25 Internet Yards

A true 25 yards is the norm for pistol accuracy comparisons.

Lafitte

I can't say for others but I shot PPC and regularly practiced at 7, 25 and 50 yards, from standing, kneeling, sitting and prone. Once I got my sights regulated to a load, I never used a bench again. Can I shoot 2" groups at all of those ranges, no, but I can and do keep them in the 9 ring.

Kevin

I used to shoot with a friend who was on the local police force. At the Police Range we shot 7, 25 and 50 yards. With revolvers it was double action at 7 and 25 and single action at 50. You also had to shoot week hand. I have seen him shoot 292 out of a possible 300. We are talking about a 6-7" group at 25 and 50 yards, but then I have seen him hit a pop can at a 100 meters with a 357 Model 66 Smith.

The precision matches with 22 rimfire were offhand and shot at 25 yards. I have seen many 2" groups in this match. A few of them were mine.

When my eyeballs were relatively young (mid-30s) I discovered the joy of shooting old golfballs with my new 3" 629-1 and watching them disappear ... and have some drop from the sky a short while later.

O'course, I was shooting them at about 25 feet, not 25 yards.

While I accept that some folks can actually, consistently shoot as well as you have mentioned, I have always figured that most claims of this type need to be taken with a (sometimes BIG) grain of salt, same as fishing stories.

Practicing self and home defense I go 7 big paces turn and fire. I am not taking my time and am happy to be in a 6" circle.

The farther I go from there the longer it is between my shots. I expect and get more accuracy with measured fire but at 50 yards these eyes need optics or the pattern gets chest size.

guyfromohio said:

Allow me to preface with the fact that I know that some people actually shoot at 25 yards and do quite well.

However, I see in thread after thread where the guy with the new handgun shoots a 2" inch group at 25 yards. I don't know about the majority here, but at 25 yards, my front post is about the same size as the entire silhouette target. In fact, my (I'm a member there) state-of-the-art range goes to 45' in the pistol bay and 75' in the rifle. So 25 yards? Really? Or does one really mean 25 FEET?

Personally, unless I'm playing some sort of game with myself, I'm shooting at 21'.

Again, talking about unscoped handguns. And I acknowledge that a percentage of great shooters can group offhand at 25 yards. What say you THR? Do we call shenanigans?

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I would not use the term shenanigans.

My normal range for pistol shooting is between 7 to 15 yards, depending on what I'm using and how sharp my vision is that day.

jlr1962 said:

I would not use the term shenanigans.

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Yes, but if he used the most accurate terminology (a compound word), he would get his virtual hand slapped by a Mod.

NRA Conventional Pistol competition has a standard set of targets for use at the various yardages, and those might be useful in figuring out who and what to believe.

25 Yard slow-fire targets have scoring rings as follows:
X ring ......................0.67 in
10 ring .....................1.51 in
9 ring .......................2.60 in
8 ring .......................3.82 in
7 ring .......................5.32 in
6 ring .......................7.22 in
5 ring .......................9.66 in


50 yard slow fire targets measure as such:
X ring ......................1.695 in
10 ring .....................3.36 in
9 ring .......................5.54 in
8 ring .......................8.00 in
7 ring .....................11.00 in
6 ring .....................14.80 in
5 ring .....................19.68 in

These are used in competition up to the level of the National Matches and are what the very best "bullseye" handgun marksmen in the world will be attempting to shoot.

The 2700 aggregate match involves three handguns and firing the 90 round course of fire once with each. 270 shots, for a possible 2700 points.

This year's national champion fired for 2,655 points with 122 "X" hits. Meaning only 45 of his hits strayed into the "9" ring, and 122 of his shots landed in the tiny "X" circle.



And that's arguably the very best handgun shooter (of this discipline) in the country. You probably haven't ever met more than one or two pistoleros who could have shot 75% of that score on their best day.

One of the local public ranges has a fixed firing line and 6 steel plate racks with 6 each 8" plates at 25 yards.

I would tend to agree with the OP, in that the vast majority of what I classify as "non-serious" shooters tend to try the plates out once or twice then give up when they can't hit them, even with no time limit. That would seem to tell me that they can't shoot an 8" group at 25 yards given no time limits.

They then set up their B-27 targets (2 feet wide by 4 feet tall) at about 5 to 7 yards (21 feet) and seem perfectly happy when all their shots are on the paper.

We run NRA Falling Plate matches about every other month. The "serious" shooters have little difficulty in cleaning (6 plates in 6 shots in 9 seconds) the 25 yard strings. My experience has been that anyone capable of doing that is pretty easily capable of shooting 2" to 3" groups at 25 yards given no time limits.

7.9 Olin “Oli” C. Barjenbruch Falling Plate Event-Competitors
must fire the 10-yard line segment in the standing position. Competitors
may fire the 15, 20 and 25-yard line segments in the prone
position at their option. This event will be divided into four stages;
each stage will have two strings, 6 shot per string. 48 shots; targets will
be 8” round metal plates:
(a) 10 yards - 6 shots in 6 seconds, 2 strings.
(b) 15 yards - 6 shots in 7 seconds, 2 strings.
(c) 20 yards - 6 shots in 8 seconds, 2 strings.
(d) 25 yards - 6 shots in 9 seconds, 2 strings.

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At 25 yards you are allowed 6 shots and 9 seconds. If you can't regularly take down all six plates on the 25 yard strings you aren't competitive for the top spots.

guyfrom ohio said:

In fact, my (I'm a member there) state-of-the-art range goes to 45' in the pistol bay and 75' in the rifle.

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25 yards seems long to you because that's the max distance you shoot at. You need to quit shooting at your "state of the art" 25 yard range and get outdoors where you can stretch it out a little bit if possible. After you shoot 6" steel plates or bowling pins at 50 and 100 yards for a while you'll find those 2" 25 yard groups to be child's play.

Before my .41 mag taurus raging bull gave up the ghost I could make one ragged holds at 25 yds. Too bad it wore out in 3 years. VERY DISSAPOINTED not with accuracy but longevity.

When I purchase a new to me firearm (hand gun) and I want to test it, I shoot it at 25 yards to see where it is shooting and how tight of a group it is capable of.
I do this off of a sandbag and use a six o'clock hold on the 3" black bullseye, that is, I balance the black bullseye on top of the front sight and focus on the front sight, the bullseye will be blurred. This way, I can get consistent results to see how the firearm performs.
An easier way is to use a good red dot sight and focus on the target.

a true 25 yards is the norm for pistol accuracy comparisons.

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. . . from a ransom rest . . . This is what many people don't remember.

Simple, divide by 10 to get actual measurements.

I've found that anyone that is good at what they do will often make it look easy while others struggle. I have no doubts that there are a lot of folks who can. I can't shoot 2" at 25 yards, I'm good for about 4" at that range. I rarely shoot at that distance but I do shoot at 50' (about 17 yards) quite often and 2" is normal at that range. Occasionally much less.

If you usually shoot at 21' you really need to start stretching things out. The only time I get that close is when shooting tiny guns such as my Kel-Tec 380. With normal size guns 50' is where I start. If I can shoot well at that range 21' is nothing.

guyfromohio said:

I can fill a 9" paper plate at 25 yards all day long

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How long does it take you to shoot that 9" group at 25 yards?

If you're doing it free standing in less than 10 seconds, you're doing pretty good. Should be easy to get you down to 2" groups. If you're taking your time and/or shooting from a rest, you'd probably benefit immensely from some good instruction and training. That usually means paying for some professional training with a recognized instructor, not your usual clueless range nimrods.

Best thing I ever did to improve my shooting was to take the pistol classes at Gunsite many years ago. I thought I was stupid for spending that money, but some friends put together a package so I signed up. Best thing I ever did. And that was AFTER 4 years military, 8 years LEO, and several years of competitive shooting.

USAF M9 qualifications requires 25 yards off hand. I don't remember the size target or percentage of rounds on target, but I managed to qualify. I generally practice 7 yards, 10 yards, and bad breath distance (3 feet).

I know I'm not grouping 2" at 25 yards.

Practice yardage should be what ever yardage you can continuously get your best results at. Makes no sense to say shoot at a yardage you can`t master. None.

25 yards is no big deal with a full size, quality, handgun.

with regard to the sight picture being filled by your target zone...that doesn't matter, look around your sights and line them up the same way with the target's peripheral region every time. choose a peripheral standard and only fire when you are as close as possible to the standard you've set.

I would agree with you. Even in person I hear friends talk about groupings at 25yds with their handguns and I think, I've been to the range with you and you have a 4" grouping at 10 yards, but I don't put em down. Like you said plenty of people can do it, but I would tend to think several statements of doing this are a bit exaggerated.

Maybe it's because people put targets up at the 25 yard line and shoot at it (half way between the bench and the target) and think 'I'm pretty good at 25 yards'. Who knows.

I'm usually pretty honest about my [lack of] abilities. I always say, I'm a collector first and a shooter second lol. Even so I always try to improve a little bit at a time and that's just what's fun for me. I'll buy Mosins all day long because I know they hold their value, but every time you pull that trigger that's money you're not getting back (reloaders will chime in here ).

I'm happy when I can hit paper at 25 yds with a handgun. I do wonder if everyone is accurate as they claim but then again this is a forum devoted entirely to guns, so most posters are more than just casual shooters so I expect most people here are better shots than me.