How many times have you heard this?

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I buy things I like. All of those things have someone out there talking negative about them. You have to do your own homework and separate the wheat from the chaff with many of those reviews. Many are made up of opinions based on what someone has heard or read more than first hand knowledge. Sure some manufacturers make more lemons than others, but none are lemon free. Pay your money for what you want and hope all turns out well.
 
As I get older I realize something I heard is true. People who are unhappy with a product tend to tell everybody on the other hand the happy users dont.
 
Bugs, In your last post You have offered the only sunshine in three pages of gun/manufacturer/buyer and individual bashing. I'll bet the big O would get a kick out of the "solidarity" of owners on these pages. There are firearms I buy and those I do not but to condemn a company because some of their products are controversial is a little harsh ( I guess I am guilty of that in the past). Besides contrary to a previous post on Remington R1's the two I have digested many rounds of .45 without a whimper and put nice round holes in the center of the target when I give a little help.
 
Ibmikey said:
Besides contrary to a previous post on Remington R1's the two I have digested many rounds of .45 without a whimper and put nice round holes in the center of the target when I give a little help.
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Oops, that was me and I meant the R51 9mm that was an abysmal failure. The R1 1911 is actually a pretty good gun. Edited that post for clarity.
 
I don't know a thing about "bullseye competitor" shooting, either.

Are there standards/restrictions on the ammunition for this? I wouldn't consider Remington standard to be a "match grade" ammo.
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  1. The target is a dead piece of paper. There's no need to kill it, so there's no point to using high speed loads that provide nothing but increased recoil which hurts scores in the timed and rapid fire stages.
  2. I shoot a High Standard. It's designed around standard velocity target loads. Use enough high speed ammunition and you'll crack the frame.
  3. They'd like you to believe that their standard velocity is "match" ammunition like CCI Standard Velocity and Green Tag, Ely and RWS. It might be... if you could get it to shoot.
 
Generally speaking, with guns, knives, and tools, you get what you pay for. I have had second-tier firearms that performed well but were not finely made, but I have had others, like Taurus and Charter, that had significant problems. I have also heard a lot over the years about problems with some of the second-tier stuff, but the talk of problems with Colt, Smith, Browning, Ruger, etc. is far less. I tend to think that problems with top-tier guns and "boutique guns," such as Kimber, are more flukes that anyone is going to have rather than problems that occur regularly. I would go with a major, reputable manufacturer. If you are on a tight budget and want to purchase a second-tier gun, I'd consider saving and scraping a little longer and buying from a more reputable manufacturer.
Now, that said, my gun shop guy is selling RIA 1911's by the score with no complaints or problems. They ain't pretty, but they function well and go bang every time. Do your research and don't buy the first thing you "like.":)
PS Also, learn about the customer service with these manufacturers. If you do need to send it back, some are far more customer friendly than others.
 
Deanimator said:
Rather than do some research and shop around for something better (P-1, Makarov, Star Model B, Smith M&P/Model 10, etc.) they buy whatever's cheapest.
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P-1: $340
Bulgarian Makarov: $300
Star Model B: $269
S&W Model 10: $319
Hi Point 9mm: $125

That's not a small difference to someone working low pay jobs. Someone making minimum wage could pay for a new Hi Point with less than a week's wages. That's not true for any of the used guns on your list.

From everything I've read Hi Point handguns are reliable (go bang every time), and accurate (hit what they are pointed at), they are just laughably ugly.

I don't own one because I can't get over the laugh reflex, and frankly I can afford better, but they seem like a good choice for a lot of people.
 
That's not a small difference to someone working low pay jobs. Someone making minimum wage could pay for a new Hi Point with less than a week's wages. That's not true for any of the used guns on your list.
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And if your ONLY criterion is price, the Hi Point wins hands down.

That avoids the question of whether price SHOULD be your ONLY criterion.

I don't think it should.

Pure blowback 9x19mm (and .45acp) guns are few and far between... and SHOULD be.

Most previous designs have gone with 1,000,000 pound recoil springs. This one goes with a slide that weighs more than some other entire guns. Neither one of those things makes for a good pistol.

I would MUCH rather wait a little longer and save up for a Star or a P-1 than buy something that proves yet AGAIN that you can have your own opinions, but not your own laws of physics.

All of this of course presumes that the Hi Point works. I see people claim that they do, and won't presume to call them liars. I, on the other hand have seen the ones where I shoot mostly not be able to get through a magazine without a jam.

But again, I wouldn't ban Hi Points. Neither will I lie to myself or to others and claim that they're a good design, or even that they embody a fundamentally sound operating principle for the ammunition which they employ.
 
I do NOT buy guns from Blackthorne/Vulcan/Hesse, Jennings, Phoenix, Raven, Lorcin, Jimenez, Davis, Bryco, etc., and I never had personal experience with them.:evil:
 
I am anxious for the revised R51 to be released having missed the first opportunity to inspect/ fire the weapon. I personally have no desire to condemn the product or manufacturer when they quickly recalled a defective product for research and hopefully replacement.
 
"I'll bet the big O would get a kick out of the "solidarity" of owners on these pages"
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LOL, yeeeeeeeaaaah......and car guys never argue over Vettes and Mustangs? Computer folks never would debate on which is better, the PC or Mac....would they? Opinions never get passionate regarding such topics...do they?!?! ;) To somehow assume gun owners should be united as to what they shoot or their opinions of certain companies is sort of silly and does nothing to account for indvidiual tastes or experiences. I think its rather silly to think "the big O" (always thought of that as more of a bedroom term than an idnetifier for our leader, myself) or anyone else would assume gun owners are a universal force that agrees on everything and would never debate among themselves.
 
I didn't know that Lee loading equipment was considered junk. That is what I have been using for years without a problem. I guess I better get rid of it before it starts causing problems?
 
I think it is important for us as consumers to warn others about bad guns. If you get bad Customer service and a gun that is dangerous or built incorrectly, I appreciate you telling me about it.
Some things you'll notice right away, some you wont see until you get to the range, but warning the rest of us is a polite thing to do.

That being said, if you're trusting your life to a Hi Point, you have reached a low point.
 
I have a Hi-Point 45. Clunky but it goes bang every time. I have or had 4 taurus firearms. Failure rate of 50% but then I did shoot the .41 mag ALOT. It went back 3 times to be repaired and finally I had to fix it myself. Final trip to repair and they said scrap which was BS. The transfer bar broke and I guess they had no parts because it went out of production. The .357 mag and .22 pistols don't have a lot of rounds through them. I will not buy another Taurus.
 
Averageman said:
I think it is important for us as consumers to warn others about bad guns. If you get bad Customer service and a gun that is dangerous or built incorrectly, I appreciate you telling me about it.
Some things you'll notice right away, some you wont see until you get to the range, but warning the rest of us is a polite thing to do.

That being said, if you're trusting your life to a Hi Point, you have reached a low point.
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So what is a bad gun? The Ruger Sp101 that went kaboom (as documented by a thread on this board) or maybe all the Rugers that get "sent back" for whatever issue? How about all those semi's that require a "fluff and buff" just to function reliably?

Gun quality is subjective based on experience of the owner, cost of the firearm and a whole lot of emotional issues as well.
 
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