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Old August 31, 2014, 07:37 PM   #26
gripper
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I'm thinking .380 in a 9x18 barrel is POSSIBLE, just not " optimal"... An emergency expedient, MAYBE... Not accurate, reliable or as powerful... Probably have feeding & extraction issues.
The other way around?? Bad juju to jam a too long case with a slightly wider diameter bullet ...best to buy two guns, conversion kits& tools or to come up with a new design like I suggested... I could theoretically see a mid sized , locked breech multi caliber& barrel pistol as workable... Definitely. 380 & 9x18 would be doable. Maybe 9x19 and other calibers..depends on size, lockwork, complexity of design vs simplicity.
Maybe a slightly enlarged ( compared to a Makarov PM _ CZ82 with a locked breech, or even a Glock.
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Old August 31, 2014, 08:03 PM   #27
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I don't see the 9x18 disappearing anytime soon. I doubt we will ever see a new commercial pistol built for it in the US, but who knows. The .380 was all but dead 10 years ago too.
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Old August 31, 2014, 09:17 PM   #28
Jim K
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I don't think either 9x18 has a future. The Makarov is only made today because of the large number of ex-Eastbloc pistols dumped on the world market in the last few years. When those are absorbed into non-shooting collections or lost in one way or another, the ammo will gradually disappear. (For precedent, look at the .41 Swiss, which was made in large numbers here and elsewhere when the rifles were sold on the surplus market, then faded away.)

As to the 9x18 Ultra (9x18 Police), AFAIK, only Fiocchi makes it. RWS-GECO did, but it is not on their current list.

Jim
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Old August 31, 2014, 09:43 PM   #29
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9 x 18 ammo is only made today because the ex-Eastbloc countries dumped their huge pistol stocks for cash.

For people who are actually shooting the Makarov, their pistols will eventually break.

Anyone who is carrying them for SD will stop carrying them when it takes them months to repair a breakage.

The guns are not being made any longer so the existing stock will eventually disappear.

When people stop shooting the guns, the ammo manufacturers stop making the ammo.

The answer is so simple, this is almost a rhetorical question.

I don't see where the debate is, wishful thinking aside, the 9 x 18 has no future.
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Old August 31, 2014, 10:04 PM   #30
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Yes, It Does Have a Future

It's future could be anywhere between Neo-Soviet Bloc Revival, to antiquical obscurity, and all points in between. It "does" have a future, positive or negative.
Does anybody know the future ? If so, I need some advise on .22LR ammo and other investments.
Nobody "knows" the future. One can only speculate.

I, for one, "hope" it is a positive future, that will last many years.

The 9x18 round is a powerful choice between .380ACP and 9mm Luger, IMHO.

Last edited by Gun Master; August 31, 2014 at 10:09 PM. Reason: "Get 'em while they're hot ! Red Hot !"
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Old September 1, 2014, 03:37 AM   #31
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Way things are going in the Ukraine these days, it's future may be as the round of choice for scavengers in the nuclear wasteland between the Urals and Polish border . . .
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Old September 1, 2014, 08:22 AM   #32
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We do not know the future but one comment above made me respond to this thread. Several handguns that fire the 9x18 round are rather difficult to find spare parts for. The original PM or Soviet Makarov has ALL parts, except the frame and slide, available right now in large numbers at reasonable prices. To my limited knowledge there is no other small handgun from any country with all of its parts so available. Also these parts will work in the Makarovs produced in East Germany, China, and Bulgaria. I'll admit I'm partial to the 9x18 round but the availability of spare parts did factor in to my reasoning. I have even assembled a Makarov with parts from all four countries and it shoots great.

I do doubt that we will ever see new handguns designed for this round.

Last edited by lincen; September 1, 2014 at 07:11 PM.
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Old September 1, 2014, 03:57 PM   #33
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9x18mm Future

I currently have one each P-64 and CZ-82, chambered in 9x18mm.
This is sufficient to my needs, in that mm, at present. Noting two ends of the spectrum regarding size.
Should the 9x18 ammo become unavailable, I likely would gravitate toward the small to medium 9mm Luger chambered pistols.
I don't know the future of 9x18mm, but I do know my ultimate future. Do you? ><>
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Old September 1, 2014, 09:57 PM   #34
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What gun master said. Does it matter if new guns are being made in the caliber when so many are out there, parts are in abundance and manufacturers produce ammo? IMO, it's future will be longer than most of ours.

Were I wanting a PM, I'd get one without reservation or regret.
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Old September 2, 2014, 06:43 PM   #35
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Possible 9x18 Future

This is pure conjecture and speculation mind you.

I believe the most likely analogy in recent history, in potential "destiny" of 9x18mm ammo, could simulate that of the 9x23mm Largo (Bergman-Bayard). It started almost at the at the beginning of the 20th Century, with "a big bang". The 9mm Largo had some similarities to the .38ACP Super, which I do not plan to discuss at this time.
The Largo was first chambered for the Bergman Mars Pistol, and later for several pistols and even submachine guns. Luger 9mm Parabellum proved to be a more popular and efficient round.

Although several companies produced 9mm Largo pistols, the two main manufacturers, Star and Astra, are now defunct. No modern pistols are currently made in this chambering. Collectors and shooters are dependent on old surplus ammo, most being corrosive.

I own an Astra Model 400 (1921), and I scrounge a few rounds every now and then.
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Old September 2, 2014, 09:40 PM   #36
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Allow me to be the voice of dissent and go against the grain here.
Let me start by saying that I like the 9x18. I love my P64 and Cz82 and have put many rounds through both. I have enjoyed my experiences with the 9x18.

Unfortunately, I do not believe the 9x18 has a future as far as modern designs.
Why? Let's be real here, what does it offer? Typically 94 grains at 1000 FPS. 50 years ago, that was considered the most you could squeeze from a simple blowback without adding noticeable mass to the slide. That was quite a while ago.

Nations who have switched from the 9x18 to 9x19 aren't switching back. Likewise, there is little to no drive for a new commercial pistol in 9x18 and for good reason. Being a pragmatist, I don't see any reason for anything new in 9x18 as the .380acp (9x17) will do anything the 9x18 will, especially given the offerings from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Doubletap, et al.

In addition, we are seeing many micro 9mm (9x19) pistols today that are smaller and far more powerful than similar sized pistols in 9x18 all while being more comfortable to shoot. With the exception of price, I don't see any advantage of a small blowback over a locking breech chambered for the same round. Is a fixed barrel blowback inherently more accurate or reliable over a locked breech design of equal size? Perhaps. Enough to market as a real advantage over locked breech designs? I sincerely doubt it.

Again, I like the 9x18 just as I like the 7.62x25. However, just as the 7.62x25, I don't see it being incorporated into any future designs. This is not to say there will exist any supply crisis in the near future or ammunition manufactures ignoring the 9x18 market.
If you fancy a pistol in 9x18 such as the excellent Cz82 or P64, by all means buy it! If you hope to see a future P238 or Colt Mustang in chambered 9x18, don't hold your breath.
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Last edited by Snowdog; September 2, 2014 at 10:22 PM.
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Old September 2, 2014, 10:18 PM   #37
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Their is always a market for "something different". 9mm mak is that something to a lot of people. True great calibers come and go each year with little or no fanfare but this one has too strong of a footprint to vanish into antiquity soon. Are it's days numbered? Absolutely so, but all things have an eventual expiration date. The mak will be around for decades to come. It may get more expensive and be cost prohibitive to shoot but those years are far away. Many other rounds will die first.
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Old September 2, 2014, 10:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog View Post
Allow me to be the voice of dissent and go against the grain here.
Let me start by saying that I like the 9x18. I love my P64 and Cz82 and have put many rounds through both. I have enjoyed my experiences with the 9x18.

Unfortunately, I do not believe the 9x18 has a future as far as modern designs.
Why? Let's be real here, what does it offer? Typically 94 grains at 1000 FPS. 50 years ago, that was considered the most you could squeeze from a simple blowback without adding noticeable mass to the slide. That was quite a while ago.

Nations who have switched from the 9x18 to 9x19 aren't switching back. Likewise, there is little to no drive for a new commercial pistol in 9x18 and for good reason. Being a pragmatist, I don't see any reason for anything new in 9x18 as the .380acp (9x17) will do anything the 9x18 will, especially given the offerings from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Doubletap, et al.

In addition, we are seeing many micro 9mm (9x19) pistols today that are smaller and far more powerful than similar sized pistols in 9x18 all while being more comfortable to shoot. With the exception of price, I don't see any advantage of a small blowback over a locking breech chambered for the same round. Is a fixed barrel blowback inherently more accurate or reliable over a locked breech design of equal size? Perhaps. Enough to market as a real advantage over locked breech designs? I sincerely doubt it.

Again, I like the 9x18 just as I like the 7.62x25. However, just as the 7.62x25, I don't see it being incorporated into any future designs. This is not to say there will exist any supply crisis in the near future or ammunition manufactures ignoring the 9x18 market.
If you fancy a pistol in 9x18 such as the excellent Cz82 or P64, by all means buy it! If you hope to see a future P238 or Colt Mustang in chambered 9x18, don't hold your breath.
Agreed.
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Old September 2, 2014, 10:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestKentucky View Post
Their is always a market for "something different". 9mm mak is that something to a lot of people. True great calibers come and go each year with little or no fanfare but this one has too strong of a footprint to vanish into antiquity soon. Are it's days numbered? Absolutely so, but all things have an eventual expiration date. The mak will be around for decades to come. It may get more expensive and be cost prohibitive to shoot but those years are far away. Many other rounds will die first.
Agreed.
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Old September 3, 2014, 07:42 AM   #40
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I also agree with the above three or so posts. All I would add is that those who like to shoot the 9x18 round would be wise to buy ammo in bulk quantities. Not talking about 10,000 rounds but the best prices are for 500-1,000 round bulk orders. I have over a dozen 9x18 handguns and still manage to find good prices for the steel cased ammo. Fioochi, Privi, and S&B brass cased ammo can be found at good prices too.

As been stated above, none of us know the future but ammo imports from Russia and even Ukraine could be stopped at any time. I sold my Tokarev when I saw the ammo start to dry up and increase in price. I have enough 9x18 ammo for a good many years of range fun.
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Old September 3, 2014, 10:53 AM   #41
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If you have bullets, everything else is easy to get.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i15...___1000ct.aspx

Figure out how much you will shoot your 9mm Mak and buy a lifetime supply. Much better to decide your own future than to let others do it for you.
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Old September 3, 2014, 11:34 AM   #42
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New manufacture? Doubtful unless the Hungarians decide to make more.

I have 7 different pistols that fire the 9x18 with the Hungarians being the low end of the spectrum and the Russian being the nicest. I shoot 3 of them regularly and really enjoy the "feel" of the guns. I have bullets and over 5k rounds of Fiocchi ammo plus I COULD cut down 9mm brass so I should be set until my kids inherit everything.
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Old September 3, 2014, 11:42 AM   #43
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It's more of a collectors, and enthusiasts gun, it has no future as far as going mainstream.
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Old September 3, 2014, 12:12 PM   #44
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In 1984 I shot some 9x17/.380 in a 9x18 Mak belonging to the AMTU at Fort Bragg. It went bang but it did not reliably cycle.

The 9x18 has a future only in the minds of people who like it. Why would anyone design another small .355 semi-auto pistol when pistols as small as the Kel-Tec PF-9 can fire 9mmP?
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Old September 3, 2014, 03:35 PM   #45
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Does 9x18 have a future?

Will their be new guns in 9X18? Few if any.

Will ammo be available for a long time? Absolutely. There are millions of guns chambered in it and therein lies a huge market.
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Old September 3, 2014, 04:53 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armarsh View Post
If you have bullets, everything else is easy to get.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i15...___1000ct.aspx

Figure out how much you will shoot your 9mm Mak and buy a lifetime supply. Much better to decide your own future than to let others do it for you.
Seeing Berry's making 9x18 bullets again is a good sign - was disappointed when they disappeared!
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Old September 4, 2014, 12:44 AM   #47
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I bought 3k rounds (for $10/box) plus a CZ-82 and an extra p-64 2 years ago in the bad old days, when I couldn't find 9mm. While I don't think I'll be buying that much ever again, I still like a P-64 in a pocket.
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Old September 5, 2014, 11:49 PM   #48
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The 9x18 Mak in a PM has more potential than a .380acp for the handloader.
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Old September 5, 2014, 11:58 PM   #49
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As has been pointed out. There are millions of surplus guns in this caliber out there. They and the 918mm will be around for a good while yet. JMO.
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Old September 6, 2014, 03:37 PM   #50
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I have a P-64, a PA63, and a CZ 82, and fortunately, I have a very good supply of ammo for them. The 9X18 has a future with me.
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