Reloading handbooks when bullet is not listed

AV8TOR · Nov 4, 2015

So long time reloader here with some 50K loads behind me getting back into it after some 15 years off. I am new to plated bullets and I just went through my first 1k of Xtreme 9 mm 124 RN. I am currently using Silhouette powder and for powder factory supplied loading data they do a great job including both Berry and Rainier bullets. My question is that I would like to order 124 FP's. I cannot seem to find load data using this style bullet. What adjustments do you make when switching from a RN to a FP of the same weight? Can you just use HP listed bullets loads. There is a 0.2gr difference in 124 Berry 124 RN to a Rainier 124 HP with the HP being the lesser of the 2. I have no problem starting low and working up I am just curious what approach you use when your bullets are not listed. Thanks in advance.

rcmodel · Nov 4, 2015

You can use lead bullet data, or mid- level jacketed bullet data with plated bullets.

Your seating length will be shorter with the FP then with the RN.

rc

PJSprog · Nov 4, 2015

rcmodel said:
You can use lead bullet data,...

I made this same recommendation to someone recently, and was admonished for it under the notion that "no plated bullet manufacturers recommend this" or some such thing. Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this used to be perfectly acceptable.

Rule3 · Nov 4, 2015

As rc covered load data

Hornady has a FN 124 gr 9mm bullet and their COL is 1.050 which will give you a ball park.

It is not the same exact bullet so you will need to do a plunk test for your barrel. But it should be close give or take.

Rule3 · Nov 4, 2015

PJSprog said:
I made this same recommendation to someone recently, and was admonished for it under the notion that "no plated bullet manufacturers recommend this" or some such thing. Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this used to be perfectly acceptable.

How can that be when every plated bullet maker states it on their web site??

Lead data or mid, FMJ

Guess they can't read

PJSprog · Nov 4, 2015

Well, it was a prominent member here, so I'm not going to call them out on it. I was a bit taken aback as well, but just let it go. It's someone whose opinion and experience I normally respect quite a bit. That thread, though, was in reference to a more powerful round, and the velocity limitations of plated bullets may have been a factor in their response.

Rule3 · Nov 4, 2015

OK, no problem. Most handgun bullets are not going to exceed the plated bullet max with exception of some Mag loads. But then plated bullets are not the best choice for full house mag loads. I no longer use plated bullets but still have some 30 carbine Berrys left, and they can go a little faster,

For 9mm and 45 ACP I pretty much loaded them like FMJ but I do not use max loads anyway,

Walkalong · Nov 4, 2015

Plated Bullets

They are not lead, so don't use lead data. They are not jacketed, so don't use jacketed data.

They are somewhere in between. There is some good plated bullet data out there.

The velocity limits of 1200 FPS is a very good guideline. They can sometimes take a bit more, and sometimes a bit less.

I run some Ranier and Berrys bullets with full jacketed data. That can not be done for all bullets and calibers though. Starting loads for lead data can be too weak, and max jacketed data can get you in trouble if you are not careful. The links to Accurates, Midways, and Vihtavuori's old data will be a great place to start. More and more plated data is available online in places like Hodgdon, Accurate, Vihtavuori, etc.

I have only been able to tumble plated bullets at high velocities in revolvers. I have run certain ones at over 1300 FPS in autos without issues and good accuracy.

Berrys has two things on the website about plated bullets.

From the FAQ list.

"How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets"

We do not research or publish the load data, but you can use any published load data for a jacketed or lead bullet as long as it is the same weight bullet. Any of the load data books or the powder manufacturers’ website should have that information for you, as long as you keep them under 1250 fps for our standard bullet or 1500fps for the bullets designated as TP (thick plate).

"Load Data for Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets"

Currently published load data is limited to some calibers by Accurate, Western Powders and Hodgdon. We are working with these companies to get data published for all of our bullets.

We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.

Ranier used to publish data (Well over lead data) on the website, then changed to say lead data, and now seem to have gone back to pretty much what they used to say. So, they have changed their advise, but not the bullets as far as I know.

Old Ranier data from Accurate

Old Ranier data from Vihtavuori

Old Midway USA plated bullet data

Websites to check for plated data.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/handgun-reloading-data.html

Jlr2267 · Nov 4, 2015

lead or mid jacketed per manufacturer's recommendation

Kaldor · Nov 5, 2015

Take an average of the lead and jacketed load data with the same bullet weight.

If the lead data runs from 3-4gr and the jacketed data runs from 4-5gr, I would consider the load range to be in the 3.5-4.5gr range. I never start at the very bottom on any of my loads. So if my calclated load range was 3.5-4.5, I would start at 3.8gr. Run test loads at 3.8, 3.9, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, which is still well below jacketed max, and just a hair over lead max. Chances are you will find an accurate load in that set of test loads. If the bullets seem to be holding up, you can try pushing them a little harder if you want.

I use this very same method with HiTek coated, but Ive found with the Acme Bullets Im using I can damn near push them as hard as a jacketed bullet, so instead of averaging, I just drop a few 10ths off the min/max for a similar jacketed bullet.

Dudedog · Nov 6, 2015

I usually seem to end up liking mid-upper lead data or lower-mid jacketed data.

For example with RMR 124 FNs I liked 4.4 of HP38. (4gr also shot well and was soft)
Hodgdon HP38 data lead 125 3.9 to 4.4 FMJ data 4.4 - 4.8
Hodgdon WSFdata lead 124 4 to 4.7 FMJ 4.7 to 5.3
I like 4.4 of WSF which shoots well and is lower- midrange

mdi · Nov 6, 2015

PJSprog said:
I made this same recommendation to someone recently, and was admonished for it under the notion that "no plated bullet manufacturers recommend this" or some such thing. Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this used to be perfectly acceptable.

I too have used lead bullet data for all the plated bullets I've reloaded. Just about 1,200 in my semi-autos. I tried the "formula" of mid-level jacketed bullet data, but found it was just a "crossover" to some lead data I've used, so I just used lead data and it works great (why try and push a velocity limited bullet to the edge of destruction?). I also remember one of the manufacturers that stated,way back when they started getting popular, to use lead bullet data, but that was too simple for some folks. But once I shot them all up, I haven't found a need to purchase any more; my lead bullets don't lead the barrel, I'm used to handling lubed lead bullets, and I'm PCing a lot of my own cast bullets now...

Reloading handbooks when bullet is not listed

AV8TOR

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rcmodel

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PJSprog

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Rule3

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Rule3

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PJSprog

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Rule3

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Walkalong

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Jlr2267

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Kaldor

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Dudedog

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mdi

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