies of 9x18mm Makarov will outlast me. You can buy it today online for less than .30 per round delivered (I just checked on Gunbot). Eastern European countries will want to be exporting something for cash, and with the countless pistols chambered for that cartridge, it has been easier to find significant quantities of it than 9mm Luger (at least for me).

Perhaps I am just whistling in the dark, but my CZ82's, my Makarov, and my P64 sure hope it has a future.
I got my P-64 and CZ-82 on the last MilSurp / C&R wave (along with my Mosin-Nagant 91/30 & 1895 Nagants (2) ), before they became scarce and more expensive. I'm pleased with the two 9x18's I have.

The original Makarov was not as easily available by then, and haven't gotten one yet.

Last edited by Gun Master; August 30, 2014 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Details.
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Old August 30, 2014, 09:52 PM   #15
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It's a shame that the 9x18 is a dinosaur moving into extinction (meaning no new guns chambered for it).

Same with the 7.62x25.

Both are excellent and should have a future. But let's stay on track.

The 9x18 could easily replay the .380 as offering remarkably more power in a marginally larger package. But then again, the leap to 9x19 is minor but results in even greater performance.

If I were making guns, I'd chamber in 9x18 instead of .380. Revive that caliber.
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Old August 30, 2014, 10:16 PM   #16
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This reminds of that thread calling for a new 35 caliber round that is hotter than the 380 ACP:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...hlight=380+acp

I think the market is settling on 380 and 9mm.
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Old August 30, 2014, 11:10 PM   #17
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I wouldn't worry about it. I can still buy commercial 30-40 krag. How long has it been since that round was in service?
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Old August 30, 2014, 11:28 PM   #18
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I have a PA-63, and I offer this - that pistol seems to have a reputation for breaking the ejector, and they're very hard to find. Mine broke, and it took me months to find one. Just an FYI.
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Old August 31, 2014, 08:48 AM   #19
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Ongoing 9x18

Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
It's a shame that the 9x18 is a dinosaur moving into extinction (meaning no new guns chambered for it).

Same with the 7.62x25.

Both are excellent and should have a future. But let's stay on track.

The 9x18 could easily replay the .380 as offering remarkably more power in a marginally larger package. But then again, the leap to 9x19 is minor but results in even greater performance.

If I were making guns, I'd chamber in 9x18 instead of .380. Revive that caliber.
I'm with you all the way !

Let's keep 9x18 going. It just make sense to choose it over .380 (more powerful, etc.). Make new guns chambered in both.

Also, good engineers and machinist could figure out adapters so guns (new & old) could shoot both.
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Old August 31, 2014, 11:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Master View Post
...
The original Makarov was not as easily available by then, and haven't gotten one yet.
My recently purchased Makarov is a commercial Baikal IJ-70 with adjustable rear sight, not a mil-surp. It is nevertheless simple and rugged, and shoots nearly as well as my CZ82's. These pistols eat up all the cheap, imported steel cased rounds I can feed them. I now have the 9x18mm dies, so with some Makarov bullets and 9x19mm Luger brass trimmed to length, the future of the cartridge looks positive to me.
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Old August 31, 2014, 11:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Master View Post
... good engineers and machinist could figure out adapters so guns (new & old) could shoot both.
I wish - but would not the different diameter of the bullet make that difficult, if not impossible, with fixed barrels that cannot just be swapped out? Then again, maybe an easily swapped barrel for something like a Beretta 84 might be workable ...
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Old August 31, 2014, 12:01 PM   #22
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Come to think of it, I once successfully fired a .380 ACP cartridge in a 9x18mm CZ82. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?t...1018#msg421018
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Old August 31, 2014, 07:14 PM   #23
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9x17mm (.380 cal.) Ammo in 9x18 Mak mm Gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by il.bill View Post
I wish - but would not the different diameter of the bullet make that difficult, if not impossible, with fixed barrels that cannot just be swapped out? Then again, maybe an easily swapped barrel for something like a Beretta 84 might be workable ...
Bullet diameter is "essentially" the same (9mm). The .380 (9x17) is .355 inches, and 9x18mm Mak is .365 inches. It is the case length that is longer.

Shooting 9x17mm in a 9x18mm chamber is only one mm difference. I'm sure you'd be able to shoot .380 (9x17mm) ammo in a 9x18mm gun (i.e. CZ-82, etc.), but I don't know how long you could do so safely. Eventually the small gap would cause head space problems.

I was thinking about a permanent or removable (temporary) insert in the chamber at the rear of the barrel, to take up the one mm gap. This would rule out a "drop in barrel" in a "fixed" (permanently attached to receiver) barrel, such as the CZ-82.

Any and all opinions and/or experiences are appreciated.

Last edited by Gun Master; August 31, 2014 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Details.
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Old August 31, 2014, 07:19 PM   #24
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Wouldn't the .363 diameter of the 9x18 mm preclude a simple chamber insert? Fixed barrels CAN be swapped out- not casually, but there used to be a barrel- press tool made by Federal Arms that actually was doable...
I wonder if a true convertible ( not a fixed barrel) original design- maybe with a locked breech- could open up the possibilities?? Call it " Amerinkansy Stetchkinova".
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Old August 31, 2014, 07:22 PM   #25
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Different Ammo From Different Gun & Different Mag

Quote:
Originally Posted by il.bill View Post
Come to think of it, I once successfully fired a .380 ACP cartridge in a 9x18mm CZ82. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?t...1018#msg421018
I'm amazed, not that you were able to shoot .380ACP ammo in a CZ-82, but you did so with a .380 mag from a different gun (the Beretta 84)!
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