still carry the .45?

I too carry a .45. I just like the particular gun I carry, and it just so happens to be a .45. Period.

now that aside, I started one of these type threads not long ago and it was a disaster. Very controversial thing you have brought up here. I wish you luck my friend.

I'm not LE, so the protracted firefight scenario in the linked article isn't really relevant to me. I'm not going to be chasing down bank robbers. I pay taxes so someone else will do that.

Short answer: 9mm works. .45 works. .40 works. Carry what you feel like carrying.

Somebody buy this man ^^^ a drink

Couldnt have said it better, they all work and thats that.

Why did the officer leave the vehicle in the first place?

Sorry I know this doesnt address your question about carrying a 45, but wouldnt a better tactic have been to just use the vehicle he was in to stop the bad guy?

A .45 can knock a man 20 feet backwards with one shot whilst a 9mm simply irritates him?

This isn't an issue of caliber, it's an issue of magazine capacity.

The officer whose story was told in the Ayoob article switched solely to increase the amount of ammunition he carried on duty.

To turn this into 9mm vs. .45 is a mistake. And as an armed civilian, one has no responsibility to take down a criminal fleeing a bank robbery.

As for the question of why the officer didn't stay in his car and try to use it as a weapon, refer back to the article.

Regardless of caliber used, I'm glad that gun battle was not in my neighborhood. I just don't see the need for carrying 150 rounds for a civil defense "what if" scenario as documented in the article. Yes, I see that these situations exist but they are rare. This would not make me change to 9MM. Heck it might be argued that 22LR would be a good choice if you need to be justified in carrying 200+ rounds all day long. The article also proved that you need to hit your target more often.

mgmorden said:

Short answer: 9mm works. .45 works. .40 works. Carry what you feel like carrying.

Click to expand...

This right here is what I took away from it. If someone can be hit in the heart and lungs with a 45, then is a 9mm going to do any better? I doubt it.

Personally, I carry an XDs with a 5 or 6 round magazine, and am comfortable with that. If I'll be in the city at night, I may drop a 7 round magazine in my pocket. I carry Hornady TAP 230 gr +p ammo in it. Not sure they make that ammo anymore.

Why? Because that's the gun I shoot well, and though there are many finer argument points about which is better in regards to penetration, capacity, shootablity, I always come back to the notion that if for some reason a 45 fails to expand, it is going to make a larger hole than a 9mm, 40, or 357 sig that failed to expand.

My lifestyle keeps risk to a minimum. My situational awareness mitigates risk. I am not a cop. I am not a vigilante. And I am not willing to carry 150 rounds of ammo around with me, as I believe it is completely unnecessary.

The officer in this story was a target purely because he was an officer.

So keep carrying you 45 if that's what you shoot well. A gun you can hit with consistently is far more effective than any gun you can't.

If anyone really thinks carrying large amounts of ammo is that vital to an every day citizen, I recommend that in stead of spending money on a new gun and practice ammo, save your money. Then split it. Put half of it in the bank to save for moving expenses, and the other half should be spent on some new dress attire for job interviews in a safer place. Spend the training time to learn a new gun on working over your resume.

But ... but ... but ... if the .45acp bullet hits the guy you're shooting at on the tip of his little finger, his whole arm will be ripped off.

Sorry ... couldn't resist.

Uh oh, one more ...



Bad GBExpat, Bad!



I carry a .45acp (XDs, usually) ... and sometimes a 9x19 (PF9, usually) ... and sometimes a 9x17 (P3AT, usually).

It seems like the end result is something we all already knew...pistol caliber's generally suck. Projectiles are always going to perform the best when given the oomph of more powder and a longer barrel.

Like the other poster said, 9mm, .40, and .45 all work. I carry all three calibers and then some.

Generally no more than 10-20 rounds of .40 on my person at the most. Sometimes nothing more than 5 rounds of .38 special.

I CCW the Kimber Ultra Carry II in 45 ACP or the Ruger LCP 9s in 9mm. LOL! Not too worried about how this debate turns out!

I would argue that a person in those same circumstances who went into that fight with a Glock 17 would likely be doing the exact opposite and moving to a Glock 21 with the belief that the caliber was inadequate. (Its how our human minds work. If X failed for whatever reason we want to try / think Y will be better).

Some dedicated criminal got shot a ton of times but was able to still bring the fight. Happens all the time. Happens in wars with rifles for that matter.

I personally don't think the outcome of this story would have been different if it had been a 9mm or .40 or .45. Now maybe a solid couple of 00 Buck would have made a bit of impact but handguns.........nah.

Just my opinion.

At the end of the day its all about personal risk evaluation and figuring out the best balance.
What are the chances of getting into an armed confrontation?
What are the chances that confrontation requires discharge of the arm?
What are the chances that confrontation requires more then a few rounds?
What are the chances that confrontation requires a reload?
What are the chances that confrontation requires multiple reloads?
What are the chances that after multiple reloads the assailant is still a real threat?
etc.
etc.

More ammo is always better of course but you have to weigh that against other factors. Weight, convenience, cost whatever. Sure I could carry a Glock 17 with six +2 magazines and a Glock 26 on my ankle and frankly in the extremely unlikely event I would ever get into a violent conflict I would probably be thinking I was WOEFULLY UNDER ARMED.

Carry what gives you the confidence of the fighting mindset. You have to believe what you are using will work and your ability to use it properly and effectively. You then have to come to terms with the fact that a gun fight is a FIGHT. A FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE not a GUNfight. So you better be prepared to kick, spit, club, claw, punch, bite, stab, clobber with a rock, bitchslap.....whatever is necessary as your tools may not work no matter how good they are or how much you have.

Me, personally. I feel more like the first shot will be followed by a lot of screaming like a little girl and me running the hell away thinking. "brave sir robin ran away!!!"

All I am saying is read accounts of combat through history from the middle ages, to World War II, to Law Enforcement to the roaring twenties. Guile, planning, mindset and will win fights......not guns. not knives. People have taken out belt fed machine gun nests with 1911s.

and at the end of the day.......sometimes it just isn't in the cards for you. Even the best of the best of finest of the few have been cut down by bad luck or random bullet not even intended for them. Such is life..........hence you avoid violence at all costs.

My two cents.

..........and 9mm is .45, just set to stun.

I kid, I kid. I poke de bear.

Modern JHP ammo in 9mm Para, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP all have adequate penetration and expansion. An expanded .45 JHP will make a slightly bigger hole with a slightly greater chance of damaging a critical vessel than a .40 will and the .40 will make a slightly bigger hole than the 9mm.

How often will the diameter difference turn a non-lethal wound into a lethal one? I suspect very few times, and even if the larger projectile does result in a lethal wound, it may not be incapacitating quickly enough to make a difference.

I have a couple of different home defense pistols in different locations. One is a full-sized SIG P320 .45 ACP with a 10+1 rd capacity. The other is a Beretta 92 FS loaded with a Mec-Gar plus 2 magazine with 20+1 rd capacity.

I don't like .45 ACP in a compact pistol partly because of ammunition limitation and partly due to potential difficulties shorter slides and recoil springs have cycling the .45 ACP round.

I don't know how much can be learned from an anecdotal incident like this. I think you could potentially substitute any handgun calibers for the 9mm and the .45 and the result could potentially have been the same.

Trooper Mark Coates shot his killer 5 times in the chest with .357 Magnum Winchester 145gr Silvertips and did not incapacitate him. He then killed Coates with a single .22LR shot to the aorta. I don't think that argues in favor of .22LR over .357 Magnum, however.

Among other things, I carry a Citadel 3.5 CS 3.5" M1911.

I'm very happy with it, and while I also carry a Glock 19 with Winchester White Box 147gr JHPs, I prefer .45acp 200gr. JHPs, preferably Hornady.

I have both calibers and still carry a .45 as my primary. Why? Simply because it's what I've always shot best. And my chosen personal weapon is my most accurate. Make the first shot count, and the chances that you'll need more begin to diminish.

As a lifelong hunter, I don't take the effect of hydrodynamic shock lightly, especially when an animal (or opponent for that matter) may be high on adrenaline or other, more artificial substances. The stun effect, combined with a dramatic loss of blood pressure is the only way to incapacitate someone instantly, unless you manage to hit the central nervous system (spine/brain).

My carry gun is a Para 16/40, rechambered to 10mm and two spare mags of the hottest 160-180gr factory loads I can get my hands on. Some may say it's overkill but I'm very familiar with the 1911 platform even with heavy recoil, and if I'll ever have to draw a gun in a self defence situation again, I want to make sure I have all the firepower I can carry on my person.

not the caliber

couldn't help reading above. In todays world of ammo,JIC u haven't noticed
most defensive ammo has no velocity, check it out before a comment. I first
noticed this 2 weeks ago this one man about critical defense, 9mm jhp 1005fps.
I checked other ammo in 40, a 180 with 1100,45 is 975.
My win 9mm practice 115 is 1200 rnj. My 40, 9, 10mm corbon next to me he fired my 9 at 1450 almost dropped my gun. His ammo wouldn't strip a round
from my M8.
Cop shoot a few days ago on tv cop was about 15 feet no more,hit the guy 5 times, was running away from the cop,kept running with 5 in him cop stopped
was beat,perp fell from tired was still moving when ambulance came

I cannot think of any place on the Human body that you can shoot with a .45 and have it kill them....that wouldnt also kill them if they were hit with a 9mm.

with handguns.....So long as your ammo can consistently, and reliably achieve deep penetration, it is my belief that caliber is largely irrelevant.

for me, capacity is a bigger deal that caliber.

Years ago I read a hillarious line that made a clever play on the mythical statuses of both the .45acp round, and Chuck Norris.
It went:

"Chuck Norris once got shot in the pinky with a .45acp......and lived!!"

MIL-DOT said:

Years ago I read a hillarious line that made a clever play on the mythical statuses of both the .45acp round, and Chuck Norris.
It went:

"Chuck Norris once got shot in the pinky with a .45acp......and lived!!"

Click to expand...

I can see that happening. He is Chuck Norris.

I vote 15 of 9mm over 7 of 45 any day. I own a 1911 and a Glock 19. I just had to have the 1911.

FYI, Chuck Norris was bitten by a water moccasin while filming in Dallas one time. After three days of misery, the snake died.