25 Internet Yards

guyfromohio said:

Allow me to preface with the fact that I know that some people actually shoot at 25 yards and do quite well.

However, I see in thread after thread where the guy with the new handgun shoots a 2" inch group at 25 yards. I don't know about the majority here, but at 25 yards, my front post is about the same size as the entire silhouette target. In fact, my (I'm a member there) state-of-the-art range goes to 45' in the pistol bay and 75' in the rifle. So 25 yards? Really? Or does one really mean 25 FEET?

Personally, unless I'm playing some sort of game with myself, I'm shooting at 21'.

Again, talking about unscoped handguns. And I acknowledge that a percentage of great shooters can group offhand at 25 yards. What say you THR? Do we call shenanigans?

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There are a lot of shooters, like me, who don't pay a lot of attention to that too. I know I am in the minority here but I don't have a competitive bone in my body and never have.

I have seen many shooters who can easily shoot less than 2" groups at 25 yards... I have seen 100 times that number of shooters who can't even hit the paper at that range though.

In my own little world, if I need something shot at 25+ yards I'm going to be reaching for my carbine and if it is over 100 yards, it will be my rifle.

I love to shoot tight groups like everyone else but a competitor I will never be. I am ok with that too. It isn't always about being the best or the fastest. If it was, I would have given up on a lot of things in life. For me, it is about being outside, enjoying the hobby and the fun of casting and reloading. It doesn't always have to be about being the best.

It is amazing sometimes what can be done. I'm 72 and shot this 100 yard pistol match at the Nationals in June. The 10 ring is 3 inches dia. I shot this using one hand un- supported open sights black powder muzzleloading 32 cal. Pistol. Barrel is about 6.5 inches .

I do all my shooting outside in the backyard, distance isn't a focus of my attention unless I'm practicing with my hunting gun(.45Blackhawk) and then it's more for range estimation.

I've measured out 50 and 15 yards with a wheel, the 50 is max yards with the Blackhawk and 15 is distance from my bedroom door down the hall to the living room, SD(including pocket) guns are usually 20 yards max.

I certainly concur that many, many, many shooters confuse the 25 FOOT marks at their range with the 25 yard marks.

The theoretical accuracy of my Gold Cup is 2" at 50 yards. The practical accuracy for me is much, much less. I have been working on trying to develop a load that will overcome my lack of skill, but so far I have been unsuccessful.

Part of the problem is that my eyes are slowly failing (I'm in my mid sixties) and the sights are getting harder and harder to see. The other part of my problem is that I haven't practiced enough, although I am trying to go to the range two or three times a week. I find that I like shooting reactive targets much more than I like punching paper, so I really don't try for groups as much as I snould.

If I get to the point where I can shoot two inch groups at 25 yards I will be doing a happy dance right there and then.

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I'm also in my mid 60's. Eyes are starting to fade a bit. I think shooters notice it more than most people. The good news is my right eye is mush stronger than my left, I shoot right handed and I'm RED. I started shooting a pistol too late in the game to be a 4 MOA shooter but some guns are capable of that, even guaranteed to do it. I don't shoot anything but 25 yards. That's how I know how bad I really am. Every now and then I start feeling a bit challenged so I take my 6" model 19 to the range and it's a wonderful day all of a sudden.

fishermen claimthey coughtthe biggest fish.. gun shooter claim mor eyardage than they shoot=bravado

some are able to see well and shoot as well out to 25,50,100 yards. NOT me

I am older now. I am lucky that I do not have cataracts yet. I can see well to 50 feet. My wife and I shoot 21-40 feet as that is the most likely distance we would be engaging a thug in our home. Personally if someone is more than 30 feet away on the street , I think it would be a stretch to say that they represented a threat to me--unless a gun was brandished by them...JMHO

The DNR range that I go to has 10, 25, and 50 yard lanes.

I use 25 yards when 10 yards is full. I am happy when most of my shots hit somewhere inside a target. Forget about group size.

When I started shooting a handgun I was lucky to get all six shots on the paper at 25 yards. I shot lots and lots, (back when you could just go out and buy a bulk pack of Federal .22) started at 21 feet and worked back to 25 yards. After much practive, typically I was under 3" at 25 yards, a bad day had me at 4+" A good day was under 2". Six shots, two hands unsupported with a New Model Ruger Single Six. Quit shooting as frequently (3-5 times a week), and can't do it now. But when somebody claims 2" at 25 yards I assume they are shooting a lot. If they're infrequent shooters and can do it, they're better shots than I.

I once challenged a mans statement like that,,,

He said he could regularly hit a coke can at 100 yards with his 4" Ruger Security Six,,,
When I went "pshaw" (or some other disbelieving remark),,,
He said: "You calling me a liar?"

I replied: "No, I don't think you're lying. I just don't think you know what 100yards looks like."

Aarond

.

Wow, some interesting (and silly) information. Has everyone forgotten that standard NRA handgun courses are fired at 25 and 50 yards? And not from a rest, not two handed, not with rifles!

Timed and rapid fire are shot at 25 yards, slow fire at 50 yards. And those are measured yards, not guesses or sort of or cousin Joe said distances. And they were and are still fired, and any handgun that won't keep its shots at least in the black at those distances will get tossed in the trash can pretty quickly.

The guys who show up at a range and blaze away at 6 feet from a rest and two hand hold and then brag about their expertise with a handgun should try some real shooting, off hand, at decent distances.

Jim

We knock over 4x4x12" chunks of wood all the time at 25-30 yards. Not a big deal. It's a bit of trigger control. (1911's rule for this) but at least it's a little bit of a challenge.

The 7 yard guys are just afraid of challenging themselves. Thier ego's can't handle a miss.

I believe Ross Seyfried said that a decent handgun shot could group 1 inch for every 10 yards of distance.

Just his opinion, but he has had some experience.

I'd guess exaggeration is common on the net, but if you think 2" at 25 yards, or 8" at 100 yards is next to impossible, you haven't been watching the right shooters.

IMHO, two handed shooting is easier than one handed, so bullseye groups are done using a difficult style.

Inches to yards put in any distance you want.

Lately I have been practicing drawing and shooting two shots a piece of 8.5x11" paper using a shot clock

The goal for me is to get better at my double action first shot and transition to SA on the Sig for the IDPA qualifier.

So far, shots on paper. the times aren't too bad, but I could be faster.

There are those who can, and those who can not. There are those who will, and those who will not. There are those who will try, and those who will not. There are those with limits. and those who have none. These differences will not go away, but the shooting sports are all about having fun and shooting the way you like it.l

Heck I cant do that!

I shoot mostly offhand at 21 yards and 25 yards and the best I can do is about a 6 to seven inch group. Occasionally i will move in to 15 yards and do a lot better. Sure at seven yards I can print small groups but I like to use the 21 and 25 yard position to really test me!!
2 inch groups at 25 yards is probably from a rest and there is no comparison to offhand!

As to wheter one knows he actual distance or not, be aware that the Handgun Silhouette Course has targets set at 50 meters, 100 meters, 150 meters, and 200 meters. 200 meters figures out to about 218 yards.

Bob Wright

When I first came into the USCG Auxiliary, my mentor was an old dude...he was aboard USCGC Eastwind for Operation Deep Freeze I in 1958. Anyhow, Jan shot on the CG pistol team back in the day. Using Navy-built match .45s, the instructor made them shoot prone and standing at 300 yards and prone at 500.

Some years later, Jan was a deputy sheriff, and was issued a 6" .38 K-frame S&W. They shot them at 200 yards.

I knew Jan on and off for 9 years; knew darn well I'd end up going to his funeral and that's exactly what happened when he passed away from kidney cancer last year.

He passed something on to me that has stuck with me. The gist of his statement was "You better know how to use that pistol, 'cause when crap goes down and you need a gun, the shotgun in your patrol car is no good to you. The pistol on your belt is ALL YOU GOT."

i have put 6,000 practice rounds thru my 22/45.
i can get 2'' groups with 2 hands at 25 yards n 3'' groups one hand. from a rest i get 1'' groups.
this is with any SV ammo.
if you can't do this you haven't practiced enow.
i'm just average in talent n athletic ability.

Meaning only 45 of his hits strayed into the "9" ring, and 122 of his shots landed in the tiny "X" circle.

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Not to take anything away from the amazing shooting of a 2700 match winner, but aren't you basically "spotted" the diameter of the bullet as breaking the line gets the 10 or the X, the entire hole doesn't need to be inside the lines.

In any case, shooting a 3 or 5 shot 2" group off sandbags at 25 yards (about 8moa) is a world different from shooting 270 rounds at ~3moa 10-ring targets with no support!

wally said:

Not to take anything away from the amazing shooting of a 2700 match winner, but aren't you basically "spotted" the diameter of the bullet as breaking the line gets the 10 or the X, the entire hole doesn't need to be inside the lines.



In any case, shooting a 3 or 5 shot 2" group off sandbags at 25 yards (about 8moa) is a world different from shooting 270 rounds at ~3moa 10-ring targets with no support!

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Any shot that touches a scoring ring is awarded the higher of the two values.

I shoot Bullseye and when I'm at the club and guys pull in and see me shooting at 50 yards they usually stop and look at my targets. This usually starts a conversation. Most people don't believe that you can shoot a DA revolver(shooting DA) at 50 yards and be accurate. It's not that hard, though I do shoot many more rounds than the average bear.

What say you THR? Do we call shenanigans?

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Since I have shot a few 2" groups at 25 YARDS I woulda be quick to call shenanigans, although I know plenty that have no idea what 25 yards looks like.

I learned along time ago that when it comes to Ohio deer hunters telling about their shots that I have about a 6' stride when I walk based on their distance estimations, and some of them are internet shooters as well as deer hunters.

Three pages and still going.

Anybody claiming ?" @ 25 yards in the DFW metro area, (7million people) want to do this in person? I actually have a drivers license, and would love to see it done, off hand of course.

Anybody claiming ?" @ 25 yards in the DFW metro area, (7million people) want to do this in person? I actually have a drivers license, and would love to see it done, off hand of course.

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I read the OP. While he might be thinking posters who claim such all shoot offhand, I never mentioned anything about off hand when I have posted a gun's accuracy at 25 yards on a thread. As I've stated many, many, many times before and in this thread, I shoot off sandbags at 25 to quantify accuracy of a gun and the gun with a specific load. If none of you actually test your ammo before carrying, how do you know where it hits or how can you quantify the gun/load's accuracy? In order to quantify a gun's accuracy, you have to take user error out of the equation, otherwise, you're not quantifying the gun and you don't learn dooddly about it or the load you're shooting.

There's plenty of time for off hand practice after I work up a load the gun likes. I don't practice off the bench, but I do test off the bench. With all the pics on this board of shot up chronographs, too, I'm thinkin' some of you don't even shoot off sand bags over a chronograph. Serious shooters like to test their equipment before actual use and the 25 yard accuracy thing is the standard in all the Zines, so it's what I use.

After the testing is done, the load is quantified and accepted, then I put it to use, practice or carry. THEN I do my off hand practice. About the best I can shoot off hand at 25 yards is 4", but I've shot some decent bullseye 25 yard groups that were better. On a 25 yard slow fire target, I kept one target that scored 99 4x and all shots were under 2" except the last one in the 9 ring that screwed up a 100 score. 97 scores were easy when I was shooting that style. This was done with a not so great Ramline Exactor when it was new. It later started screwing up. I never owned a target gun, but I doubt I could do much better with one. I used to practice bullseye (one handed) because our club would put on a local shoot once in a while. I'd really rather shoot momentum games, speed stuff. Most fun were the pepper popper shoots.