How many times have you heard this?

RetiredUSNChief said:

Some things you've just gotta take with a grain of salt.

I hear lots of people putting down Remington .22 LR Golden Bullets, for example.

Yet my family and I aren't having any problems with them to speak of in terms of accuracy and reliability.

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Yeah, those things depends mostly on the gun, not the ammo. I have had good luck with it in one gun, and bad luck in another. I'll say this though. I saw a critter shot with one of those cheap-o "junk" golden bullets, and it did a hell of a job. I sure as hell don't want to be hit with one.

You should shoot a hi-point carbine sometime, it'll change your opinion. They are solid guns.

However, you couldn't give me a hi-point pistol....the looks alone are enough to make me puke.

Theres the other side too... Taurus, rossi, and charter get a bad rap. But whats so great about a friggin colt anyways? If my life depended on it, I would take my service six over any colt, anyday.

Have recently bought 2 Taurus firearms-----so far so good.

Even if they don't work out, I really don't have much into them either.

You should shoot a hi-point carbine sometime, it'll change your opinion. They are solid guns.

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A HiPoint carbine is basically a first generation submachine gun minus the full-auto capability.

ALL of my objections to the HiPoints are directed at the handguns.

Of course there's really no reason for me to buy one of the carbines either, since I could buy a pistol caliber kit for my AR-15. If I didn't have one, and needed a pistol caliber carbine (which really don't), a HiPoint would be no better or worse of a choice than any other.

Not buying Hi-Point (or any of the Asian made imports) SHOULD be common sense for EVERYONE. THOSE are the companies I can't figure out how they stay in business. By now, the entire planet should know that Third World Poop Hole countries can't be trusted with quality manufacturing.

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HiPoint pistols appeal primarily to people with little firearms knowledge and even less money.

Rather than do some research and shop around for something better (P-1, Makarov, Star Model B, Smith M&P/Model 10, etc.) they buy whatever's cheapest.

I hear lots of people putting down Remington .22 LR Golden Bullets, for example.

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I don't know anything about the "Golden Bullets", but I don't know a SINGLE bullseye competitor who has anything good to say about Remington standard velocity target loads. I've seen so many failures to fire from it that I'd never consider it in a million years.

HiPoint pistols appeal primarily to people with little firearms knowledge and even less money.

Rather than do some research and shop around for something better (P-1, Makarov, Star Model B, Smith M&P/Model 10, etc.) they buy whatever's cheapest.

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It's fairly obvious that you've made your position known.

I've always bought more gun than I could afford at the time, it's painful but has served me well.

I admit to being perplexed by guys who will own multiple low priced guns instead of one gun of higher price.

Deanimator

A bit of thread drift but you did mention Remington .22LR ammo. I have yet to find any of Remington's rimfire products that were accurate or reliable. I couldn't even get it to work in one of their own rifles. At least I did have the presence of mind to unload most of it during the rimfire ammo shortage.

As far as Taurus. There are 2 of them here. 1 is a model 85 revolver my wife had when we met. Personally I don't care for snubbies but it is fine for what it is. The other is a PT 111 G2 I bought this year. I took Tauruses reputation into consideration before I bought but decided to gamble. It has worked fine & is a lot nicer than a $200 dollar pistol has any business being. My father-in-law has a Charter .38. Again I don't like snubbies but it is fine for what it is. To be honest the thing that concerned me most about Tauruses reputation was their reputation for poor customer service.

I almost bought a Hi-Point once just because a guy was selling them for $99 NIB at a gun show. The only thing that stopped me was my realizing I really didn't want it.

As for Remington Golden Bullet ammunition the reason I don't like it has nothing to do with hearsay. It stems from personal experience.

It is interesting that some say nothing less than a Les Baer or Wilson Combat 1911 is worth owning. Others say if it isn't S&W or Colt it isn't worthy. Some hate polymer others dislike any longgun that doesn't have a blued finish & wood furniture. Everyone has different tastes & income levels & a lot depends on where you are on the hill so to speak.

Personally I research the particular model of gun I am considering buying not just the manufacturer in general. I also tend to believe being an early adopter of any new design can be a bad idea. I prefer to wait until things are in the hands of the general public a while & watch for posts of others experiences. We all make our choices & take our chances. I do try to learn from the experiences of others but sometimes we have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I have a 1980's Rossi revolver, the internals looked like they have been filed out of soap chunks. Just like my 1970's Colt Detective Special. Those late model Colts and those 80's Rossi's had file to fit parts. Colts always were file to fit. The internals on older Colts were quite precise, just a couple of licks with a file, and the part fitted. Pre WW2 Colts are very well made, 50's stuff good, 60's stuff OK, 1970's + Colts are crap. Colt owners decided to milk the Corporation for all the money they could get, did not re invest in equipment, the older machines kept wearing out, and the parts given to the fitter required more and more hand filing. Both the later Colts and the 80's Rossi's show huge amounts of filing, indicating grossly oversized parts requiring a lot of hand filing to make them fit. However, a 2005 ish Taurus, the internals are just as nicely machined and as well finished as a S&W. I called Taurus, they own Rossi. Taurus spent hundreds of millions updating their production line with modern machinery. Both Taurus and Rossi use modern CNC machines on the production line, so their current firearms are quite well made. Colt dropped their revolver line back in the 80's, if not early 90's. Colt kept on using old equipment but made huge profits by being a sole source supplier of M4's. It took decades, but eventually, it became scandalous, the fact that the Army was "wedded" to Colt, and pressure was brought to end the Colt monopoly with the Army. Colt lost their government contracts, and now are in bankruptcy.


ROSSI HISTORY AND BACKGROUND INFORMATION

http://www.rossiusa.com/history.cfm

At the same time, Forjas Taurus, S.A. purchased the rights and the equipment to manufacture Rossi handguns. Taurus manufactures three models of .38 Special revolvers and four models of .357 Magnum revolvers under contract with Rossi. Revolvers sold by BrazTech with the Rossi name are manufactured in a brand new facility owned by Taurus in SaoLeopoldo, Brazil. Much of the tooling and many of the machines were acquired from Rossi during negotiations between the companies.

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This little Taurus 38 Special is a great revolver.

I also don't see the appeal in Kimber 1911's.....a $1000+ pistol that needs a 500 round break in?

A co-worker of mine bought one last year and it is hit and miss with JHP's, has feeding issues. Can't use a $1000 pistol for personal defense....wow!

Its also been inferred that the Colt 6920 is superior to the S&W Sport. I bought the Sport for $300 less money and its a solid AR-15.

A bit of thread drift but you did mention Remington .22LR ammo. I have yet to find any of Remington's rimfire products that were accurate or reliable. I couldn't even get it to work in one of their own rifles. At least I did have the presence of mind to unload most of it during the rimfire ammo shortage.

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Back in the '90s, a couple of friends went halves on a case. It was SO bad that they returned it to Remington. With the refund on the shipping, they actually turned a profit. Of course they'd have rather had the ammunition.

Now I buy NOTHING but CCI Standard Velocity.

I bought a case of Aguila Standard Velocity from Graf's while I was in Missouri for a college reunion. While it was accurate and usually went bang, my High Standard didn't like it. It was on the outside edge of case diameter and had so much lube on the bullet, that sometimes it wouldn't chamber until heat from the chamber melted the lube. Now I only use it in my Smith Model 17.

A co-worker of mine bought one last year and it is hit and miss with JHP's, has feeding issues. Can't use a $1000 pistol for personal defense....wow!

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USUALLY that's a magazine issue. I had similar issues with the seven round magazines that came with my Citadel. They'd HOLD seven, but would only feed [albeit perfectly] with seven. McCormicks fixed the problem completely.

Deanimator said:

I don't know anything about the "Golden Bullets", but I don't know a SINGLE bullseye competitor who has anything good to say about Remington standard velocity target loads. I've seen so many failures to fire from it that I'd never consider it in a million years.

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I don't know a thing about "bullseye competitor" shooting, either.

Are there standards/restrictions on the ammunition for this? I wouldn't consider Remington standard to be a "match grade" ammo.

Equally annoying to me are the fanboys who will not admit that any company - USA, Asian, or whatever, can occasionally turn out lemons. I don't own a Hi Point, but I would consider buying one just to see. I can't argue with a lifetime guarantee. While I appreciate the aesthetics of more expensive firearms, I think it's OK that there are weapons for those who cannot afford top of the line guns. We all have the right to self defense.

I still have a Rossi .38 revolver I bought for my wife to use in the early 1980's and it still shoots just fine. I also have a Taurus .45 pistol that I carry in my work van for emergency purposes, which shoots just fine. I try to keep it warmed up at least three times per year. Remington Golden Bullets are not my favorite but my family has burned an awful lot of them over the years shooting targets, pop cans, and prairie dogs. They do seem to have a few more FTF's than CCI's but they have not been across the board crap. In my experience, people who have a "my way or the highway" attitude are not much fun to be around anyway.......

There is a tendency for some to think their opinions are more important than all others.

Then there are the time tested voices of experience.

Then there are these dang threads that bring them both out!

Oh, well. This is still the U.S. of A. so far! If a person buys product X, and conducts themselves safely, and it brings them satisfaction/protection, who am I to look down on them.

BTW, I have, or have had Charter Arms, Hi-Point Carbines, Bersas, $1200 Kimber, Lee (not the jeans ) etc. Not a complaint with them, a couple just didn't fit the bill.

xxjumbojimboxx said:

Theres the other side too... Taurus, rossi, and charter get a bad rap. But whats so great about a friggin colt anyways? If my life depended on it, I would take my service six over any colt, anyday.

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I've got a Colt that is 85 years old and locks up as tight, and shoots as tight, as anything in the gun store today. That's what's so great about a friggin' Colt.

(That said, the Security Six was probably my favorite handgun of all time.)

My two cents:

Lee; I love Lee products. One of my favorite, of the seven presses on my bench, is a Lee Breechlock, but when I load cartridge cases .45 Colt or larger, or any bottle neck cartridges, I use my RCBS RockChucker. It's mass makes resizing those larger cartridges easier. Every tool has it's place.

Rossi: I used to like Rossi revolvers, then they got owned by Taurus. See below.

Taurus: I have a Taurus PT22 that I've had a number of years. It is amazingly accurate. It will digest any brand of .22 ammo. HV, Subsonic, it'll even feed shorts if you only load three in the magazine. One day the nylon buffer fell apart. The firearm won't work without it. Jams with the slide to the rear every shot. Part's not covered under warranty. I call Taurus and order 10 replacements, as they're only a dollar each, and the shipping is eight dollars.
A month goes by, no part. I call. They're out of stock and on back order. Two months, three months, four months. On the fifth month, they tell me that the part arrived, but they're too busy with an inventory to send me my part.:banghead: I got my part a month after that.
I'll never purchase another product warranted by Taurus.


Hi Pernt: Not made for constant range use, but they go bang when they're supposed to. Brings self defense to people who otherwise could not afford it. Rumored to have the best customer service in the industry, probably because they get lots of practice. I'd own a carbine, but have no use for their pistols.

The Alaskan said:

I've got a Colt that is 85 years old and locks up as tight, and shoots as tight, as anything in the gun store today. That's what's so great about a friggin' Colt.

(That said, the Security Six was probably my favorite handgun of all time.)

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i guess i have to concede to that. I had a police + that was from i think the 30's that locked up tighter then any gun I've had still you kinda made my point with the Ruger. I love all of my ruger six series revolvers. I think there's something to be said for something that performs equal to or better than its more expensive competition. The ruger revolvers are just that.

bugsbunny45 said:

Is it just me or do some companies get really bad press for no good reason.

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Very rarely is there no reason for the bad press. Virtually al companies deserve their reputations.

Don't buy Rossi or Tarus stuff it's cheap Brazilian stuff. You need S&W
Oh don't buy HiPoint it's junk.
Oh you looking for trouble if you get a Lee press they are junk ,Get you a Rcbs.

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I've never owned a Rossi. I've owned two Tauri, a model 94 .22lr revolver and a 709 slim 9mm auto. The 709 is my EDC, the revolver got traded after less than 50 rounds through it.

I've owned Hi Points, both a .45 pistol and a 9mm carbine. The carbine could be great with a few changes. As it stands, it's merely good. The pistol, well it was my first handgun. I really didn't know better.

Kinda funny when you hear this many times the people never owned or shot the stuff they are telling you about.

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Word of mouth. I've never seen, held or shot a Korth revolver, but I'm aware it has a reputation for being one of the finest revolvers made by man. I've never fired a Jennings or a Lorcin, but I'm aware they have a reputation for being some of the worst handguns ever made by man.

I don't need to shoot a Korth to realize it's a fine revolver. Nor do I need to risk my fingers to realize a Lorcin is a piece of junk.

First hand experience is helpful, but word of mouth is also useful educationally.

I also thought for a moment if something is so bad how does the company that sells it stay in business. Hummm..

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Plenty of bad products out there from big name companies. General Motors, for instance, has faced how many recalls for inferior products? Volkswagen just got nailed. Children's toys and car seats and strollers and cribs have been inferior and defective, yet the companies that make them are still around. Smith and Wesson has been bought and sold so many times since their inception as a company. Remington, Marlin, Winchester, Colt.... all have changed ownership a number of times. The rollout of the Remington R51, for example. It could have been a great gun. It turned out to be widely recognized as a piece of crap. A few made it out the door that owners were able to get to work. Remington deserves it's reputation. So does Hi Point.

Do you shoot or use a product others say is hummm. Crap. Lol

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Probably.

I’m a Smith & Wesson fan, but I also have one of just about every manufacturer the OP named and then a few more.
Rossi – 410 shotgun
Taurus – PT1911 in 38 Super
Hi-Point – 9mm Carbine
Kel Tec – P-11 9mm
Rohm – 38 Special derringer
I still have all of them because I’ve never had a problem with them. Now if you want to throw Beretta into the mix, I sure wish I could get my money out of that POS.

Never had any contact with any Lee products so I won’t comment there, but there sure are a lot of people who like them.

Not buying Hi-Point (or any of the Asian made imports) SHOULD be common sense for EVERYONE. THOSE are the companies I can't figure out how they stay in business. By now, the entire planet should know that Third World Poop Hole countries can't be trusted with quality manufacturing.

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Are you implying that Hi Point is an Asian made import?
Are you implying that Rock Island Armory, an ISO-9001 certified manufacturing facility is junk?
Or Norinco?
Or Howa?
Or Miroku?

Those Asian made imports?

What third world "poop hole" country is currently importing anything into the US?

I mean, come on. The United States can hardly manufacture anything anymore, and we're a 1st world country. Virtually all products are manufactured in 3rd world countries these day.